What Do Women Want?

[starrwriter]

What do women want?

The question haunted Sigmund Freud, who eventually concluded that women want to be men. Thus, his concept of penis envy. But Freud's speculation came during a much more restrictive social era a century ago and most psychologists now think Freud emphasized sex too much.

So what do women want today? I think screenwriter Terrence McNally provided the answer in the 1991 film "Frankie and Johnny," which he adapted from his stage play.

In the movie Michelle Pfeiffer is an aloof waitress in a greasy spoon restaurant. Aloof because she's been burned by men in the past. Al Pacino is a newly-hired cook on parole from prison for forgery. He's horny and obsessed with Pfeiffer (who isn't?) She keeps him at arm's length, saying she can't handle his neediness or intensity. He keeps the pressure on until she finally relents -- with one provision.

This isn't one of those man chases woman until she catches him stories. Quite the contrary, she really doesn't want him in her life at the outset. She's burned out on relationships, but she's also unhappy being alone. In a remarkable scene that should have won Pfeiffer an Academy Award, she tearfully confesses that she's scared of living and dying alone, but equally scared of committing herself to a relationship, and sick of being scared of everything. She's an emotional train wreck, albeit a beautiful one.

But Pacino loves her anyway and she eventually sees that he is sincere. Before she lets him move into her apartment, however, she elicits a promise from him. He must love her and stay with her "no matter what."

As soon as I heard those three words, it struck me that McNally had found the answer to Freud's question. Women want to be loved "no matter what" happens in the relationship. No matter if they get fat, ugly and old. No matter if they turn into high-maintenance emotional mine fields. No matter if they still love the man, but are not "in love" with him any longer (whatever that means.)

In other words, women want unconditional love from a man that lasts forever. My question is: how many men are able or willing to give that, even to a woman who looks as appealing as Michelle Pfeiffer?

[papayahed]

Wow. It sounds like your trying to say that men should be able to cheat because women want/expect too much, and your basing those expectations on a play.

I can't speak for the sisterhood, but this is what I want:

I want a man to be my friend, to be honest and open. Yes, I want some one to love me uncondtionally - when I get fat, ugly, and old - he is also getting fat, ugly, and old (you forgot that part). Unconditionally means being committed to each other, that doesn't work if either is leaving at the first sign of trouble - there will always be trouble.


No matter if they still love the man, but are not "in love" with him any longer (whatever that means.)

I don't want a "fake" relationship. I will not "go through the motions" just to have a man around and I definately don't want to be the "best available choice" for anybody.

[kilted exile]

As far as I have been to able to figure out in my short life to this point women want the following:
1) Someone to kill spiders, bugs and all other manner of creepy-crawlies.
2) Someone who understands that when they say one thing, they actually mean the exact opposite (on a side note if "I'm fine" really means "You're in trouble" why not say so, it makes it easier for us to hide)
3) Someone to listen to them complain about their friends/co-workers.
4) Someone to tell them they dont look fat in various articles of clothing.

j.k :D

[papayahed]

As far as I have been to able to figure out in my short life to this point women want the following:
1) Someone to kill spiders, bugs and all other manner of creepy-crawlies.
2) Someone who understands that when they say one thing, they actually mean the exact opposite (on a side note if "I'm fine" really means "You're in trouble" why not say so, it makes it easier for us to hide)
3) Someone to listen to them complain about their friends/co-workers.
4) Someone to tell them they dont look fat in various articles of clothing.

j.k :D

Yeah, those too, but you forgot opening jars.

[lhaeber]

Plenty of men who are wise, cultured and strong are capable and willing (no, reeeally they are) of giving unconditional love. Plenty of women who are wise, cultured and strong and, oh, I almost forgot, beautiful, are capable of giving unconditional love. The thing is, there are too many human beings who are capable of zapping the strength, overusing the wisdom and robbing the culture right from the very souls of their partners and I think that it is that practice that makes people like Starrwriter capable of posing such a question...He is obviously the result of love done gone wrong...
----"No matter if they still love the man, but are not "in love" with him any longer (whatever that means.)" ----
Oh yo poor thing, here's what it means, she didn't want to hurt you. There are men whom we love yet do not fall in love with and you know -- we get told that too!!! Men have baggage too, men need help, they need attention ( boy, do they) and they go off on their own crazy trains too!!!!
I mean, really, I can't think of a worse perdicament than pondering this question all the while wondering if Michelle Pfeiffer really will get old and ugly.

[lhaeber]

As far as I have been to able to figure out in my life to this point men want the following:
Someone to cook, bake, sandwich make, clean, wash, supervise children, sweep, vacuum, entertain his family
Someone who understands that when they say one thing, they actually mean they're never going to do it, probably means they never even heard it, certainly means it'll be forgotten about
Someone to listen to them complain about their friends/co-workers and then invite them over so you can cook, clean and entertain these so-called losers while he drinks all the booze in the house
Someone to tell them they aren't losing their hair

[starrwriter]

He is obviously the result of love done gone wrong...
----"No matter if they still love the man, but are not "in love" with him any longer (whatever that means.)" ----Oh yo poor thing, here's what it means, she didn't want to hurt you.
I knew this thread would lead to potshots at me.

FYI, no woman ever said that to me, but it's happened to most guys I have known and it's apparently so common they make fun of it on TV commercials. That phrase seems disingenuous, deceptive and evasive to me. I don't think it has anything to do with sparing a guy's feelings. And men don't say it to women.

[starrwriter]

It sounds like your trying to say that men should be able to cheat because women want/expect too much...
Not what I was saying at all. I never mentioned cheating because it has nothing to do with the question I posed.


...and your basing those expectations on a play.
Good fiction is full of insights about human nature. Aside from the excellent film I described, I have observed Frankie's behavior in plenty of real women.

[starrwriter]

As far as I have been to able to figure out in my life to this point men want the following: [list]

My God, the woman understands us.
(heh-heh)

[B-Mental]

As far as I have been to able to figure out in my life to this point men want the following:
Someone to cook, bake, sandwich make, clean, wash, supervise children, sweep, vacuum, entertain his family
Someone who understands that when they say one thing, they actually mean they're never going to do it, probably means they never even heard it, certainly means it'll be forgotten about
Someone to listen to them complain about their friends/co-workers and then invite them over so you can cook, clean and entertain these so-called losers while he drinks all the booze in the house
Someone to tell them they aren't losing their hair

I've yet to be involved in a relationship with a woman that could cook as well as me. However, women that can't even make a frozen pizza with directions will tell me how I'm cutting an onion incorrectly.

I could go on and on but lets get back to the topic. You know the one about women. These are generalizations.

They want someone to tell them they look good. Period end of discussion.
They want to be complimented, even if they don't deserve it.
They want you to agree to their point of view in every discussion.
They want to be infallible.
They want someone to ridicule. (One girlfriend would pick on my driving habits, when I let her drive she cruised through a stop sign and into a police cruiser.)
They want someone who will disregard everything, but her own personal welfare.
They want someone that doesn't burp, bleat, snore, toss or turn.
They want someone that will make them feel better than they would were they alone.

The funny thing is that when a woman finds everything she ever wanted, she finds out it isn't what she wants. Start the whole thing over with another subject.

[Basil]

Seriously, am I losing my hair? Will one of you girls look and let me know? Seriously.

[Basil]

The problem is I can't see the back of my own head, so I have no way of telling . . .

[Basil]

I mean, I deserve to know, don't I? Seriously. I could take pictures of the back of my head with a digital camera, but that would just be silly. Won't somebody just tell me? C'mon, I can take it. Going bald isn't such a big deal.

[Basil]

WHY CAN'T I KNOW?? WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE A BIG SECRET??

[lhaeber]

Look, you're not losing your hair already and would you move out of the way so I can see if these pants make my hips look big?

[lhaeber]

Cancel that...it's my hips that make my hips look big.

[Basil]

Haven't I always said those pants have a wonderful slimming effect on you?

[lhaeber]

Men want someone. Period end of discussion.
Men don't deserve it.
Men want their point of view in every discussion.
Men aren't infallible.
Men want someone.
Men want someone.
Men want someone.
Men want someone.

Here's a thought, use the time to analyze yourselves, stop making such generalisations based on the last woman that left you alone with a tube sock and turn the page. We're not the enemy, we aren't all that bad and you guys do seriously burp, bleat, snore, toss or turn way too much and hey, why haven't you called your mother?

[lhaeber]

Slimming effect?
Gawd!
Does that mean I need help slimming myself down? Do I look fat? Will you still love me if I get fat? Why can't I just be beautiful?

[Basil]

No, dear, I just meant those pants have always looked really good on you!

[Basil]

And you'll be beautiful no matter what!

