Halloween Read: The Legend of Sleepy Hollow

[Nightshade]

Ok this thread is for the halloween read on halloween since Sleepy hollow is so short . Please dont start discussing before then or read it
On that point here are 2 formats of Sleepy Hollow
<edit>
Lets link to this site before it's competitors eh?
http://www.online-literature.com/irving/geoffrey_crayon/32/
</edit>

hummmm maybe we could all read it at the same time hummm
Ok whose going join in???

[B-Mental]

100% agreement on the poll, I am a majority.:D

When do we start to read this?

[Nightshade]

on the 31st its tiny will probably take a couple of hours if you stop after every pargraph and may I add how do you know you preffered the film when you havent read it yet oor have you??

[Darlin]

I'm in. It's something I wouldn't normally read and sounds like fun. Good idea, Lady of the Smilies! :banana:

[Nightshade]

Jay!!!! How dare you vote without posting?? you are going to read it though you vote you read thats the rule in my little thread:brow:

[Scheherazade]

Jay!!!! How dare you vote without posting?? you are going to read it though you vote you read thats the rule in my little thread:brow:Maybe we should consider this rule for the Book Club as well! :p

I wouldn't mind doing this either but what about the time difference?

[PeterL]

That's a better story than I had remembered.

[Mark F.]

The short story bored me even though I read it twice, I really prefered the film which is strange cause I rarely find any interest in film adaptations.

[Nightshade]

I wouldn't mind doing this either but what about the time difference?
Well thats why I want to know who wants to join in then I can figure out time differances and decide on a time-also as the31st is a monday it will be on the30th

:D

[rachel]

I am in, just tell us what to do firmly as we are all rather like like two year olds sometimes, except Scher who is my idol, and are liable to to it all wrong without your explicit rules and guidance. i am looking forward to this, haven't read it since i don't know when and don't honestly remember that much.

"you're hopeless charlie brown just hopeless" lucy

[Nightshade]

Ok *claps hands for attention*
we are going to read sleepy hollow prefebly on the 29th or the 30 so its fresh in peoples minds!
if you have read it already DO NOT DISCUSS TILL THE 30TH
and stop voting!! please!
then Im not sure should we try to discuss it all at once on the forum? or should we do it via msn like the Live chat in the forum??
or should we have a sort of drop in anytime on the 30th and 31st???
humm please tell me your prefernces!:D

[PeterL]

Another of Washington Irving's humorous stories. I have never met a poor Van Winkle, but I have met several who were quite well off.
http://www.online-literature.com/irving/geoffrey_crayon/4/

[Aurora Ariel]

Has anyone seen one of the film versions of The Legend of Sleepy Hollow?
I have never actually read the book myself, but remember seeing the most recent film version years ago.It had Christina Ricci and Johnny Deep if I remember correctly.Apparently, there is also an older version which came out in 1958.Has anyone else seen either?I didn't mind the film, it was quite thrilling story set in another era and featured many scenes around this mysterious forest.There was this one scene where he comes on the horse, which was epecially atmospheric and very chilling in a Gothic kind of way.
It was rather enjoyable on the whole, but it has been quite a while since I watched it originally.But now I will consider reading the book.

[rachel]

it is fun to think of having a live chat, but it seems like anything that can go wrong does and then noone or only one person shows up. so i like the idea of dropping in, it's not as exciting perhaps but it will still get the job done.
thankyou Nightshade for setting this up. it will be such fun.

"the other eleven apostles can do what they want but this money is coming home with us" rat race.

[Erna]

I'm in. Didn't vote for it, but sounds like fun and I didn't read anything of Washington Irving.

[Jay]

Night:
I've already read it and prefered the movie, didn't know one has to post upon voting :p, it's not mentioned in your rules :D... well, not before I voted ;)

[Nightshade]

:eek: sombody edited my post and it wasnt me:eek2:!!
PS 'O whosoever did edit my post' I didnt link to this site because I couldnt find sleepy hollow here!
:D

[Psycheinaboat]

I'll be here! I've never read Sleepy Hollow, so this is a treat!

