Paganism

[Bluebiird]

I'm actually atheist, even though I was christened, but I'm starting to develope an interest in Paganism. I was curious to know if there are any paganists here, and peoples views on paganism. What do you believe?

[duchess109]

Hi bluebiird and all religious denominations,

I am a student of religion. I am studying for a degree in the Humanities specialising in the study of religion. This course looks at religion from a non confessional perspective. I have just finished a course through the Open University on World Religion. My next course covers the transition from paganism to Christian Britian and the fall of christian Britian in the 20th century. I would be interestedin your views on this subject as I am not up on the whats and wherefores of paganism. Having said that my husband is interested in paganism and on our sitting room ceiling he has painted a huge pentagram with all the positive symbols of paganism including venus, the horned goddess and the elements. The pentagram is based on the pythagoras pentagram which you will find a copy in the encyclopedia of witchcraft. He is going to paint an evil eye over the kitchen door and the witches motto "Do what thou must, but do no harm". I am interested in different types of literature and are at present reading Blakes prophecies. If you have any interesting interpretations on his works I would be delighted to hear from you. I'll sign off for now.

duchess109

[Bluebiird]

I'm afraid I don't know much about Paganism, I've only just started looking into it. But I'm studying Blakes poetry for my english course right now.

[Soma]

Well, as for the question on paganism, I myself am polytheistic in which I followthe ways and teachings of the Old Norse. If you wish for further information into the teachings of Aasgard you may contact me at [email protected] and I would be moer than happy to provide you with any further information

[Stanislaw]

whats do we burn aside from witches? :D

heh, paiganism is a funny thing for an athiest to believe in.:)

[genoveva]

Reading anything by Starhawk is a great place to start. (ex. The Spiral Dance,The Fifth Sacred Element, Circle Round) Although I do not consider myself a full on pagan, I do have pagan tendencies, and live in a pagan rich community. Reading stuff about Goddess worship and the elements should also give some good insight into paganism.

[Theshizznigg]

Bluebird, I ask that you be careful when considering Paganim. I have been witness to things that would shock many ordinary people. I do not wish to relate these to the forum. But if you really wish to know, then mail me and I will tell you.
I can honestly tell you, that there is power in Paganism, tangible, real power, (superceded only by spiritual or godly power) but I must ask to what costs are you really willing to pursue them.

Shizz.

[genoveva]

I can honestly tell you, that there is power in Paganism, tangible, real power, (superceded only by spiritual or godly power) but I must ask to what costs are you really willing to pursue them.


:lol:
Are you making a distinction between Paganism and spiritual/godly power? Paganism envelops spiritual power and godly power among other things. Are you placing Paganism on a hierarchy of spiritualism?

[SheykAbdullah]

I do have a question, and this has always bothered me since I first heard someone say that someone had bisexual tendancies. How do you have Pagan tendancies? Are you only a Pagan on Tuesdays and Thursdays? Do you do all the rites but only believe in one God?

[Bandini]

There are several different definitions of 'tendencies' - it is quite possible/logical to have pagan or bisexual tendencies - i.e. a predisposition to act in a certain way. One could have socialist tendencies without considering oneself a socialist.

I think it is a tendency towards labelling that you are exhibiting Sheyk?

[genoveva]

How do you have Pagan tendancies? Are you only a Pagan on Tuesdays and Thursdays? Do you do all the rites but only believe in one God?

No, I don't do all the "rites" but do attend rituals when it fits in with my schedule and I'm feeling festive. No, I don't believe in one God. I believe in many goddesses and gods.

By having Pagan tendencies I mean, I am more likely to purchase a book about goddess worship than a book with such a title "10 Ways for a Christian to Be a Better Person". I'm more likely to go to a Beltane festival and dance the may pole than to attend church on Sundays. I'm more likely to have friends who are priestesses than Pastors. I'm more likely to have a bumper sticker that says "My other car is a broom" than "What Would Jesus Do". That sort of thing.

[SheykAbdullah]

I think it is a tendency towards labelling that you are exhibiting Sheyk?

You may be right, but I have always considered myself an intellectual and that is a classic technique from the intellectual's playbook, so maybe I just have intellectual tendencies :brow:

[Xamonas Chegwe]

I have been witness to things that would shock many ordinary people.

So you don't consider yourself to be ordinary, Shizz? Fair enough. Do I take it that you claim to be extraordinary? Or just odd? the people need to be told I feel. :D

[Xamonas Chegwe]

One could have socialist tendencies without considering oneself a socialist.