[B-Mental]

Men want someone. Period end of discussion.
Men don't deserve it.
Men want their point of view in every discussion.
Men aren't infallible.
Men want someone.

Here's a thought, use the time to analyze yourselves, stop making such generalisations based on the last woman that left you alone with a tube sock and turn the page. We're not the enemy, we aren't all that bad and you guys do seriously burp, bleat, snore, toss or turn way too much and hey, why haven't you called your mother?


Take your own advice, your posts have been the most acidic on this thread. I don't even own a pair of tube socks, so could you please explain that comment for me? I don't want someone, I want to be alone, and actually those pants were unflattering especially when the last woman I dated (and the 7-8 before that) asked the question.

[Themis]

I knew this thread would lead to potshots at me.

FYI, no woman ever said that to me, but it's happened to most guys I have known and it's apparently so common they make fun of it on TV commercials. That phrase seems disingenuous, deceptive and evasive to me. I don't think it has anything to do with sparing a guy's feelings. And men don't say it to women.

Wrong. They do say it.

[Logos]

All I will say is..

I've now read enough sexist, gender-based sterotypes, wide-sweeping generalisations and cliches for the next ten years. :nod:

[A Hard Rain]

i agree logos! And they aren't even good ones. But, the only thing that bugs me about the whole man / woman situation is the concept of: the woman chooses the man.

The man can court women,
but he does not get to choose the women of his courting.

Women don't necessarily get the choice of anyone, but they do get the choice of their potentials.

I don't know why this bothers me, maybe some insecurities of my own or what, but i always feel the women got the good deal on that.

I have the feeling that this puts guys at a disadvantage, only because of all the bull**** games that are played. See, the guy as the agressor has to make his presense and interest known. And then while she hesitates to make sure you've bit fully down on it, she finally starts pullin' the bait and the hooks in deep now, but you've got to back off at the same time because this girl is protecting herself, making sure you'll jump through hoops, and your gonna do it, but its a game of balance. Jumping through some and not others. Walking the line.

It bugs me though. And every once in a while it doesn't go like this. But, when it does, i want to be finished with it. Plus, in my experience, girls are more manipulative and dishonest. A biased experiance but, ****! I stand by this one. You girls don't give us enough credit. We have a CODE. alright! And feelings too! Were like loyal dogs. One of our weaknesses. It allows us to be pinned down so easily.

Anyways, Try and understand your man if you can.

[Logos]

Well I will put forth a _fact_ here, that at the local university the student ratio of men to women is 1:7

I suppose men do have some basis to feel they're getting a `raw deal' or that it's really difficult to `connect' emotionally with a woman since they have so many to choose from.

Here's another cliche: `quality vs. quantity' :D

[rachel]

well you are losing your hair but it just makes the lovely shape of your head easier to enjoy. And your hips look perfect, just don't share them with a guy that can't open jars.And as for you you THINK no woman ever said that to you, but remember that bout of forgetfulness you went thru, when you were scared it could be alzheimers? you remember you started out going for a coffee and ended up feeding pigeons in Central Park and you don't even like pigeons.
I think it comes down to covenant and i know plenty of couples of thirty years or more that went thru it all and grew up and saw not the fantasy they wanted to see in front of them but who the other person really was and fell in love. And they looked around this cold world and counted themselves blessed.
B-mental, it is a fact that most guys can cook better than we can. I always keep my mouth shut and enjoy even though people say i am a great cook. it is all relative. and all my girlfriends are horrible drivers. I always carry a vomit bag when I am with them.
starrwriter I know the name of a great therapist who also saw frankie and johnny should you need one!!!

[starrwriter]

Look, you're not losing your hair already and would you move out of the way so I can see if these pants make my hips look big?
You betcha.

(I'm just agreeing with whatever you say, like the schmuck in the TV commercial.)

[starrwriter]

And as for you who THINK no woman ever said that to you, but remember that bout of forgetfulness you went thru, when you were scared it could be alzheimers? you remember you started out going for a coffee and ended up feeding pigeons in Central Park and you don't even like pigeons.
Central Park ... pigeons ... It all sounds vaguely familiar. I remember a hooker from Times Square.


I think it comes down to covenant and i know plenty of couples of thirty years or more that went thru it all and grew up and saw not the fantasy they wanted to see in front of them but who the other person really was and fell in love. And they looked around this cold world and counted themselves blessed.
Or cursed, as the particular case may be. Did you say coven? Hmmm...


all my girlfriends are horrible drivers. I always carry a vomit bag when I am with them.
For leftovers?


starrwriter I know the name of a great therapist who also saw frankie and johnny should you need one!!!
You betcha.

[starrwriter]

Slimming effect? Gawd! Does that mean I need help slimming myself down? Do I look fat? Will you still love me if I get fat? Why can't I just be beautiful?
I don't know, why can't you? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

Who opened this can of worms anyway? Wait -- it was me, wasn't it?

Actually, I find the discussion quite stimulating. There are a couple very funny ladies in this thread. I love sarcastic humor. Besides, it's better to get all these gender grudges out in the open. Otherwise, they fester and upset the digestion.

We all want magic, but there's only so much to go around.

[Monica]

In "The Wife of Bath's Tale" Chaucer asks the same question i.e. what do women want most? He comes to the conclusion that women want to have power over men :D

[starrwriter]

In "The Wife of Bath's Tale" Chaucer asks the same question i.e. what do women want most? He comes to the conclusion that women want to have power over men :D
Actor William Devane explained the popularity of soap operas as "women punishing men."

See, this is a legitimate intellectual question. We have input from the father of psychoanalysis, a successfull playwright/screenwriter, a modern yeoman actor, an Old English author and a handful of sarcastic forum posters (including me.)

[papayahed]

In "The Wife of Bath's Tale" Chaucer asks the same question i.e. what do women want most? He comes to the conclusion that women want to have power over men :D

We have that don't we?

[papayahed]

Not what I was saying at all. I never mentioned cheating because it has nothing to do with the question I posed.


I assumed your question was leading that way. You asked what man can give all that? Which lead me to the conclusion that you believe that men aren't capable of being in long term relationships and since we have empirical proof that they are....



Good fiction is full of insights about human nature. Aside from the excellent film I described, I have observed Frankie's behavior in plenty of real women

the term excellent film is debatable. I watched the film and didn't recognize any characteristics or behaviors, of course I wasn't looking - I think I fell asleep.

Take Waynes World - those were my friends!! Except we had less testosterone, but about the same amount of hair.

[baddad]

The question originally posed asked if, 'men, or any man,was capable of 'unconditional love.' I think the question wavers in focus, limiting the scope of the answer and so limiting the scope of the many truths an answer to such a question could supply.....


....and I think that social expectations cloud the reality of the chances of ANY two people living in spousal bliss for an entire lifetime ( notwithstanding the constant bombardment from aspects of our societies constantly reassuring us that such a state is the most 'natural') is slim!! (yeah, a damn long winded sentence, I know...) Sure, living 'happily everafter' will occurr for some couples, but how 'natural' is the lifetime 'commitment' to the biologic that is a human being?

But, again, back to the original question: Men that will love unconditionally? They are everywhere!!! Women that will love unconditionally??? They are everywhere!!!! Humans that don't understand that men and woman are alike, but only express themselves differently??? Well, unfortunately, they are everywhere too.......

......6+ billion people on the planet, 6+billion different personalities..............life is not about man versus women (no heirarchy intended by this given order of words) , BUT life is about OURSELF VS ENLIGHTENMENT.....on a grand scale my friends.....hugs all around for the peanut gallery.......

[subterranean]

What do I want?


Well let see...just a cup of hot coffee.


IMO, I think most of the guys who replied in this thread are merely being pretentious...

[Scheherazade]

What do women want?The assumption is that all women want the same thing?
So what do women want today? I think screenwriter Terrence McNally provided the answer in the 1991 film "Frankie and Johnny," which he adapted from his stage play.I saw the movie and loved it. I remember feeling for Michelle Pfeiffer's character even though I did not experience the things she did (or ever have for that matter). I do believe that there are some women out there who can identify with Pfeiffer's character (and some men with Pacino's) but I think it is an awfully bold (or bald?? :D) assumption that all men and women feel/act/react in the same way and like Debussy and 'Claire de Lune' as much.
My question is: how many men are able or willing to give that, even to a woman who looks as appealing as Michelle Pfeiffer? However, does this question say something about the expectations of some men at least? Would they be willing to give more if the women have the 'right' kind of looks? If a woman is as attractive as Pfeiffer, would she be entitled better treatment or more patience from men? Do (some) men feel as long as their girlfriends/wives are good looking, they will cope with most things and demands?