[Kaltrina]

I'm in. I have seen the movie and I can't wait to read it. so count me in Night. great idea btw. :D

[Nightshade]

OK people there has been a slight and i| mean slight change of plans so here it goes!
- on the 29th at 2300 GMT (this is a sat night) I will have a live chat concluding when I am finally too tierd to stay up or am booted off the computer -whichever comes first!
_ Hopefully as we are going along I will be able to copy and past so we will have the discussion on the forum too then on sun and mon discussion on forum will continue until tuesday!¬!

is that understandable??
so Ill be PMing everyone who has said there in later on as Im at work at the mo and only on a 15 minute break!#
:D

[Kaltrina]

Night I don't think I can make it that night because it's to late but I can join on Monday in the morning... is that ok? I'm not backing out.... I just can't

[B-Mental]

I think it will have to be a round the clock read Kaltrina. I'm always on such opposite hours from everyone, but I know some people will be on the forum.

[Kaltrina]

But I don't understand. I'm 6 hours before some places in America and 1 hour before London so I don't know... i guess I didn't understand it so good. could someone explain?
:confused: :blush:

[Nightshade]

Ok Kaltrina this is how itll work I chose sat night because for most people they can stay up late! So At 2300 GMT it will be sunday morning in australia so anyone from there can join in (if they are willing to get up) and early evening in the US while us poor lot who are closer to the GMT line mostly get sundays off so can stay up all night chatting. Then as we go along Ill copy and paste it on here so from sunday 30th people can keep talking on the forum when the live chat is finished, is that clearer?
On that note if you PM me your time line and Msn address everyone Ill send you back the time wherever you are!
I love organising things:nod:

[Erna]

I don't think I'll be only, living in a GMT+2 zone (what will change that night into a GMT+1 zone, strange Europeans with their summer/winter time ;)) so it's 1 o'clock in the night for me (if I did do the computations right....)

[Kiwi Shelf]

I can't believe people haven't read this before, I did it my second year of university. I thought it was a good read.

(I wonder when the last time I posted on here was...)

[Nightshade]

Does that mean your in Kiwi Shelf?
:D
Everyone else check your PMs :D

[Jay]

Why? :D
:angel:

[Kiwi Shelf]

BTW, there are two Sleepy Hollow movies. A cartoon and the one with Johnny Depp. I am trying to remember the name of the cartoon, I don't think it is just "Sleepy Hollow" Anyways, the cartoon follows the book better. The Johnny Depp movie is actually not very close to the story.

I have read it, so I suppose I am in. Just what exactly am I agreeing to?

[Nightshade]

:brow: live chat not discussing till the I say so oh yes and following the discussion on the 29tgh, 30th and 31st
:D

[Psycheinaboat]

I remember the cartoon. Bing Crosby narrates and sings the story. I usually hate the way Disney perverts fairytales and legends, but I liked the Sleepyhollow adaptation.

I have read half of the story and the cartoon does follow it pretty well so far.

[Kiwi Shelf]

Okay, I will not say a word about it

[Nightshade]

OK you may all start reading now :D
and if you are coming to the live chat think of at least one thought provking thought before hand ( I was going to say and not a Depp comment either but I guess I will allow that:lol: )
Can everyone coming to the live chat PM me your ahh approximate location ( so I can translate the tiime for you :D)
Well unless youve already figured it out !!

[Nightshade]

this is basically a BUMP message
so thans everyone wh PMmed me back whether you are coming or not to the live chat tommorow at 2300 GMT wich equals
1800 New York, and montreal time (est??)
900 (sunday morning)( ithink) sydney australia
I think that about covers it :D
If anyone is still unsure Pm me and ill work it out :D

[B-Mental]

Hi Nightshade, I don't have an MSN account, I'm on yahoo.

[Nightshade]

hey if you get this B-mental Yahoo can be used on MSN!
:D

[Psycheinaboat]

Can you post a link to the chat?

Thanks!