Oops - isn' t it current politics to describe Tony Blair thus? Oh, you didn't mean him? Easy mistake to make! :lol:

[poesguiltyheart]

honestly since when do you go from discussing paganism to Tony Blair? but for the original poster, there is a myriad of possibilities out there. and the correct way to say it is, "And harm ye none, do what ye will." But the first rule of paganism or magick is this: whatever you do returns threefold. the threefold rule. you do bad, three times bad. you do good three times good. example: Macbeth-The witches say "Three times..." three times. the power of three is very great and is a pinacle in paganism. one of the reasons that the christian church actually decided to invent the triune GOD. i personally respect all beliefs but some things seem farfetched, of course the GOD and the GODDESS are one but...

[poesguiltyheart]

about extroardinary things seen. many things that are not seen are extroardinary, but heed any warnings that you recieve no matter how trivial their appearances. again with Macbeth-appearances are decieving. a trivial warning may save ones life. "be wary of all magick involving a specific ritual" may lead to you not accidentally dealing with something beyond your level skill or experience. their are unseen beings, angels or demons, whatever you prefer to call them. spirits, wandering souls. i personally deal with them on a daily basis and they can be your worst enemy or best friend. control is the key. and everyone has their limit to how much control they can exert. experience with minor forces develops one fopr greater forces, but one must also absorb what one learns and apply it to their lives. or it was for nought. this in itself is a warning. please heed it.

[Xamonas Chegwe]

their are unseen beings, angels or demons, whatever you prefer to call them. spirits, wandering souls. i personally deal with them on a daily basis

Are you serious? I'm afraid that you have just strayed into my 'crackpot' category. I'd lay off the jazz woodbines if I were you.

[SheykAbdullah]

one of the reasons that the christian church actually decided to invent the triune GOD. i personally respect all beliefs but some things seem farfetched, of course the GOD and the GODDESS are one but...

Just out of curiosity, why does the idea of a tripartite God seem far fetched to you if you accept the idea that all the Gods and Goddesses (and I assume there are more than three of them) are one themselves?

[Mililalil XXIV]

The silly thing about neo-paganism, is that it is not a true conviction. Ancient paganism often had a degree of custom in it for the sake of holding to what immediate fathers passed down and trusted, and not as a modern fad to be different from Christians. Many of the festivals poeple say they are returning to are 19th century inventions of "scholars" full of wishful thinking, that there might be greener grass where the land is unfamiliar. Christianity is a focused devotion. An ancient Thor worshipper truly sought to worship a particular god his upbringing was immersed with. If one tries to be a Thor-worshipper today, that's just artificial, and doesn't fit the idea of custom and tradition as a part of religion, which is an honest attempt to be connected with something of substance if possible.

[Mililalil XXIV]

honestly since when do you go from discussing paganism to Tony Blair? but for the original poster, there is a myriad of possibilities out there. and the correct way to say it is, "And harm ye none, do what ye will." But the first rule of paganism or magick is this: whatever you do returns threefold. the threefold rule. you do bad, three times bad. you do good three times good. example: Macbeth-The witches say "Three times..." three times. the power of three is very great and is a pinacle in paganism. one of the reasons that the christian church actually decided to invent the triune GOD. i personally respect all beliefs but some things seem farfetched, of course the GOD and the GODDESS are one but...
Where did you get this idea from? Christians are Christians for accepting the Covenant and Teaching and Life of CHRIST, WHO is the BUILDER of the Church. HE, being ONE of the TRINITY, included that fact in the Teaching HE handed on to Christians. There is evidence that Israel knew GOD to be THREE PERSONS before CHRIST's Incarnation, as well as evidence that all nations at once knew GOD alike as THREE PERSONS.

[Bandini]

...which is an honest attempt to be connected with something of substance if possible.


tee hee!.................

[Bandini]

Are you serious? I'm afraid that you have just strayed into my 'crackpot' category. I'd lay off the jazz woodbines if I were you.

heh! Seconded.

[cuppajoe_9]

There is evidence that Israel knew GOD to be THREE PERSONS before CHRIST's Incarnation, as well as evidence that all nations at once knew GOD alike as THREE PERSONS."All nations"? All the nations in the world? Ever? I hope you have a really impressive piece of evidence to back up that statement, Mil.

P.S. Must you type every other word entirely in capitals?

[Truth Untold]

i agree with poesguiltyheart about being careful. i follow my own mellowe version of wicca with rules and what some modern witches would call ancient ideals but i'm happy.

[dr_dave53]

Are you serious? I'm afraid that you have just strayed into my 'crackpot' category. I'd lay off the jazz woodbines if I were you.