[starrwriter]

The assumption is that all women want the same thing?I saw the movie and loved it. I remember feeling for Michelle Pfeiffer's character even though I did not experience the things she did (or ever have for that matter). I do believe that there are some women out there who can identify with Pfeiffer's character (and some men with Pacino's) but I think it is an awfully bold assumption that all men and women feel/act/react in the same way...
Nothing is universally valid for ALL men and women, including genuine humanity. Should we therefore abandon the study of psychology? Or observe the behavior of particular individuals and try to draw a few general conclusions (one being there is a little bit of them in us).



However, does this question say something about the expectations of some men at least? Would they be willing to give more if the women have the 'right' kind of looks?
Yes.


If a woman is as attractive as Pfeiffer, would she be entitled to better treatment or more patience from men?
Not entitled, but she would get more slack anyway. I know, men are pigs.

[Scheherazade]

I know, men are pigs.Who am I to argue with you on that?

:p

[starrwriter]

IMO, I think most of the guys who replied in this thread are merely being pretentious...
Or honest, which amounts to the same thing in many cases.

[starrwriter]

I know, men are pigs.


Who am I to argue with you on that?
Heh-heh. I just wanted to say it first, since I knew it was coming somewhere down the line.

The truth is both men and women are hardwired to slobber over attractive/sexy. It's Primate Biology 101.

[Scheherazade]

Nothing is universally valid for ALL men and women, including genuine humanity. Should we therefore abandon the study of psychology? Or observe the behavior of particular individuals and try to draw a few general conclusions (one being there is a little bit of them in us)I think rather than a general question, asking individual their expectations would get you more clearer answers. I am sometimes surprised by the choices my closest female friends make so I don't think I can give healthy answers about other female's expectations and wants.


The truth is both men and women are hardwired to slobber over attractive/sexy. It's Primate Biology 101. Disclaimer: The fact that my present screen name on the MSN is 'The Primate' is purely coincidental!

:goof:

[starrwriter]

Disclaimer: The fact that my present screen name on the MSN is 'The Primate' is purely coincidental!
But you ARE a primate. No reason to disavow it, unless you're a lot more squeamish than I am.

[Koa]

Well this is just an eternal question, possibly a pointless one, and I hope that starrwriter didn't want a real answer but a discussion... the discussion can go on forever and it can go funny or heated, but... well, it will never reach a full stop.

I think women want protection (yeah, especially from bugs :D)...possibly all of them (us), especially those who are independant and look self-confident... possibly more than the small sweet-looking ones who pretend to be so naive that they had protection all their life...
(if I dont make sense it's because some links remain in my mind rather than where they should be expressed, just dont mind).

I think men should realise a lot of things... what do MEN want after all? i've tried to be myself, I've tried not to be, I've blamed it on being fat, on being black-haired, on being too shy or too silly or too clever or too independant or too insignificant or on having too much personality... I've concluded that my destiny is too be single.
And watch out...a lot of men are cowards so all of you out there who are not (if there are some), you'll have to work very hard to make up for this impression your colleagues (as in male) gave us. :mad:

Can a man love a woman unconditionately? (and vice versa?) Possibly, even outside of movies. In any case, not forever... one has to be a fool to believe in eternal love... Probably being a fool makes them lucky cos they can believe in relationships, but still, it's foolish.

[rachel]

hey starr,

ever thought of a night time job as a stand up comedian. you're the best

[kilted exile]

So, I've been reading this topic and I thought I'd post a more serious answer than my other one.

The majority of both genders really dont know what they want. They have too many preconceptions of what relationships should be like from watching tv/movies etc, to see beyond all that and realise that there is no such thing as the perfect match.In my opinion it is this that makes relationships and life in general interesting.

So many women date complete jerks and then complain about them, or try to change them. When in actual fact the dumbass really needs a good smack upside of the head and told where to go. On a similar note we men often go for brain dead bimbos (eg Michelle Pfeifer to use the earlier example) and then spend the majority of time joking about how stupid they are.

A friend of mine once compared women to apples. The basic premise of his idea was that instead of climbing the tree to get the apples/women that are further to reach we settle to go for the "easier" women/apples which do not take as much effort to get. This makes the other apples/women feel that something is wrong with them which isnt the case, most men just arent willing to put in the extra effort to climb the tree. This probably covers both men and women however.

[starrwriter]

I've concluded that my destiny is to be single.
Pardon me for stating the obvious, but no one who is 23 knows his destiny is to be single. Life is a long journey and the possibility of hot monkey love awaits around every corner.

[starrwriter]

hey starr, ever thought of a night time job as a stand up comedian. you're the best
I always try to leave 'em laughing so they don't throw beer bottles at me the next time.

[Logos]

All these ape references are driving me bananas :banana:

[denmans]

[QUOTE=starrwriter]What do women want?



Chaucer wasn't the first. The question is even older. 'what women want' is a quote from arthurian tales when some poor knight had to find out the hard way.

[papayahed]

Or honest, which amounts to the same thing in many cases.

hehe, this reminds me of the cartoon where the normal looking chick is looking in the mirror and she shes an ugly hag, the next frame shows a balding, pudgy guy looking in the mirror and he sees a fit handsome man.

[rachel]

those dancing bananas make me want to scream, scream i tell you. Logos since your very moniker(i don't even really know what that means, it just sounded intelligent)denotes wisdom why are we not hearing your expert, in depth earth shaking dissertation on what is man , what is woman and what in fact do we want? I am waiting breathlessly to see shafts of light penetrating my thought when you speak.
so speak already, please and thank you. and from your heart.
starr, you more and more remind me of oh i don't know shall we say, a gangsta, albeit a nice one. I saw your picture, and i noticed the glasses, dark ones covering the eyes so we can't get a real handle on what those eyes, that face is saying. And only nice gangstas would go watch frankie and johnny on a saturday matinee special and sit in sticky seats thinking how freudian the picture is and how we women are total sterotypes, every last one of us. And what about that hooker in Central park, was she arguing with you about the movie as well. have you no mercy. i'll be you're an instant party crasher-even with girl pigeons.

[Koa]

Pardon me for stating the obvious, but no one who is 23 knows his destiny is to be single. Life is a long journey and the possibility of hot monkey love awaits around every corner.

Possibly, I'm not saying that I can't be proven wrong by life, but... I don't know, signs tell me I'm the eternal spinster kind. And I often feel too old to really appreciate it if something will happen. This must be how 90-year-old women feel right before dying... not much ahead, eh? ;)


A friend of mine once compared women to apples. The basic premise of his idea was that instead of climbing the tree to get the apples/women that are further to reach we settle to go for the "easier" women/apples which do not take as much effort to get. This makes the other apples/women feel that something is wrong with them which isnt the case, most men just arent willing to put in the extra effort to climb the tree. This probably covers both men and women however

Well I don't think your friend invented that cos I've heard this one before. And it's so very true...(well I'm sure that hot dumb chicks won't agree with me ;))... damn, this tree where I am must be kilometres high... *looks down* yeah, I can't see the ground :D

Sometimes though I feel that this is more true for women... I have the impression that in general women are more willing to climb high than men... which I migh have already mentioned, tend to be more coward. I'm not saying it's true for everyone nor that it's scientifically proven, just my impression... (I know many girls who have ugly girlfriends... I can't think of many boys who have ugly girlfriends, or if they do, the girl has at least some -ehm- physical attributes... if we are talking of quality related to highness/easiness anyway)

[michela]

I'm speechless ...
Just two things to add.
First of all in my opinion both men and women want to be loved "no matter what happen" and in addiction i do think that this occurs just because human kind are supposed to be in search of pleasure,and what could be better than love as pleasure?
Secondly if the man i'm in love with would be so lazy or coward to not climb high and take me the womanapple...then i'd just think that probablt that man wouldn't be the right one...and i'd look for a better one...'cause if women are apples....men are like doors, when one them is going to be closed another one is going to be opened!!!

[Virgil]

womanapple...

What a great phrase! Very poetic.

I'm willing to bet that Koa will not be a spinster. She will find the love of her life one day.

[emily655321]

I'll add to the womanapple analogy. There are plenty of men who not only will not climb to the top of the tree, but for whatever reason don't seem to notice that there are more womanapples up there. They just sort of look from side to side, see the womanapples directly in front of them, and pluck 'em, before they even take the time to see if there's something better higher up. And they don't notice that there are any other kind of men, because they look around and only see the other men who are going for the womanapples at eye-level; they don't realize that there are other men at the top of the tree.

So, what do I want? I want the sort of man who looks around at eye-level, at all the dumb bimbos and catty nagging women, and even at the nice-but-simple women, and says, "This can't be all there is. I want someone better than this. Someone I can have a conversation with. I think I'll look further up." And then he takes a climb, and he finds the people like Koa and me. :D

There are plenty of men like this, by the way. I'm friends with a lot of them. Most of my friends are male, and very intelligent, and find ditzy women boring and unattractive, which is why I take equal offense to assertions that all "men are pigs" as I do to those that all women are [fill-in-the-stereotype].