[Nightshade]

well here are my start off thoughts about the story

1. “Women are the source of all evil”. Is this true here?
2. Vanity as in icabond, bones, and Katrina?
3. Is Icabopnd crane likable?
4. Sarcasm and satire?
5. Bones?
6. Adaptations---please limit the Johnny Depp-ying ;)
7. Katrina Van Tassel?
8. High German doctor reference To Mesmer?
9. Is it just about the power of superstion?

[PeterL]

well here are my start off thoughts about the story
3. Is Ichabod crane likable?
4. Sarcasm and satire?
8. High German doctor reference To Mesmer?
9. Is it just about the power of superstion?


Ichabod Crane was quite likeable, and he won. He is a heroic character, because he didn't get stuck with Katrina, and he got out of Sleepy Hollow, and he had some success after leaving.

The story is almost as tongue in cheek as Rip van Winkle. I didn't laugh out loud, be I found it quite amusing.

Franz Anton Mesmer was born in 1734, so he would have been roughly contemporary with the story, and his work would have been known to Washington Irving, but he was well after the time that would have been " the early days of the settlement". I consider the "high German doctor" to be a fictional item.

The story is only peripherally about superstition. The main plot is about the success of Ichabod Crane "for a country schoolmaster to be refused the hand of a Dutch heiress is a certain step to high preferment in the state."

[Nightshade]

does anyone like Icabond
me its a big fat no
hes yuckkkk
hes vain and a hypocrite
and he fell in love with her because he wanted her
land

for once I'm not that big a fan of corporal punishment
and when it's actually practised why play nice when
everyone knows they offspring get... friendly with the rod

good point

her reminds me of a lot of jerks i know. he is
selfish, shallow, a golddigger and really ugly!

ok that a good opinion that lead straight to the
next q which is
Do uyou think the whole thing is a satire?

yes of course

so Irving makes sure we dont like Ichabod

yes so is it satire??
irony sarcasm whatever its called?

he surely has a tongue in cheek attitude towards
him
and the way he spreads the rumours

uh-uh*nods*
so he doesnt like him??
or does he?

ichabod is merely more than a caricature, I think
so we are not expected to like him

it has to be a sort of spoof, i mean the way they
describe that guy, compared to brom he is utterly
repulsive, no matter how sweet his voice is in the choir.
it sort of reminds me of shrek, how they take all the
faerie tales and make a spoof of them.

he is not hero material

*agrees *

exactly hes just yuck

he is not yuck
he is a parody
simply funny

not at all he is such a user and an opportunist,
always looking for the next meal, seeing katrina as a means
to an end, all luxury living for him.

and hes full of himself

whcih makes him even funnier

well he is certainly full of something, i'll give
you that!

hehe

hum yes maybe he is funny but he annoyed me (i was expectting a depp carcterr)
carachter
ohh I cant spetlllit

i will admit the way he dances and fascinates all
the black servants is sort of well admirable, this tall
thin bag of bones gyrating all over the place.
interesting.yah i am sure katrina fell 'head over heels'
for the bum

err anyone here know when the civil war was??

1865-69?
or there abouts?

might be relevant although even the yankees thought
the ex-slave to be poor dumb creatures
so not before he died

well the description of them is to me rather
demeaning even if it is meant to be a compliment. icannot imagine even back then any black person being enamoured by
a white guy's dancing. it is just how i feel.

interesting so does this em.. mean maybe that he was
trying to what? lower crane??

i havent seen the movie crane is depp?