Oh...So it's ok to believe in angels as a Christian. But if as a pagan I change angel to spirit, that's not ok? Hmmmmmm. Please explain.:confused:

[blazeofglory]

I'm actually atheist, even though I was christened, but I'm starting to develope an interest in Paganism. I was curious to know if there are any paganists here, and peoples views on paganism. What do you believe?

I am much interested in paganism and all I have read about it is it has been repressed by schools of Christianity. History approves of this fact. Christians have been repressive forces to subdue or subjugate other religions and they are still doing to convert millions in the name of charity.

All they do in the name of Christianity or religions is they destroyed

[blazeofglory]

Bluebird, I ask that you be careful when considering Paganim. I have been witness to things that would shock many ordinary people. I do not wish to relate these to the forum. But if you really wish to know, then mail me and I will tell you.
I can honestly tell you, that there is power in Paganism, tangible, real power, (superceded only by spiritual or godly power) but I must ask to what costs are you really willing to pursue them.

Shizz.

At no costs at all, for it was always Christianity and schools of it, historically speaking dominated and decimated it. Yet now modern readers have inquisitiveness about it.

I like paganism for a simple reason that it is seamlessly pure and it encourages worshiping nature and is rooted in animism.

There is resurgence and interests in Paganism and of course they will come up with more and more newer ideas related to it.

[aabbcc]

There is evidence that Israel knew GOD to be THREE PERSONS before CHRIST's Incarnation, as well as evidence that all nations at once knew GOD alike as THREE PERSONS.
[bolded emphasis mine]
I really try not to nitpick, but these two are overly ambitious claims to be ignored.
I want a citation from, or a link to, academically credible source which claims that, for each of your claims specifically, if you please.

[aabbcc]

"And harm ye none, do what ye will."

Could somebody, please, define what is considered "harm" from the perspective of cult which adopts this rule. What exactly is "harm" and what are "acts of harm". Thank you.

[JBI]

[bolded emphasis mine]
I really try not to nitpick, but these two are overly ambitious claims to be ignored.
I want a citation from, or a link to, academically credible source which claims that, for each of your claims specifically, if you please.

I agree with what you said, even the gnostic separation of god into two came only in the middle ages. I have yet to come across a rabbinic text of that period which treats god as such. Nothing I have come across from the major Zugot rabbis says anything remotely like "god is a trinity".

[blazeofglory]

Where did you get this idea from? Christians are Christians for accepting the Covenant and Teaching and Life of CHRIST, WHO is the BUILDER of the Church. HE, being ONE of the TRINITY, included that fact in the Teaching HE handed on to Christians. There is evidence that Israel knew GOD to be THREE PERSONS before CHRIST's Incarnation, as well as evidence that all nations at once knew GOD alike as THREE PERSONS.

Christ was not a Christian and the Buddha was not a Buddhist and we labeled them; we name them, we classified them and finally I say we wronged or misnamed them, and of course we misconstrued their teachings.

Jesus did not establish Christianity and he was all the time all set against idolatry and we idolized him.

I love Jesus for he he stood for integrity and whereas his followers miscast him and misguided the world. Christians and their missionaries were geared up to seam his name.

[dzebra]

Jesus did not establish Christianity and he was all the time all set against idolatry and we idolized him.


So Jesus,
who was called the Christ,
who taught people and told them to follow him,
did not establish Christianity,
which is the following of the Christ,
who is Jesus?

Idolatry is the worship of anything that is not God. Since Jesus is God, the worship of him is not idolatry.

[blazeofglory]

So Jesus,
who was called the Christ,
who taught people and told them to follow him,
did not establish Christianity,
which is the following of the Christ,
who is Jesus?

Idolatry is the worship of anything that is not God. Since Jesus is God, the worship of him is not idolatry.

In fact all you wrote is really illogical and there is nothing to support your ideas at all. Jesus was against idolatry so was Jesus and their followers, Christians did against his teachings.

Christianity is a sect and is therefore a sectarian idea and that disintegrates human society and it creates a kind of divisiveness, and regard the rest who do not choose to be Christians. In fact all who do it or spread it or popularize Christianity is try to subdue or subjugate the rest of other faith holders. And there are Christian misisonaries who are all set to help the poor but at the back of their minds they are not geared up the poor and they have a different motive in the name of charitable works. All that they do by helping the poor is to disintegrate the age old social structure and forcibly or persuasively they lead people to their fall or they denigrate their coherent and tolerant societies.