[Virgil]

If I weren't already married, I'd climb to the top of the tree for any of the ladies on this forum. Is that sucking up too much?

[RobinHood3000]

YES!! :p

Fortunately, this pencil-neck geek's literary persona has a rocket-powered hangglider with which to fly to the top of the tree.

...then again, getting there's part of the quest. Besides, I already have a beauteously sweet apple already.

[starrwriter]

If I weren't already married, I'd climb to the top of the tree for any of the ladies on this forum. Is that sucking up too much?
Yes. Please don't feed their egos.

[starrwriter]

Besides, I already have a beauteously sweet apple already.
Can other people see her?

[RobinHood3000]

YES, but you're not going to. She's MINE, I tell you!! MINE, ALL MINE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Virgil]

hehe, this reminds me of the cartoon where the normal looking chick is looking in the mirror and she shes an ugly hag, the next frame shows a balding, pudgy guy looking in the mirror and he sees a fit handsome man.

LOL. I've seen that. But in the context of this thread, what actually are you trying to say?

[starrwriter]

YES, but you're not going to. She's MINE, I tell you!! MINE, ALL MINE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
That's what I thought. Robin and his dream girl -- with the emphasis on dream.

[papayahed]

LOL. I've seen that. But in the context of this thread, what actually are you trying to say?

hmmmm I don't remember. I think it had something to do witht he way men see themselves and think they're "hunks".

[RobinHood3000]

Nonsense--we don't all think we're hunks. Some of us freely admit that we're nothing more than pencil-neck geeks.


...okay, ONE of us.

[Virgil]

hmmmm I don't remember. I think it had something to do witht he way men see themselves and think they're "hunks".

What do you mean, "think"? We know we are. Are is that just Italian men?

[starrwriter]

...it had something to do witht he way men see themselves and think they're "hunks".


What do you mean, "think"? We know we are.
I'll second that. Women are insecure about their looks (even attractive ones), which is why they are always preening. Men emphasize the positive and minimize the negative about their looks. A two-day beard and no socks makes a man feel like Don Johnson on "Miami Vice."

[samercury]

What do you mean, "think"? We know we are.

Are you laughing while saying that? :goof:

[papayahed]

I'll second that. Women are insecure about their looks (even attractive ones), which is why they are always preening. Men emphasize the positive and minimize the negative about their looks. A two-day beard and no socks makes a man feel like Don Johnson on "Miami Vice."

when in actuality they look like Ned the wino from "Good Times".. :nod:

[starrwriter]

when in actuality they look like Ned the wino from "Good Times"
Hogwash. If Brad Pitt is photographed unshaven and scruffy-looking, you women think he is soooo handsome.

The TV commercial is true. Men would rather set their shorts on fire or eat dirt than shave.

[Virgil]

Are you laughing while saying that? :goof:

Yes, only tongue in cheek. Another new avatar?

[smilingtearz]

women want to be cared for and pampered, they want a guy who can handle any situation sensibly and strongly, more like a protective figure...but not over-possesive and not curbing their freedom....that's what i think...


and what do men want?!?...all they want is....ummm...i rather not talk about this!

[RobinHood3000]

Actually, some "progressive" women want everything EXCEPT a man who will care for and pamper them as a protective figure, and will promptly chew out any man who attempts to assume such a role as oppressive.

[smilingtearz]

wait a minute...pampering and caring ARE NOT oppressive...oppressive are things that curb the woman from doing things the way she wants to... Anyone would hate an oppressive partner be it men or women!

I mean I'd hate it if my guy keeps a track of where i am and what im doing every minute! ...that doesn't mean caring...it means you've got nothing else to do!...so doesn't even make sense if i say mind your own buisness...the guy'd tell me...It is his buisness...Yea sure!

[Virgil]

women want to be cared for and pampered, they want a guy who can handle any situation sensibly and strongly, more like a protective figure...but not over-possesive and not curbing their freedom....that's what i think...


and what do men want?!?...all they want is....ummm...i rather not talk about this!

Men want to be pampered and cared for too.

[smilingtearz]

Reeeeeeeeaaaaaallly??

Im sorry didn't mean to sound sarcastic...but ...REEEEEAAALLYYY?


:D

[Virgil]

LOL. Yes reeeeaaaalllllyyyy. There is nothing better than my wife fixing me a nice dinner and massaging my shoulders and talking sweet. Of course after being married almost fifteen years, I can count the number of times she did that one hand. That's post marriage. It was quite frequent pre marriage. Oh, how you women change once you've gotten your hooks in us.

[Scheherazade]

women want to be cared for and pampered, they want a guy who can handle any situation sensibly and strongly, more like a protective figure...but not over-possesive and not curbing their freedom....that's what i think...I can't say I agree with this. Everyone has their limitations and men won't be able to handle every situation well either. Personally, someone who is able to admit their limitations and do not try to take control of every situation is more agreeable to me than someone who thinks he needs to assume a protective role.

Well, maybe one would like that if they have some kind of Electra complex...

As for pampering, I think we all like a little attention and spoiling at times.
and what do men want?!?...all they want is....ummm...i rather not talk about this!And this is the over simplification of the year! (I can say that easily since only couple of days left of the year! :p)

[starrwriter]

women want to be cared for and pampered, they want a guy who can handle any situation sensibly and strongly, more like a protective figure...but not over-possesive and not curbing their freedom...
To butcher an old saying, women want their cake to reappear magically after they eat it. They want what everyone wants in a relationship -- the upper hand, to be in control, to be the one who is loved and not necessarily the one who loves.

Your post reminds me of a scene from the Jules Ffeiffer play "Little Murders." After getting mugged for the umpteenth time, an apartment tenant begs a city official to institute dictatorial police powers amounting to martial law. "I want my freedom back!" he wails.

It's the same irony as you wanting protection and dedicated love from a guy who won't curb your freedom. My question is: freedom to do what? Fool around with other men?

[RobinHood3000]

And this is the over simplification of the year! (I can say that easily since only couple of days left of the year! :p)
Jell-O GOOD. Mud BAD.


Ha! I nullify your statement thus! :p

[Scheherazade]

So you agree with:
and what do men want?!?...all they want is....ummm...i rather not talk about this! ;)

[RobinHood3000]

Nooo, I'm making an even less valid oversimplication.

[Scheherazade]

Meanwhile, just so that you know... That wasn't jell-o, that was playdough!

But you probably like mud pies, too.

[Virgil]

Everyone has their limitations and men won't be able to handle every situation well either. Personally, someone who is able to admit their limitations and do not try to take control of every situation is more agreeable to me than someone who thinks he needs to assume a protective role.


"A man has got to know his limitations." Wasn't that from a Clint Eastwood movie? I tried looking it up, but no such luck. Anyone out therre know?

[RobinHood3000]

Well, something like it was in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels...

"My point is, Freddy, know YOUR limitations. You are a moron.

[Scheherazade]

"A man has got to know his limitations." Wasn't that from a Clint Eastwood movie? I tried looking it up, but no such luck. Anyone out therre know? It is from 'Magnum Force' according to imdb.

[Scheherazade]

Study to answer bum size puzzle

Women of various shapes and sizes are taking part in the study
Researchers at a Scottish university are aiming to answer the question - does my bum look big in this? Heriot-Watt University's School of Textiles and Design has launched what is believed to be the world's first study on how clothing affects the bum.

Four female models with various sized bottoms will wear different types of clothing as part of the research.

The study will examine how designs, colours, patterns and fabric types affect perception.

The university believes the research could have major implications for retailers.

Female volunteers wearing hundreds of different types of clothing will have their rears photographed for the research.

Participants will then be asked to look at the pictures to assess how big or small each model's backside appears.

Dr Lisa Macintyre, who is leading the research, said four models had been chosen to provide as representative as possible a sample of female rears.

One has a "standard" womanly backside while another has a much fuller "pre-Raphaelite" bum.

The academic said the third model was slim with a small bum while another had a curvier behind like singer Jennifer Lopez.

Dr Macintyre, 33, from Edinburgh, said: "There's much discussion in the media of clothing styles that flatter the body and it's generally accepted that enhancing body perception can improve confidence and self-esteem.

"But the factors behind this have never been fully investigated in a proper scientific manner.

"Designers and consumers don't currently have access to established information that could enable them to make or choose garments that enhance body size and shape.

"This study will provide for the first time detailed and usable information that would enable designers to make the clothes that help women make the most of their natural assets."

The results from the first phase of the study, which will look at how different styles of trouser affect the appearance of bottom size, are to be published in May.