[Nightshade]

i think so because icahbod had such a high opinion
of himself and perhaps, just perhaps the black participants
were actually laughing AT him

the whole thing is so funny
i cant believe it is considered a scary story

whats funny?

the story

yes thats why Im saying is it a satire

satire of what?
ohh i dont know that part of the Us where is it
anyway

and the women miostly the women I think

NY me thinks

the story is mostly about and aimed at them

state not city

i think it might be a spoof of all the witchy things
that really were supposed to have occured through the U.S.
and back then, at least according to books i have read,
people were very spiritual and believed deeply in signs and
portents and every strange thing that occured, always
ascribing to it a supernatural cause. and it wrecked many
people's lives because they were sort of like the horoscope
readers of today that swear by them and live by
them. it is just a thought. perhaps irving thought is
slightly mad, who knows

yes andd that lead to another question but did
anyone notice the mention of high german doctor?
anyway Mesmer ( of Animal mesmerism 0 from whom we
get the word mesmerise
hypnosiss actually
was around oh at the time Irving was in his youth
so I though could it be a snide remark aboutr him,?

very interesting

what does all crane's eating and enormous appetite
signify anyway?

The seven deadly sins!! ( always usefull in literature:brow:)

do you think he really has a heart, i mean does he
actually care for anyone but himself on any level.?

pride,greed,lust anger,gluttony, envy and sloth or
laziness,oh that seven.
yupp

so is icabond like all good caricture a big
exageration of somthing and in this case what and can we
connect him to the seven?
or iis Bones rage?

Such was the formidable rival with whom Ichabod
Crane had to contend, and, considering all things, a
stouter man than he would have shrunk from the competition,
and a wiser man would have despaired. He had, however, a
happy mixture of pliability and perseverance in his nature;
he was in form and spirit like a supple-jack—yielding, but
tough; though he bent, he never broke; and though he bowed
beneath the slightest pressure, yet, the moment it was
away—jerk!—he was as erect, and carried his head as high as
ever.
this passage is so funny

why is that passage funny?

it is so sarcastic
so... tongue in cheek!

[Nightshade]

well the list is growing :brow:
1. Women are the source of all evil”. In the light of this statement Sleepy hollow??
2. Vanity as in icabond, bones, and Katrina?
3. Is Icabopnd crane likable?
4. Sarcasm and satire?
5. Bones?
6. Adaptations---please limit the Johnny Deppying ;)
7. Katrina Van Tassel?
8. High German doctor reference To Mesmer?
9. Is it just about the power of superstion?
10. Seven deadly sins and Icabond.
11. whats it really about?
12. spooky ?
13. generally women in the story.
14. fav part?
15. Has it ever happened to you?

[bugmasta]

nightshade, you really got into this one. I'm glad you brought this story up because I never read Irvings original version. I only knew of the adaptations. For your information, the story is listed under Irving on this site. There is also some other interesting bits included. I'm not even going to try to answer the questions you raised but I did enjoy the read. I am going to add this to my holloween tradition for years to come.

[Erna]

I read the story, but wasn't really enthousiastic. Maybe it was the language, sometimes I didn't get it. And in my point of view, it wasn't very suprising, from the beginning I had the idea something would happen to Icabond.

Maybe it's just me, I think I prefer novels above short stories, mostly I miss the deeper meaning...

[Nightshade]

so does anyone else think maybe vanity was Icabonds downfall??

[PeterL]

so does anyone else think maybe vanity was Icabonds downfall??

Ichabod didn't really have a downfall, except from the horse. Ichabod won. He got away for there and didn't get stuck with Katrina. This story is an example of winning by appearing to lose.

[Nightshade]

maybe, but it depends on whose version you take doesnt it?
the wives or the farmer??
:D

[PeterL]

"The old country wives, however, who are the best judges of these matters, maintain to this day that Ichabod was spirited away by supernatural means; and it is a favorite story often told about the neighborhood round the winter evening fire."

This sets this ending as a typical "old wives tale"; that is, it is not to be believed except as entertainment. Consider the alternative:

" It is true, an old farmer, who had been down to New York on a visit several years after, and from whom this account of the ghostly adventure was received, brought home the intelligence that Ichabod Crane was still alive; that he had left the neighborhood, partly through fear of the goblin and Hans Van Ripper, and partly in mortification at having been suddenly dismissed by the heiress; that he had changed his quarters to a distant part of the country; had kept school and studied law at the same time, had been admitted to the bar, turned politician, electioneered, written for the newspapers, and finally had been made a justice of the Ten Pound Court."

