Christianity and Political Philosophy

[ThatIndividual]

It is generally accepted as axiomatic that Christians are Pro-Life. (Of course, there are exceptions scattered about. We will ignore those rare cases.) This is quite easily understood. Nothing very complicated here.

It is also quite generally accepted by Christians and secularists alike that freedom is one of the features, if not the feature, that is of the highest worth in a democratic society. This is the reason America was founded. Our forefathers felt that it was only right that people should have the necessary freedoms to shape their own lives and make their own decisions.

Thirdly, it is accepted that these freedoms must be restricted. Very few Americans are anarchists, and I doubt that even one Christian in America is in favor of anarchy. Wherefore, lines must be drawn in order to determine which acts are to be socially acceptable, and which are to be socially unacceptable; the former, while perhaps even frowned upon, legal, the latter, frowned upon and punishable by the justice system.

This is the question. Are there any Christians out there who feel that, while abortion is wrong, it is also wrong to carve out laws that determine whether or not another person should be able to have one?


Christians base their opposition to abortion on their Christian values. If someone wants an abortion, then they apparently do not already share the same Christian values. My point is that there is no profit for a Christian, or for Jesus Christ or God, in forcing those values on non-Christians. Convert them to Christianity, and let them choose themselves, and there will be no abortions. The Christians are imposing their values on the non-Christians in the form of laws, which was the reason we left England and came here in the first place.

See my point? What's the point of the law, even for Christians? Are there any Christians who are against abortion, but still feel that it should be legal? Knowing that people will get them anyway... Knowing that making it legal makes it safer, and in effect, saves lives, are there any Christians who are for letting people choose for themselves rather than forcing by law?

Discuss.

[MiSaNtHrOpE]

God or no god, abortion is a "necessary evil" so long as we have rape, risk of death during childbirth, or lack of information concerning contraceptives. If you dont want abortions to exist in society, take care of those above. If you oveturn Roe v. Wade, problems will increase, such as infanticide and baby-abandonment. If those exist, how would your god look at us then?

[Countess]

I totally understand you, but I'm a blathering hypocrite in this particular case and thus am not granted the right to have an opinion.

I will, however, equivocate the example you provide and say while I believe homosexuality is wrong, I think homosexuals should have civil rights - even civil unions - but they should stay out-of-the-church.

Jesus said render to Caesar what is Caesars and render to God what is Gods, which means he recognized the separation of church and state.

Abortion is a horse of a different color for many Christians, however, because we aren't talking about two consenting adults but one adult and the other a helpless fetus "with no voice". Christians feel the obligation to be that voice.

I hope that helps,

Countess

[MiSaNtHrOpE]

Can't the mother take care of herself? That same "obligation" has caused more harm than good: Crusades, the Holocaust, etc.

Yes homosexuals should stay out of the church. Who stays where they are not wanted? What was intended to be an accepting mentality has become an exclusionary elitist cult.

[Logos]

"Are there any Christians out there who feel that, while abortion is wrong, it is also wrong to carve out laws that determine whether or not another person should be able to have one?"

This is just a reminder to everyone, please don't get defensive, discussion of politics isn't allowed and this topic is walking that fine line, just wanted to mention that :)

[ThatIndividual]

Misanthrope, don't get me wrong... It's not my God; I'm no Christian. Not by a long shot. (Just wanted to clear that up.)

[Psycheinaboat]

I still tend to doubt that the Christian who leans toward a pro-choice philosophy is as rare as you think.

A couple years ago I read some statistics that showed that 80-some percent of Americans claimed faith in a god. The majority of those believers claimed to belong to one of three major religions.

All the statistics, like the Gallop polls, I come across concerning abortion have shown America as being split almost equally on the subject. It varies a little, but considering the margin of error, it appears to be an almost complete 50/50 split, and it has been that way for more than ten years. Also, the last information I read on the subject showed that even among those who considered themselves pro-life, the majority of them felt that it should be legally left up to the individual woman to make the final decision.

There may be newer information available now, but these stats I refer to are fairly new. I am sorry for not providing links to back this up... you'll have to look it up yourself, baby. ;)

[Pendragon]

I will make only one point. The One who said "Thou shalt not kill" ( the usual basis for Christian's stand on abortion) ALSO said "Judge not, that you be not judged." So as a Christian, it is not my place to say if another is right or wrong, that is for God alone to decide. How I personally feel, how I interpert the scripture, let me live by what I believe. But it is not up to me to force others to do the same. Some Christians may think I'm crawfishing on this. No. I am facing the whole of the truth, not just the part that suits me. Christians, take the Bible as it is, as a whole. Some may step on your own toes. If it does, then you need to change. :wave:

[ThatIndividual]

I'm quite glad to hear you say that, Pendragon. Kudos to you, friend!

Psyche, I think that you may be right about the statistics, but I've never even looked at any statistics. I was going merely by the fact that I've never met a pro-choice Christian. I've known many Christians, spent quite some time belonging to a Church even, and spent lots of time in debate in college classrooms during various courses concerning ethics, both from a religious as well as a rational (meaning secular -- not to imply that religious is irrational) standpoint. Never have I ever met a Christian who isn't pro-life. Again, however, I'm sure they exist.

My other point is that all politicians from the Religious right (conservs.) are anti-abortion. That's because they try and identify with the typical anti-abortion religious voter. I know nothing of statistics, I speak only from experience. However, I agree with you that this is not a universal truth -- that is, that Christians are pro-lifers. (baby : ;) )

[ThatIndividual]

Pendragon, also, I meant to tell you that I nominated you as one of my (3) nominees for Member of the Year in the General Chat forum. The reasons are listed there. I only mention this because you just made even more proud and content with my choice. :thumbs_up

[Outlander]

Originally posted by: ThatIndividual
I was going merely by the fact that I've never met a pro-choice Christian.

Now you have.
Considering what Pendragon said, it looks like you've met two.

Thou shalt not kill.
Judge not lest ye be Judged.

I don't agree with the killing of children, but I will not judge those who do it.

[Pendragon]

Now you have.
Considering what Pendragon said, it looks like you've met two.

Thou shalt not kill.
Judge not lest ye be Judged.

I don't agree with the killing of children, but I will not judge those who do it.Well, there was something else that always bothered me very badly. I do not in any way agree with the killing of children, just to clarify that. But judgement is God's place only. And when people in the name of Christianity rise up and actually KILL an abortion doctor, what ARE they thinking? And do any of them offer to provide a home for some frightened teen who is pregnant and doesn't know where to turn? Will they adopt the babies they prevent from being killed? Or is it all just a show? I've talked with unwed mothers before and it is often not an easy choice to make. I also grew up raised by a single parent, one of three children with a dad who never paid a dime in child support. It's a tough call sometimes, and I certainly am not going to be the judge that makes it.

[Scheherazade]

When you refer to it as 'killing of children', don't you think you are being judgemental enough?

[ThatIndividual]

What an excellent point!

[Logos]

You know what? If this topic is going to degenerate into discussion of `child murdering', which I think it most likely will, then I think that is quite enough.

This is a Literature Forum, with this specific area to `discuss Religious Texts'.

If you want to start another topic a little more relevant to `discussion of Religious Texts', feel free. Abortion is too much of a hot topic.

Topic Closed.