Dr Macintyre, whose PhD was in dressings for burn scars, plans to apply for a government research grant to expand the study.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4563628.stm

[RobinHood3000]

Yeesh. I'd hate to be the PhD who introduces him/herself at parties as "The Bum Doctor."

"Oh, what is it you do for a living?"
"I classify backsides."
"...you know, if you admin a webcam site, you can just say so."
"No, seriously!"
"Riiiiiight...oh, look, Elvis! ~runs away~"

[rachel]

with all the poverty, disease, social unrest, abuse and neglect plus famines, earthquakes and floods overwhelming the face of t his earth and those groaning in agony upon it this study seems so sad.Oh if the money used on this could be used in my street ministry-I should weep buckets of tears of joy-regardless of how i look in my jeans.

[rachel]

I think Don Johnson is not attractive even clean shaven nor Brad Pitt. I hate unshaven appearance. The no socks thing, well in a hot clime I can understand .
I think that men and women are as varied and diverse as fingerprints. For me I could not stand a person that was ungracious unkind or thoughtless. Nor would I respect a man that tried to pamper me, yet closes his eyes to the suffering in this world and has no part in helping bring relief.But caring is a different matter. Just the little things make a world of difference for both men and women to do. Putting the other first, going without to give to the other, not bringing up mistakes or past hurts, and thinking the other beautiful and intelligent and wonderful-as is not as one would like to change them-for me that is important. I don't believe for a minute you or Virgil M'Lord are anything but lovely.And Starr too, I see under that shaggy hyde of yours. I think all of you in your own way are stellar. Perhaps a little rough on the edges, one of you at any rate, but still worth the effort to get to know.
All the girls on this forum are amazing, my opinion. Beauty, brains and moxy.

[Virgil]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4563628.stm

What about male bums? [Bums?, is this a British term. I think we say buns is the US, but I'm not always up on the latest slang.] Sounds like a sexist (tongue-in-cheek) study to me. Or should we speculate as to which of the genders is more self conscious.

[Anon22]

Yeah, we say buns... a bum is a homeless guy or something

[Virgil]

Thanks. Hey, I just noticed your cool signature. I have to remember that. Where is the quote from?

[Anon22]

Thanks. Hey, I just noticed your cool signature. I have to remember that. Where is the quote from?


I don't know, just something I thought up. I just changed it today, before it was:

"There's nothing scarier than to not have an emotion at all"

which I also thought up.

[Wirhe]

In other words, women want unconditional love from a man that lasts forever. My question is: how many men are able or willing to give that, even to a woman who looks as appealing as Michelle Pfeiffer?
That's fantasy world. I would much rather just take and leave than give and keep giving until you are a wreck yourself. And still she would want more. Thus it is better to let them serve you than be a servant yourself; no woman is worth half the trouble they bring in a permanent relationship. It's not like men even need them for anything else but sex and sex can be bought from the right places.

Ironically, many want to forbid prostitution -maybe because of this? ;)

[starrwriter]

Thus it is better to let them serve you than be a servant yourself; no woman is worth half the trouble they bring in a permanent relationship. It's not like men even need them for anything else but sex and sex can be bought from the right places. Ironically, many want to forbid prostitution -maybe because of this?
You are obviously a man who speaks his mind and doesn't mince words, but you are running through a minefield blind-folded. I know because I'm walking on stumps myself. The ladies at this forum are likely to pick your bones like harpies.

The bloodshed will commence soon, I'm sure.

[Virgil]

It's not like men even need them for anything else but sex and sex can be bought from the right places.

Ironically, many want to forbid prostitution -maybe because of this? ;)

Maybe prostitution is illegal in just about most places in the world because it is a degrading thing. Maybe to most, it's immoral. Maybe it's for losers, with a capital L.

BTW, next time you buy sex, make sure you're not buying any diseases that go along with it.

[starrwriter]

Maybe prostitution is illegal in just about most places in the world because it is a degrading thing. Maybe to most, it's immoral. Maybe it's for losers, with a capital L. BTW, next time you buy sex, make sure you're not buying any diseases that go along with it.
I usually agree with your opinions, Virgil, but not this time. Although protected sex is excellent advice to anyone nowadays, I don't think prostitution is morally wrong as long as the woman is an adult. I realize that some women resort to prostitution because they are trapped in poverty, but I've seen minimum-wage jobs that were just as degrading in a different way. I have never used the services of a prostitute myself, but I don't consider men who do losers.

One last comment: behind the moral prohibition against prostitution I sense a Puritanical judgment that sex in general is depraved. This is unhealthy nonsense.

[Pensive]

Hey starr, are you planning to start a WWS? (Women Welfare Society)

[RobinHood3000]

That's fantasy world. I would much rather just take and leave than give and keep giving until you are a wreck yourself. And still she would want more. Thus it is better to let them serve you than be a servant yourself; no woman is worth half the trouble they bring in a permanent relationship. It's not like men even need them for anything else but sex and sex can be bought from the right places.

Ironically, many want to forbid prostitution -maybe because of this? ;)
Spurned recently, are we? Because I don't know about you, but I derive a great deal of emotional satisfaction and contentment from talking with my girlfriend. You're right that she's not worth the trouble, because there IS no trouble; besides, such rare gems are beyond appraisal.

[rachel]

how beautiful M'Lord. And Wirhe I don't know why you say what you do so I will only reply I wish you found the person that would show you that you just might be very wrong.
Virgil, you have just completed my "like a dance" picture. thankyou.
Harpies Starr, that is not a very nice word. And how do you know what we will or won't do, can you add psychic to your incredible list of talents? you are sharp as a tack today, have you been using the magic whistle I gave you? It seems to be helping improve your memory at least.

[starrwriter]

Harpies Starr, that is not a very nice word. And how do you know what we will or won't do, can you add psychic to your incredible list of talents? you are sharp as a tack today, have you been using the magic whistle I gave you? It seems to be helping improve your memory at least.
A harpy is a bird of prey (eagle) in the tropics. I didn't want to say vultures because that word has a much more negative connotation. Perhaps I should have said raptors. People seem to accept raptors ever since the "Jurrassic Park" films.

My memory is perfect. It's the past that keeps changing.

[rachel]

Wirhe,
just wondering, are you a Mirkwood elf or what?

[Virgil]

IOne last comment: behind the moral prohibition against prostitution I sense a Puritanical judgment that sex in general is depraved. This is unhealthy nonsense.

Your sense is wrong. There is nothing immoral about sex in general (between adults of course). I'm no Puritan, but it doesn't take a Puritan to come to the conclusion that prostitution should be illegal. 99% of the free world still outlaws it, and most people are not Puritans. If you sensed passion in my words, it wasn't so much on the issue but more as a reaction to Wirhe's attitude.

[Anon22]

That's fantasy world. I would much rather just take and leave than give and keep giving until you are a wreck yourself. And still she would want more. Thus it is better to let them serve you than be a servant yourself; no woman is worth half the trouble they bring in a permanent relationship. It's not like men even need them for anything else but sex and sex can be bought from the right places.

Ironically, many want to forbid prostitution -maybe because of this? ;)

Your completely wrong. First, there's nothing wrong with giving, one who prefers to receive and receive is a selfish and self-centered person. Second, you speak as if all women have exactly the same minds. If they have exactly the same minds, then shouldn't we? Men don't all want the same things, so why should women? if that's the case, and it probably, no obviously, is... no one in this entire world (including animals) should have the same mind. Some women want more, but others don't, so it's not fair that you would treat the ones that can be easily satisfied and happy badly because of the ones that do want more. It's punishing someone for another's bad deed. Every person has a different mind because every person has had a different life, your experiences are different from my experiences, so life has taught you about women differently.

[emily655321]

It's the same irony as you wanting protection and dedicated love from a guy who won't curb your freedom. My question is: freedom to do what? Fool around with other men?
:lol: *Laughs, rolls on the ground laughing, gets up, wipes a tear, and laughs some more* :lol: :lol:

I'm sorry, Starr, but what you just said is of serious insult to both your personal intelligence and integrity. Believe it or not, there are things women enjoy doing besides man-catching. You must have really went after the lemons, man... I wish you only better luck in the future, though you might have to change your attitude first. Mistrust is too often a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Also, I agree with Sher when she said she doesn't want a "protector." I mean, I'm not always frigid and politically-correct; I think it's cute when my boyfriend can get things off high shelves for me, and then teases me about me being short; and I like that thing where we're walking on the sidewalk, and someone is coming the other way, and I move in front of him and he automatically puts his hand on my back to "guide" me—I think that's so cute!—; so, yeah, I like some of the "protective caretaker" stuff. It makes me feel... cared for. But I don't want someone to do everything for me—I insist on paying my half when we go out to eat, or to the movies. Sometimes he takes me out on "real dates" and pays for everything, but sometimes I take him out, too, and insist that he doesn't pay for himself. It's fun; I like feeling like a caretaker, too. I like doing silly domestic things, like baking cookies for him; but for a housewarming present, when I first moved into my apartment, he made me coconut macaroons, my favorite! And, again, we often get together just to cook together. I love a man that likes to cook!