This version contains an assertion that someone had spoken with Mr Crane, whence the information "that he had left the neighborhood, partly through fear of the goblin and Hans Van Ripper, and partly in mortification at having been suddenly dismissed by the heiress", and there appear to have been other reports that contain some of the other information.

The wives claim requires that extra-ordinary events, creatures, etc. happened without them producing any evidence, while the farmer's story contains information that was obtained from the party involved.
If your next door neighbor disappeared one day, and three years later two people claimed that they knew what happened to him. One said that he had been kidnapped by aliens and was now on one of the moons of Jupiter, while the other said that he had run into him in a city a thousand miles away where he had fled from an unhappy marriage. Which one would you believe?

[onipar]

Nightshade,

I certainly believe Icabod was vain, not to mention a glutton. Icabod is a classic example of a mock hero. I mean, just look at the passage as he is getting ready to go to the feast. Yes, some readers like him because of the humor involved in these situations, but Irving certainly does not like icabod. Icabod is an unwelcome guest in Sleepy Hollow. I recently wrote a literary analysis on this very subject, but I hesitate to post it on a public forum.

-oni

[rachel]

i'd definitely believe about the aliens.
this ichabod reminds me of so many guys i have met, and girls if it comes to that. they are totally self absorbed and relate every single thing to themselves and whether that thing or person or place will stoke their ego, furnish them with 'happiness' and prosperity.
i feel sick in my stomach at the cold blooded way old icky took a look at the kind and hard working mr. van Tassel who the book says had no prideful attitude about his prosperity. to ichabod he was simply a means to an end as were every one from the humblest school child who had a pretty sister to katrina, plump and pretty katrina. I realize she was a coquette, a flirt, but the schoolmaster was older and considering he was bad ugly had to play a pretty mean game to try to win her.
he had to run because A- he woke up with a bump on the head and saw the pumpkin and realized Brom had had sport with him and shamed him.
B-Katrina also had beat him at his own game all the while knowing it was Brom she would walk down the aisle with.
So he picked up and fled and used a whole new group of people for his own means far far away.
i detest him.

[Pendragon]

Didn't get to join in, because 1.) I have no chat line up and 2.) I was and am very sick at the moment but the book remains one of my favorites. Shoot me if you wish, Night. Right now I'm not certain I'd mind too much...... :sick: http://www.websmileys.com/sm/sad/1346.gif

[PeterL]

i'd definitely believe about the aliens.
he had to run because A- he woke up with a bump on the head and saw the pumpkin and realized Brom had had sport with him and shamed him.
B-Katrina also had beat him at his own game all the while knowing it was Brom she would walk down the aisle with.
So he picked up and fled and used a whole new group of people for his own means far far away.
i detest him.

I don't especially like any of the characters. Sure Ichabod was out for number one, so was Katrina, and so was Brom. The most likeable character might have been Mr Van Tassel.
When he woke up with the pumpkin beside him, he probably realized that he didn't have anything to gain by staying. There are people who would have stayed around and tried a comeback. Ichabod didn't make that mistake.

[Darlin]

Well, it's All Hallow's Eve tonight as I'm typing this and I'm a little (a lot?) late but here's my two cents. :)

I've never seen the cartoon or movie so I can't compare it. I read through this fairly quickly at work and actually thought it was a little boring. I thought all the signs of what was going to happen were laid out so thick that one couldn't help but see what lied ahead.

I did think the statement about women being worse than monsters more or less was accurate - for a man that is and especially at the time it was written though women may not realize it they (we) spin them around till they don't know if they're coming or going.

So I liked that admission but I didn't really care for Ichabod because he was really full of himself but I did admire how he could blend in with everyone and even got around Brom Bones.

I liked Brom Bones probably best because he wasn't mean spirited or really sneaky until the end and that was rather well deserved I thought and funny.

Didn't have an opinion of Katrina. It's hard to tell where she was coming from.