[dzebra]

In fact all you wrote is really illogical and there is nothing to support your ideas at all. Jesus was against idolatry so was Jesus and their followers, Christians did against his teachings.


The Bible and other documents by historians of the time support those ideas. They tell about the message that Jesus preached, and that he was believed to be the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus was against idolatry, but he did not consider himself an idol.

I can't begin to understand how you could think that Jesus the Christ did not establish Christianity (which is defined as following the Christ). There are lots of things that Jesus did not establish, but none of those are Christianity.

On second thought, if a group of people said they were Christians, but were not following the teachings of Christ, then I can see how you could think that Christ didn't establish Christianity. That would be because the people would be falsely claiming to be Christians.

[Judas130]

In fact all you wrote is really illogical and there is nothing to support your ideas at all. Jesus was against idolatry so was Jesus and their followers, Christians did against his teachings.

Christianity is a sect and is therefore a sectarian idea and that disintegrates human society and it creates a kind of divisiveness, and regard the rest who do not choose to be Christians. In fact all who do it or spread it or popularize Christianity is try to subdue or subjugate the rest of other faith holders. And there are Christian misisonaries who are all set to help the poor but at the back of their minds they are not geared up the poor and they have a different motive in the name of charitable works. All that they do by helping the poor is to disintegrate the age old social structure and forcibly or persuasively they lead people to their fall or they denigrate their coherent and tolerant societies.

You do get various christian charities helping LEDCs out and saying to locals 'God did this for you' and setting up churches for prayer. Which is a fairly mean deal, should we not be helping our disadvantaged brothers out of love anyway? we all live on the same planet, and belong to the same species. God needed be the sole reason to help someone, if a reason at all.

And you are right in what you say, Christ did not establish the Christian Church. Saint Peter, the first pope, or priest of Vatican Hill, the rock, was the founder.

[blazeofglory]

Dear all, all that I said is Jesus was and is above Christianity. Christianity and Jesus or the ideals Jesus lived with are not one and the same thing. They are polar opposites. Christianity is a sect or a sectarian thing, something denominational the way Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Jainism. I think Jesus, Mohamed did not establish all these sectarian views or ways of life. They rose above all these things. They were all set against all kind of inhumane activities.
They are above religions, the kind of religions we value today that birthed nothing but bigotries, fundamentalists, fanatics. We know that so many so called popes are homosexuals and live perversely.

I revere Jesus, the Buddha, Mohamed. Not all those who take religions as instruments and who did not follow their courses. I knee before these great souls and I pray them for the ideals they want to entrench here.

[Judas130]

I revere Jesus, the Buddha, Mohamed. Not all those who take religions as instruments and who did not follow their courses. I knee before these great souls and I pray them for the ideals they want to entrench here.

so you believe in the purest form of the faith itself, starting at the very person who was influential upon his followers to build a faith in his name, and his ideas, not the church around him. correct?

[blazeofglory]

so you believe in the purest form of the faith itself, starting at the very person who was influential upon his followers to build a faith in his name, and his ideas, not the church around him. correct?

I agree to some extent. I do not follow their followers. Jesus and their flowers are not the same and they are not prophets and as such their churches, their interpretations, their construals, their understanding of Jesus and his works suffer limitations.

[Judas130]

I agree to some extent. I do not follow their followers. Jesus and their flowers are not the same and they are not prophets and as such their churches, their interpretations, their construals, their understanding of Jesus and his works suffer limitations.

then where does true understanding in faith come? where would you advise we look? People talk of 'being close with God' or having 'a friend in Jesus' etc. There is little material on these people that has not been filtered by organisation. Yet I don't feel this should hinder us in our discovery.

[blazeofglory]

You do get various christian charities helping LEDCs out and saying to locals 'God did this for you' and setting up churches for prayer. Which is a fairly mean deal, should we not be helping our disadvantaged brothers out of love anyway? we all live on the same planet, and belong to the same species. God needed be the sole reason to help someone, if a reason at all.

And you are right in what you say, Christ did not establish the Christian Church. Saint Peter, the first pope, or priest of Vatican Hill, the rock, was the founder.

Yes, friend Christianity is just a sect, and sects have certain feathers and they use these features to distinguish them from the rest of other faith holders, and it crates divisions, conflicts, it disrupts unity. All faith holders are combative and are fighting to buttress their own ideologies. All these factors have bred what we call fanaticism and fundamentalism. We wrongly use fundamentalist ideas,that is religious ideas.

I do not mean religious ideas are disruptive and destructive at all times, they are more often very constructive and morally instructive. The Bible is full of moral parables but at times I come upon episodes wherein some instances are not palatable.