I would hate, hate, hate to have a guy who is jealous and controlling; the type who would get in a fight with another man if he hit on me—or over anything, for that matter,—as if assuming that I would automatically go to any man who extended the opportunity, or that I was too weak-of-mind to tell someone off myself. That wouldn't make me feel cared for, it would make me feel like I was dating a possessive jerk. I like balance of power in a relationship. But, again, that doesn't mean I want to have power over the other person... Anyway, that's what I mean by "freedom;" the freedom to be my own person, and make decisions for myself. It's a shame if one views "freedom" as a kind of power game; that if one gives a partner freedom, he or she will only use it to hurt you. Personally, I don't view romance as a series of one-up-man-ships.

Who would have thought it would be so hard to describe such a basic idea as that of equality and mutual respect? I'm just sorry that some people can be so unlucky in love—or weak of character; take your pick—that bitterness utterly pollutes their opinion of women/men as a gender.

[papayahed]

Ha. I tried to read through what I've missed but I can't do it. I'm wondering if the gentlemen posting really feel that way or are just trying to start a war? If they do feel that way I'm wondering why they always pick the type of women they seem to be picking. And before anybody says all women are heartless shrews - that is untrue, all the women you choose to have relationships with are heartless shrews. The only constant in the long succession of women is you, so I'm thinking perhaps the problem may lie in yourselves?

[Virgil]

Actually, Papya, most of the men have been quite favorable towards women's sensitivities. Obviously not all.

[papayahed]

Actually, Papya, most of the men have been quite favorable towards women's sensitivities. Obviously not all.

Perhaps I missed those parts, I didn't say all the fellas that posted here, but there are several posts that are negative towards women, those are what I'm refering too.

[smilingtearz]

agree with papaya!

[Virgil]

agree with papaya!

Just off the top of my head, Robin, Digitalcrash, and myself have been supportive. At least that's my impression.

[Nightshade]

err yepp agreeing with virgil, your seeing more of the negitive papaya because it stands out more :nod:

[starrwriter]

:lol: *Laughs, rolls on the ground laughing, gets up, wipes a tear, and laughs some more* :lol: :lol:
I like to leave 'em rolling in the aisles.


Believe it or not, there are things women enjoy doing besides man-catching ...
I could live just fine with your definition of freedom. Unfortunately, I've known too many women (some of my own girlfriends and those of buddies) who thought freedom meant the right to mess around with other men while Mr. Boyfriend paid all the bills. And, yes, I had to peel the rind off of one or two of my "lovers." But I'm a sucker for gorgeous women.

[papayahed]

Just off the top of my head, Robin, Digitalcrash, and myself have been supportive. At least that's my impression.

I never said you guys haven't been supportive. I am only commenting on those who have written mostly negative comments.

[emily655321]

I'm a sucker for gorgeous women.
I'm wondering what your definition of "gorgeous" is, because I know plenty of attractive women who are not high-maintenance. The nice ones tend not to doll themselves up like hookers or movie starlets all the time, though, so I'm wondering if when you say "gorgeous," whether you actually just mean "lots of make-up and Gucci."

[rachel]

that is what I was wondering too.,Emily your description of you and your boyfriend was so healthy and wonderful and I have to agree that Starr perhaps has a habit of gong back to the same sort of person that wrecked his feelings to begin with . And perhaps the really sad thing is that he actually knows from the beginning that these 'gorgeous' girls are going to behave like that, wants what he wants from them and sure enough they act precisely like he thought they would because from the beginning they were that type of girl. So really they are honest because they didn't pretend anything else and he is less honest because he wants certain things but doesn't want any consequences from his actions. very interesting.

[starrwriter]

I'm wondering what your definition of "gorgeous" is ...
36-23-36, baby face, long black hair, dark brown eyes, perfect teeth and skin, 5 foot 9 inches tall -- a description of Leslie, who lived with me on Maui, is my definition. Then there was the young French woman from Paris who hit on me right after I broke it off with Leslie -- but you don't want to hear about all of my women, do you?


...because I know plenty of attractive women who are not high-maintenance.
I never met a single one -- and neither have any of my buddies (we discussed this topic many times.) In the women we have known maintenance was always in direct proportion to good looks. Perhaps your definition of attractive is different than mine.


The nice ones tend not to doll themselves up like hookers or movie starlets all the time, though, so I'm wondering if when you say "gorgeous," whether you actually just mean "lots of make-up and Gucci."
I hate make-up. The natural look is much more appealing.

[Nightshade]

36-23-36, baby face, long black hair, dark brown eyes, perfect teeth and skin, 5 foot 9 inches tall

And anyone like that exsists?!
:goof:
All I have to say is with expectatuiopns like that Star its no wonder you're dissapointed.
;)

[RobinHood3000]

36-23-36? Whoa, way to be a nonconformist, there, starr!

[Nightshade]

I am trying to picticure this and all I can think is "thats impossible" shell snap in half!
((g))
have to go mad computer says my break is over!

[Virgil]

And anyone like that exsists?!
:goof:
All I have to say is with expectatuiopns like that Star its no wonder you're dissapointed.
;)

They exist, but it's called implants and plastic surgery.

[RobinHood3000]

Incredibly enough, I believe Olivia Hussey (the actress who plays Juliet in Zefirelli's Romeo and Juliet) actually has the measurements 36-24-36. The Commodores have got her number, that's for sure...

[Virgil]

Oh, I'm sure there are women out there who naturally have those measurements. But not all that common, and why would they go with Star (isn't he over sixty?) unless he had a lot of money.

[RobinHood3000]

Given that he's retired, I don't see that happening--wait, does Hawaii have a lottery?

[rachel]

Olivia Hussey is my all time favorite actress. I love her beauty, her genteel manner and her intelligence.
I wonder at you there Starr, now you must take off your glasses. Are you the equivalent in beauty of these ladies you adore? or do you make up for it with money and are there a shortage of eligible guys in Hawaii that can at least sort of take care of their lady financially and socially, because Hawaii seems very social to me.
If these beautiful girls are your ideal why is it when you find them they never hang around much longer than the blink of an eye.
I am curious to know what attracts the ladies to you, if you don't mind me asking.

[emily655321]

Ooh, I think we've hit the nail on the head. :nod: There are nice beautiful women out there, but for some reason the only beautiful women who go to Starr are the ones just looking for money. Which he must have, if he's in his 50's and already in retirement in Hawaii. No wonder Starr thinks all women are money-grubbing cheaters! It also explains why all the beautiful women he meets are high-maintenance: the only lovely women coming his way are the gold-diggers. They go to him for his money, and then to someone else for love.

Have I cracked the case? Poor Starr. You should give a woman your own age a try (which I assume you haven't, since you go for the 36-23-36's). There may be a sweet wonderful retirement partner pining away for you that you don't even know about.

[starrwriter]

36-23-36? Whoa, way to be a nonconformist, there, starr!
I can tell you've never had a sexy girlfriend.

[starrwriter]

Ooh, I think we've hit the nail on the head. :nod: There are nice beautiful women out there, but for some reason the only beautiful women who go to Starr are the ones just looking for money. Which he must have, if he's in his 50's and already in retirement in Hawaii. No wonder Starr thinks all women are money-grubbing cheaters! It also explains why all the beautiful women he meets are high-maintenance: the only lovely women coming his way are the gold-diggers. They go to him for his money, and then to someone else for love.
What in the world are you blathering about? I never said a single word about money grubbers or gold diggers. No woman ever took me for money.

Earth to Emily! Come down and join the rest of us.

[RobinHood3000]

Then you need to get your eyes checked, old-timer, because my girlfriend is a STUNNER.

[starrwriter]

I am curious to know what attracts the ladies to you, if you don't mind me asking.
Rugged handsomeness, intelligence, wit, charm and I'm very good between the sheets.

[starrwriter]

Then you need to get your eyes checked, because my girlfriend is a stunner.
I guess that's why you have plastered her photo all over this forum.
*Laughs derisively*

[RobinHood3000]

Noooo, I keep her photo to myself because I fear she'll be tracked down by lecherous old geezers with too much spare time on their hands. :p

[starrwriter]

Noooo, I keep her photo to myself because I fear she'll be tracked down by lecherous old geezers with too much spare time on their hands.
Uh-huh. Are you sure other people can see this so-called girlfriend?

[RobinHood3000]

Yes, but with guys like you on the loose, sometimes I'd rather that not be the case.