I just thought all the build up to superstition was too much so maybe that turned me off. I felt like it was forced down my throat. If it had been less I might have enjoyed the story better. But the story feels like it's just poking fun more than anything. Guess everyone won in the end though.

Finally, NIght thanks for taking so much time setting this up. I forgot about the chat but probably couldn't have participated anyway. Anyway it was an interesting read and I'm glad I read it.

[Kaltrina]

well firstly I am sorry I didn't join the chat, I wanted to but I coulnd't, I was very busy and didn't have time at all. but I did read the story and I prefer the movie better. as Erna said I wasn't so enthusiatic while reading it, I don't know why but I just didn't like the story so much. I also expected that something happens to Ichabod... I didn't like that the whole time it is as if trying to be spooky but in the end you're dssapointed because it doesn't seem spooky at all. I do agree with some guys that said that Ichabod is yuk. he is... he is described as a caricature but still he is full of himself and he feels as if he is the most handsome guy there. I don't like his attitude at all. and I do think it's a satire... the story had so many unknown words for me and I felt lost in some parts but that much that I understood made me think all this. but then again it was a good read, I'm happy I read it... :)

[Psycheinaboat]

The story was definitely satirical and not to be taken too seriously. I enjoyed the voice of the piece, the narrator used the voice of a storyteller and the descriptions were often in-depth, but not boring. Overall I liked it.

One thing that stuck out and distracted me in my reading was the racism. I am not promoting censorship; in fact, I think this is a part of our history that it would a travesty to forget. Still the racism rubbed me because it was not done in the style of other authors, like Twain, who use racist characters or social situations to show the flaws in this prejudice. Instead the author used racist terms to describe African-American characters as matter of fact.

The racism was timely for the piece, but I still didn't like it and found it distracting.

[rachel]

you are absolutely right about the racism. it made me angry and i couldn't help thinking how wierd that anyone with a soul wouldn't think even THINKING like that was sickening and disgusting.
I love your little avatar. It reminds me of one in black and white on ART Passions in the Peter Pan section. I fell in love with it as soon as I saw it.

[Darlin]

As a person of color I must add my two cents once again. I actually stopped reading the story when I came to the description of the Negro deliverer. It definitely gave me pause however I took a few minutes to think it over and then decided to finish it. I finished it because I found the descriptions were not particularly prejudiced or mean spirited but simply how he saw Negroes to be at that time. Callous, too casual? It simply was the way the world was then. In fact, after I finished the story I had completely forgotten about it – didn’t even think about it until it was mentioned.

Funny it actually reminded me of Sir Walter Scott whom I enjoy for the most part but he has a most unflattering way of describing Negroes more so than in this story. So coming from one whom it could have offended it didn't once I thought about it. Things like that happen all the time I've discovered even in a song like Lumberjack Rabbit better known as Jimmy Crack Corn and in a book like Little House on the Prairie which also gave me pause when I was reading it to my children when they were younger.

Basically it’s the way the world was and one can fume over it but there’s no point as there’s nothing we can do about it now. The story was okay, odd that it was supposed to be scary but then again perhaps it was scary for that day and age. Time changes many things. And now I’m stepping off my soap box. :)

[PeterL]

The story was okay, odd that it was supposed to be scary but then again perhaps it was scary for that day and age. Time changes many things.

Scary, no. It was written as a humorous story. If you read any more of Washington Irving, it will become clear that he wrote funny stories with a sarcastic twist to them.

[Darlin]

Aw, thanks for clearing that up. I truly wondered at that.

[rachel]

Darlin, what a fine mind and a big heart as well as a great spirit you have. people like you make the world a much more bearable place.

[Nightshade]

icabond crane what you think?

