The Snows of Kilimanjaro

[starrwriter]

"The Snows of Kilimanjaro," one of Ernest Hemingway's best short stories, is attached in a .zip file for members to read at their leisure. I would like to discuss this story later with whoever finds it interesting enough to exchange comments.

[subterranean]

I haven't read this book but I once listened to this story telling by William S. Burroughs in title of "Where He Was Going", which is based on "The Snows of Kilimanjaro". There are several quatation in the story and the title, 'where he was going", is infact one of them.

[starrwriter]

I haven't read this book but I once listened to this story telling by William S. Burroughs in title of "Where He Was Going", which is based on "The Snows of Kilimanjaro". There are several quatation in the story and the title, 'where he was going", is infact one of them.
It's a short story, not a book. Where Harry (the main character) was going in the airplane is one of the major points of the story. Read it and we will discuss.

[subterranean]

Ok, I'll try to read it. In the meantime, here's the transcript from Burroughs' story-telling CD. Do you think it is really based on The Snows of Kilimanjaro?

[starrwriter]

Ok, I'll try to read it. In the meantime, here's the transcript from Burroughs' story-telling CD. Do you think it is really based on The Snows of Kilimanjaro?
The next to last sentence may or may not be a vague reference to "Kilimanjaro," but the rest seems to have no connection. Burroughs' writing is so arcane it's usually hard to tell what he means with any degree of certainty. Bill liked to get stoned often, as you know.

[subterranean]

Quick thought came in to my mind when I read the story briefly: is Harry the resemblace of Hemingway himself? I mean there are many Harry's critierias that fit Hemingway's, like being a writer, having many female lovers, love of alcohol, once lived in Paris, love to shoot, and travelling alot. And Harry's thought about how money influenced him and his talent as a writer pretty much sound like Hemingway's opinion.

[starrwriter]

Quick thought came in to my mind when I read the story briefly: is Harry the resemblace of Hemingway himself? I mean there are many Harry's critierias that fit Hemingway's, like being a writer, having many female lovers, love of alcohol, once lived in Paris, love to shoot, and travelling alot. And Harry's thought about how money influenced him and his talent as a writer pretty much sound like Hemingway's opinion.
There's no doubt in my mind that Harry is Hemingway. For one thing, Hemingway married a rich woman for his second wife and didn't do much good writing during that marriage. Almost all of Hemingway's writing is autobiographical to some degree and "Kilimanjaro" is practically a personal memoir. Ernie also developed an obsessive fear of (and fascination with) death after he was blown up by an artillery shell in World War I. He had an out-of-body experience while lying badly wounded in the shell crater and he thought his soul was looking at his dead body.

[subterranean]

What's the snow refer to? Death?

[baddad]

I'm a big admirer of Big H. I'll get back to you when I've the time. I hope I don't miss the discussion........

I once considered Hemingway my target, my competition. I never imagined I'd write as well as he, but I wished to at least compete.

[starrwriter]

What's the snow refer to? Death?
As much as Hemingway claimed he hated readers and critics finding symbolism in his writing, he certainly left himself wide open to it in this particular story.

I think the mountain symbolizes death because that's where Harry goes in the airplane during his dying delirium. The snow has a sort of double meaning in the mysterious preface. It symbolizes death like the whole mountain, but also the condition of being in a place where you don't belong. The leopard froze to death because it was out of place in the cold temperature of the high elevation. Harry was an author who was out of place married to a rich woman and involved in chic society at the expense of his writing.

Of course, all of this is just my interpretation. Every fiction story has the meaning the author intended (and known only to him) and the meaning each reader takes from the story. Which is the "real" meaning? All of them.

[subterranean]

I was thinking about death because in the story there are these lines which somewhat relates snow(or mountain to be more exact) with death. One is when Harry pictured in his mind about snows in the mountain in Bulgaffa and the old man sayz "no, that's not snow. It's too early for snow", and he and the girls died in the winter. And the other is the wounded deserter in the Gauertal who knocked in during snow time, though it's not clear whether he died or not. So, maybe the snows in Kilimanjaro was meant to be his (death).

[Irrish]

Am going to read the short story today (have a collection of short stories of Hemingway, a great book I've failed too really look at honestly)...will give my 2 cents afterwards :)

[wtwt5237]

As much as Hemingway claimed he hated readers and critics finding symbolism in his writing, he certainly left himself wide open to it in this particular story.

And also in the novel the old man and the sea. But in fact I admit I find it hard to catch the exact symbol of the sea and the old man and of course the fish.
Could me give me some ideas about what they really mean?

[Wilhelm]

Ok WtWt5237, I'll give my view on the old man and the sea.
First, i guess you shouldn't be too obsessed with trying to grasp symbolic meanings etc. It's rather straight forward. The old man, as I see it, is just a man at the end of his life. It seems his glory days are more or less over. Still he refuses to give in. He battles his downfall ('death' if you want) in the form of the wild ocean and of course the marlin/fish. The struggle leads to personal success, but not to acknowledgement in society, because he is just not part of that society anymore. As I said, times have changed, his glory days are over. Nobody but the boy is aware of the battle he has fought.
That's basically it, I believe. There are images you could go into, like some biblical symbols, but this is not the place to do that.
If you want to take the discussion further, I would suggest to open a new thread, because we don't want to ruin this one :)

[JJLuke]

I remember something harry said, it went along the lines of it's better to have something to write about than to be the best writer with nothing to write.

[wtwt5237]

Hi, Wilhelm. I have just opened a new thread 'the old man and the sea'. Please join the discussion! And everyone here is welcome!