[Nightshade]

pufffffft :rolleyes:

[Outlander]

Women, want men like Starr to have a reality check.
*also-
They should be forced to undergo surgery and live as visually unappealing females.

Your Ego is repulsive.

[EAP]

This thread is comedy gold.

[Pensive]

EAP has posted in "General Chat" :eek:

[rachel]

Starr while those characteristics you name for attracting ladies to you are okay I note that there is nothing enduring, nothing noble and from the heart. I take it you enjoy women who live for nothing and contribute nothing of lasting value to humanity the same as you make yourself out to do. That is so superficial and sad and I can see why things would get stale rapidly and the girls move on. Not that they are any better than you if this be the case. To have lived one's life and deteriorate toward mankind instead of building it up and to leave that for one's legacy seems such a waste of a precious life. and I am in no way trying to be smart or unkind. I just believe there is so much more to you than any of that. for instance what if you were in a terrible accident and couldn't do any of that superficial stuff any longer what would you have to give that mattered to those same ladies. I am just wondering.

[starrwriter]

Women, want men like Starr to have a reality check.
*Starrwriter checks reality and finds it consistent with his view of things*


*also-They should be forced to undergo surgery and live as visually unappealing females.
Easy there, Dr. Mengele.


Your Ego is repulsive.
I guess that rules out a date between us, huh?

[starrwriter]

Starr while those characteristics you name for attracting ladies to you are okay I note that there is nothing enduring, nothing noble and from the heart. I take it you enjoy women who live for nothing and contribute nothing of lasting value to humanity the same as you make yourself out to do. That is so superficial and sad and I can see why things would get stale rapidly and the girls move on. Not that they are any better than you if this be the case. To have lived one's life and deteriorate toward mankind instead of building it up and to leave that for one's legacy seems such a waste of a precious life. and I am in no way trying to be smart or unkind. I just believe there is so much more to you than any of that. for instance what if you were in a terrible accident and couldn't do any of that superficial stuff any longer what would you have to give that mattered to those same ladies. I am just wondering.
Rachel, you need to think less with your heart and more with your funny bone. You take everything I say far too seriously.

[emily655321]

Rachel, you need to think less with your heart and more with your funny bone. You take everything I say far too seriously.
Women like men who think with their heart. In case you wanted to try that sometime. Just to see how it works.

[starrwriter]

Women like men who think with their heart.
Yeah, I know. I use to wear my heart on my sleeve until I found out it was easier for women to step on there. Now it's back behind my rib cage, right next to my gizzard where it belongs.

[papayahed]

Yeah, I know. I use to wear my heart on my sleeve until I found out it was easier for women to step on there. Now it's back behind my rib cage, right next to my gizzard where it belongs.

do humans have gizzards? I thought that was just chickens and worms...

[starrwriter]

do humans have gizzards? I thought that was just chickens and worms...
Worms -- good one. You're very sharp this morning, Papayahed (although you posted your dream in the WRONG thread.)

If you must know, I had a rooster gizzard implanted in me. It uses small stones to grind up the facts of daily life and arrive at the truth of things. This protects me from getting rasped by the Great Gizzard of Hen Opinions.

[samercury]

This protects me from getting rasped by the Great Gizzard of Hen Opinions.

I think that it's the other way around....

[Logos]

You know, if it was anyone else I'd probably have locked this topic by now, but methinks that our resident Curmudgeon enjoys the heat :lol:

[starrwriter]

You know, if it was anyone else I'd probably have locked this topic by now, but methinks that our resident Curmudgeon enjoys the heat :lol:
At last a woman who understands me!!!

[Nightshade]

You know I think everyone chould ease up on star sure his opiniojns and lets face it taste do not reflect him or in fact were I an alien conducting a field study The whole of humanity in a good light, but everyone is intiled a lapse in some are me thinks, I like to go round in oversized mens shirtsodd socks and builders boots doesnt mean Im, a bad person.
And Im quite sure were anyone to attempt to rip out my ego and examine it theyd also find it quite repulisive.

:D

[rachel]

I think we should all have our quirks and opinions but we also have a responsibility to keep this forum a place that teachers and parents would be okay having their kids visit.
I guess when I first came on Mono and others like you gave this forum such a good and nurturing feeling.And now I don't know, it seems grey and soiled somehow. But that is just my opinion. I can always leave can't I? I mean if everyone else is okay with all this, and I don't mean just Starr's being feisty, that is challenging and fun, but other stuff, if everyone is okay with it and I am not then it is only fair and unselfish that I leave. Otherwise I am wrecking the fun for others.

[smilingtearz]

then it is only fair and unselfish that I leave. Otherwise I am wrecking the fun for others.

Its not!...you're one of the best people around!!

[Outlander]

Originaly Posted by Starrwriter
Easy there, Dr. Mengele.
I have High Aspirations.


Originaly Posted by Starrwriter
I guess that rules out a date between us, huh?

uh....Dude? Your not my type.

But, now..we know why you have so many issues with women,
and why your compensating.

It's ok old man,
Keep writing about womanizing, and we may all soon forget about your forthcoming denial.

[Pensive]

I think we should all have our quirks and opinions but we also have a responsibility to keep this forum a place that teachers and parents would be okay having their kids visit.

:nod:

Very right!

[Virgil]

I can always leave can't I? I mean if everyone else is okay with all this, and I don't mean just Starr's being feisty, that is challenging and fun, but other stuff, if everyone is okay with it and I am not then it is only fair and unselfish that I leave. Otherwise I am wrecking the fun for others.

Don't you dare leave.

But in fairness to Star, he doesn't cross the line too much, he only taps his foot over it, as if he's checking the temperature of the ocean. Rachel is needed to make sure Star doesn't take full steps in and wade. Actually, to complete the metaphor, if unchecked I can see Star diving in wholeheartedly.

[Nightshade]

I think we should all have our quirks and opinions but we also have a responsibility to keep this forum a place that teachers and parents would be okay having their kids visit.
I guess when I first came on Mono and others like you gave this forum such a good and nurturing feeling.And now I don't know, it seems grey and soiled somehow. But that is just my opinion. I can always leave can't I? I mean if everyone else is okay with all this, and I don't mean just Starr's being feisty, that is challenging and fun, but other stuff, if everyone is okay with it and I am not then it is only fair and unselfish that I leave. Otherwise I am wrecking the fun for others.
oh no! you cant leave!!!!
Youre one of the lovliest people here! and Yes I know what you mean and yes we have that responsibility but what I think is give people enough rope and if they are stupid enough to use it well
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/sad/533.gif
But while I’m on it yes sometimes Star you do go to far as far as I’m concerned but its not my place to tell you off.
And please people this has become the most miserable thread in the forum when it was all nice and happy before can we all just call a truce?
No more muck throwing on either side, ok?
And sorry for sticking my oar in and if you want to take me up on it PM me I’m not coming back to this thread in future....
Stamps out and slams proverbial, metaphorical and imaginary door.

[Scheherazade]

This Forum is aimed for all age groups and people from all walks of life; we all work hard to provide a welcoming atmosphere for all. However, it is hard to offer a tailor-made Forum satisfying individual needs and expectations of every single one of us... which is why we have the option to ignore certain thread and/or members if they disagrees with your tastes in anyway.

I don't think we should single out individuals or make them scapegoats for certain situations that arise as a result of contributions of all. If anyone feels personally targetted or offended by another member's post(s), they do know that there is a facility to report such posts to the Moderators and the Admin.

[Pensive]

Rachel, Don't leave. Look! If you don't like certain threads, you can ignore them. In life, in several places we have to disagree with each other but it does not mean that we should leave. Its just life. Don't take on heart what people says.

Now, now, man don't be angry and keep on posting. Many of us wants you to stay and share your wisdom with us. I have learned a lot of things from you.

[starrwriter]

Your not my type. But, now..we know why you have so many issues with women, and why your compensating. It's ok old man,
Keep writing about womanizing, and we may all soon forget about your forthcoming denial.
I was obviously being facetious and it went right over his pointy little head.

[Logos]

Maybe it's time for everybody to read Ye Olde Forum Rules again, you know, that linky poo in my sig that's covered in dead nanobyte dust right now ;)

[RobinHood3000]

I agree with Nightshade and Virgil--PLEASE STAY, RACHEL!

[coreyg37]

chaucer was right in showing what women want through, most notably, the wife of bath. Women want sovereignty. Thats it.

[chmpman]

Yea!!! a post that actually refers to literature, been awhile.

[rachel]

Thank you, I acted wrongly out of pain of h eart for the very young having to read certain things. It won't happen again.
you are all so kind, I in no way deserve your loyalty. But I shall treasure your words in my heart and guard them for always.

[chmpman]

I think Madame Bovary would be an interesting read concerning the topic at the head of this thread. She is a woman who is unsatisfied living the traditional role of housewife and mother to an up-and-coming doctor in early 1800s France. She amuses herself in books and the fanciful, and comes to regret her own reality. Anyone have any comments concerning this work, or any other, and this thread's topic?

[smilingtearz]

chaucer was right in showing what women want through, most notably, the wife of bath. Women want sovereignty. Thats it.

i find that text way too anti-feminist. Chaucer's been really clever in presenting anti-feminist ideas and made Alison prove those "theories"

though i don't deny the fact that women want sovereignity

[rachel]

I agree with Eva, I think Chaucer had a certain contempt of females, perhaps justifyably so, I am in no position to judge that. But it colors what he writes in a distinctive way.

[emily655321]

I wasn't going to say anything, but I'm glad someone else recognized the aburdity in the use of a male-written female character to exemplify universal female opinion. :p I know you didn't mean it so seriously, coreyg37, but I found it amusing.

[starrwriter]

I wasn't going to say anything, but I'm glad someone else recognized the aburdity in the use of a male-written female character to exemplify universal female opinion.
And vice-versa, Emily. Don't forget that.

[emily655321]

Um... what's the vice-versa?

[starrwriter]

Um... what's the vice-versa?
Female authors writing men characters to exemplify a universal male attitude. I can think of a few who did exactly that.

[Virgil]

And vice-versa, Emily. Don't forget that.
Emily - I agree with Star. When male writers dominated prior to this century they probably weren't always sensitive to female characters. But in this century, female writers haven't always been fair to male characters. But I feel on balance everybody exaggerates the issue.

[emily655321]

Female authors writing men characters to exemplify a universal male attitude. I can think of a few who did exactly that.Well, duh, and they're just as stupid as the male authors. Two wrongs don't make a good argument.

I'm not a card-carrying member of the "sisterhood." The majority of women are just as vapid as the majority of men, and it aggravates me when either side points fingers.

[Scheherazade]

I can't speak for the rest of women but this particular one wants some ice cream!

*toddles to the kitchen to get some*

[RobinHood3000]

Bon appetit, madamoiselle...

[Jay]

Don't worry, madamoiselle's not sharing! :p

[Scheherazade]

Don't worry, madamoiselle's not sharing! :p*gasps and shakes her head in disbelief*

More rumours, I see! Just shared it with you, haven't I??

[Jay]

I have only seen you showing that ice creams at your webcam! How's that sharing? *sulks*

[emily655321]

I can't speak for the rest of women but this particular one wants some ice cream!I love how tactfully subtle your peacekeeping tactics are. :p

[Scheherazade]

I love how tactfully subtle your peacekeeping tactics are. :pOh, you give me too much credit!

;)

[starrwriter]

Well, duh, and they're just as stupid as the male authors. Two wrongs don't make a good argument. I'm not a card-carrying member of the "sisterhood." The majority of women are just as vapid as the majority of men, and it aggravates me when either side points fingers.
I like the cut of your jib, Emily. If you were a boat, I would describe you as yar.

[smilingtearz]

I like the cut of your jib, Emily. If you were a boat, I would describe you as yar.

Such words (and observations and suppositions) can only come from starr...:p

[rachel]

I think Scher and Emily would make an excellent counselling couple. sort of like good cop bad cop.Em could hit them hard with her keen razor sharp mind and before they(clients) could complain Scher would offer them some Haagendas and talk about the bloody weather. They'd rake in millions and be seen as totally genious.

[RobinHood3000]

Not to mention that dear ol' Ben and Jerry would probably offer them free ice cream for life.

[emily655321]

I like the cut of your jib, Emily. If you were a boat, I would describe you as yar.Yay, "jib."


Not to mention that dear ol' Ben and Jerry would probably offer them free ice cream for life.Yay, ice cream.

:D

[starrwriter]

Such words (and observations and suppositions) can only come from starr...
I am a master of the written word, after all.

Since Scher has already made an issue out of my post in a PM to me, let me explain my inspiration:

Emily understands what a jib is and presumably knows that "liking the cut of your jib" is not an offensive or sexual remark. It's sailing lingo that means (metaphorically) to agree with someone's attitude.

Yar describes a boat in perfect condition and I borrowed the word from the 1930s film "The Philadelphia Story."

I see a time coming when we will be asked to dumb down our posts so as not to raise the supicions of moderators. Brace yourselves for the day. I won't be here any longer.

[Scheherazade]

English is my second language and I try not to be too shy to ask about the things I don't understand (rather than assuming or pretending), like terms 'jib' and 'yar' ('yar' does not even exist in Cambridge Online Dictionary). However, it seems like some people are too self conscious and defensive to explain a specific term without making a martyr of themselves.

We all have to justify our existence after all!

[emily655321]

That's understandable, Scher. No worries.

[Virgil]

However, it seems like some of us are too self conscious and defensive to explain a specific term without making a martyr of themselves.

Good for you, Scher. Being shy about asking questions, even if those around you seem to think it's obvious, is silly and counterproductive. In school I was always one of those who raised their hand often, perhaps uncomfortably frequent for some, to ask a question. Even at work I am the one who is always asking questions, dsespite whether its obvious or not. A buddy of mine at work once folded up a card and placed in front of me at a conference table labeled "The Asker of Stupid Questions". Believe it or not, I'm very proud of that label. You don't know how many times people have come up afterwards and said they were glad I asked the question. What seems obvious may not always be obvious to everyone. I don't know how many times I've kept a project on the correct path because I asked a question, because what was obvious to some was not to others, because epople had made different assumptions.

[smilingtearz]

I see a time coming when we will be asked to dumb down our posts so as not to raise the supicions of moderators. Brace yourselves for the day. I won't be here any longer.

Why did I have to open my stupid mouth!!*slaps her forehead*

[papayahed]

OK, I know what I want. In addition to my very first post on this thread, and I know this will sound bad, but I want (and it doesn't even have to be a guy) someone to take care of my finances for me. I want someone to say, here is what you can spend this week on the basics, this is what you can spend on non basics. Then I want them to make sure my bills are paid and make sure I'm putting money into a savings. Of course it would be foolish not to check on this person, which of course I would do....I realize that these people are called accountants and financial advisors, but I don't want something that formal.

[Logos]

I see a time coming when we will be asked to dumb down our posts so as not to raise the supicions of moderators. Brace yourselves for the day. I won't be here any longer.

Hey c'mon, we're just here to try to promote a decent atmosphere where everyone can feel comfortable to contribute.

[RobinHood3000]

OK, I know what I want. In addition to my very first post on this thread, and I know this will sound bad, but I want (and it doesn't even have to be a guy) someone to take care of my finances for me. I want someone to say, here is what you can spend this week on the basics, this is what you can spend on non basics. Then I want them to make sure my bills are paid and make sure I'm putting money into a savings. Of course it would be foolish not to check on this person, which of course I would do....I realize that these people are called accountants and financial advisors, but I don't want something that formal.
You could kill a a flock of birds with one stone and marry a predictable, feminine-yet-chivalric accountant. Who maybe has hair like Beaker.

[starrwriter]

Hey c'mon, we're just here to try to promote a decent atmosphere where everyone can feel comfortable to contribute.
Another left-handed slur on my moral character. What's indecent about my using a metaphor of sailing jargon to compliment Emily on being level headed? You moderators are so intent on finding moral turpitude in posts you are seeing it where none exists.

Everyone is already free to contribute to this forum. Whether they feel comfortable or not in doing so is entirely up to them.

[emily655321]

Hey c'mon, we're just here to try to promote a decent atmosphere where everyone can feel comfortable to contribute.

Another left-handed slur on my moral character. What's indecent about my using a metaphor of sailing jargon to compliment Emily on being level headed? You moderators are so intent on finding moral turpitude in posts you are seeing it where none exists.Yo! I'm putting a stop to this. It was a simple misunderstanding. Everyone just cool their jets, all right? That's it. No more discussing it. PM each other if you want.

[Logos]

Another left-handed slur on my moral character. What's indecent about my using a metaphor of sailing jargon to compliment Emily on being level headed? You moderators are so intent on finding moral turpitude in posts you are seeing it where none exists.



I don't know why you have this persecution complex, my use of "decent" was meant as in "cool" or "kind and obliging".

What was PMed between you and Scher about jargon and such has nothing to do with me.

I have never made any judgement about you and your morals, and I would hope you feel no reason to get "personal" with me, as I haven't with you.

[Logos]

Yo! I'm putting a stop to this. It was a simple misunderstanding. Everyone just cool their jets, all right? That's it. No more discussing it. PM each other if you want.

My use of "decent" sure was a misunderstanding :)

On that note, topic closed.

If anyone has a problem with a Moderator, you can PM them.

If anyone wants to start this topic again, sans bickering, feel free to do so :)