I didn't like him
I liked him in the movie, the real people one, but the book: nope!

umm i think this more or less covered most of our opinions earlier
umm what did you think of icabond most people didnt like hinm i thought he was yuck

I didn't like him was what I was saying above
I found him... annoying
And I kept wanting to rewrite his character

i think the whole thing is very funny

maybe
wait i already agreed it was funny yes its funny

It is sort of a stupid story, in a sense. I mean, it did get made into a children's movie

and pg 12A one too

Depends on which version

humm

The cartoon I watched as a child was right from the story
Yep

why is it a halloween story?
i dont get it

Because it doesn't fit in with any other season?
I am not sure what Halloween was when it was written
It just seems to fit with the Halloween. I am surprised I haven't seen a version of it on tv

Spooky story + Halloween = Spooky Halloween Story

but its not spookey!

I think it is for its time

Maybe not anymore, but in his time there weren't nine million scary movies.

but its sarcastic

I think it is supposed to be unbelievable

poking fun at the people wh belive the stories whats schers word oh yes tounge in the cheek

Well, the two stories I know by him well are both unbelievable ones, humorous fiction in a sense

yes he wrote the one about the guy who went to sleep for 100 years, didnt he?

Rip Van Winkle


Has this ever happened to you?
that was a question you could use

ok 15 has this ever happened to you?

Has what ever happened to you? Getting chased by a headless horseman?

yes

Well, that question won't take much debate

yes it happened or yes thats the q?

OK so noone got chased iv crossed that off the list and icabond crane ok what did everyone think of katrina?

not much

I really like the descriptions in the story

I like them too

so did i actually

they are all very clever and funny

my fav part is the beginging the decripition of sleepy hollow

yes and pumpkins appear signs of halloween

i had a lot of fun reading it

where was that --man i read the story twice and i still miss things *sigh*

I liked the descr. of Ikybods horse.

i like the farmer he nicked the saddle off

I can't remember descriptions, I didn't reread the story so it has been a while

I can't remember descriptions, I didn't reread the story so it has been a while


Dutch country tea-table, in the sumptuous time of autumn. Such heaped up platters of cakes of various and almost indescribable kinds, known only to experienced Dutch housewives! There was the doughty doughnut, the tender olykoek, and the crisp and crumbling cruller; sweet cakes and short cakes, ginger cakes and honey cakes, and the whole family of cakes. And then there were apple pies, and

I guess I just like the story in general

He is a very descriptive author, Rip van Winkle is the same way

is that good somtimes it can get boring?

I don't mind in short stories, I find it worse in novels
this one doesn't feel boring

no not really
so now can we talk about katrina??

sure

You know what, she isn't very memorable

not mentioned all that much

yes but coquette / women are evil

laughs

shes the waht catayst that th whole story is about if you look at it one way
and not important in another
depends if you belive the farmer or the wives

I hardly remember her was my point

men treat her materialistically so she makes the most of it
none of the men is interested in her
but her wealth
and the fact that she will inherit the farm

are they? I thoought bones was after her

i dont think so

it is emphasised that she is the heiress

Yeah, she inherits

she was also described as a plump peach on her father's tree

the descriptions are brilliant

yes but peach= beauty in some stories of the time ( The shuttle/t.tembaron etc)
so it could be that she is the link to his wealth that can be taken away?

or just another thing grown on that farm

I think it is a material reference to her though

and planted to give somenelse wealth?

dowry


ohwell ok whats the story about??

I think the end of the story was more about how ones imagination can get the best of them

yess so is the story about superstion power of imagination?
oh look at allt hese feeble minded folk what ever will they belive next?

I like how the story of Ickybod is told about the neighborhood

huh?
so hes waht held out as an example?
or as a great horror story?

He becomes a legend
but the funny thing is
hey will describe him as a dandy
city folk /country folk

yes which is why theyd rather he was taken to the depest pitts of hell than have run away and become famous
i mean successful
so is it ( the story about that i0 anybody no matter how ill fitting can become a hero

perhaps I don't think the stories told will portray him as heroic

what do you think then

I think that he becomes a sort of mockery, a tale of man that avoided confrontation, but lost when confronted.
To become another story to scare those willing to listen

ohh ypu know the referance to the high gferman doctotr do you recon its a refernce to mesmer ( as in the animal mesmerrisim/hypnosis dude??)

maybe

[Nightshade]

Again sorry it took so long!
:blush: