The church is needed ?

[rlckdur]

My question is simple.
The organization of church is indispensable?
I know Jusus said church is in the only three who speak Gospel no matter where or when.
Furthermore, I cannot help but dissapointed about some corruption in the church, especially, when the things criticized by Blake or Milton are not the past, but 'ing' until now in some aspects.
Im Christian, not going to the church.(as a organization)
What do you think about this?

[Satine]

Personally, and this is only my OPINION...I don't think it's necessary to go to church. At least not to get into heaven. All you need for that is the belief that Jesus Christ is your savior. I DO think, however, that going to church can be very helpful in your spiritual walk. Now the church in itself is run by humans, and all humans are sinful in nature, and so the church itself is also smothered with sin. Does that mean we should write it off because it is corrupt? I don't believe so. We do the best we can with what we have. I find that spending time with other believers and reflecting on the Word allows me to connect on a level that I cannot reach all by myself. My mom always told me that to her, church is "rehab for sinners"...LOL. And since we're all sinners, then we should probably find someplace to go and get help! I agree with you, it's easy to get frustrated with the corruption of the church, ALL churches are flawed to some degree, some more than others. In the end, I think that it's something that keeps me grounded, and has allowed me to become close with other believers, and to me, that's good enough. Is it necessary? No. Is it valuable? For me, yes, very much so.

[Ancestor]

Try to remember the church itself is not corrupted but the people whom run it. I feel those whom are happy with their faith should not give up on going to church they may have a positive influence on others.

[Scheherazade]

What is the Church without the people who run it?

[querida]

Humans will be humans; no matter how close they are to God, they still mess up. I think the biggest testomony against us Christians is our disunity in the church.
What church used to be, and still is in some places, was a group of Christians meeting together (usually in homes) to fellowship together and be built up by others that shared the same belief. "Where 2 or more are gathered, I am with them"... that's church.
So if the church you're going to is making you a worse person, than find a different place where you can meet with other Christians that can encourage you. It's easy to feel alone and the only Christian around. Church should be a place where you can feel like you're part of the same family working towards the same goal. There are many good real (not perfect) churches. If you really can't find one where you feel at home, maybe you should start your own house-church or "small group" or "bible study"... that's what church is. It's about relationships. Don't give up on it.

[Pendragon]

A Church is just an ediface with a name over the door, having been set aside for worship. But the TRUE CHURCH is the people, those called by His Name, who gather together for worship. And thus a church can be a clearing in a forest, or a beautiful cathedral, or neither if they are not used to worship in and fellowship with others of kind like faith. Thus a church can be in your heart if that is where you go to worship and fellowship with God...You light a candle and others will come to see what the light is all about. :angel:

[YellowCrayola]

My opinion: I go to church because there's a beauty in going, a beauty that is unlike any other. Going to church brings me closer to God for it is his house, after all.

Still, despite all the accusations against the church, I still and will always hold tight to my beliefs. We're all humans, and a part of being human is having flaws, and the church (or the people who run it) are no exception. Perhaps the church scandals are just tests to distinguish those who are truly faithful and those who are not. http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/indifferent/indifferent0013.gif Once again, my opinion.

[Ancestor]

What is the Church without the people who run it?
What is a Church with corrupted people running it? For anywhere you worship with pure of heart is a Church. I for one do not need a building to feel the Great Spirit's words. All I was trying to say was I do not have a problem with the Church but those whom abuse the faith of that Church. I hope that I did not offend anyone. :)

[Stanislaw]

Well, the church is not a bad thing. People collectively can be good, but singularily find it difficult, the church also provides a building in which people of the same beliefs can meet and pray together in private without, interfering with other religious groups or offending other people. The church is inofensive, a place of common worship, fellowship and gathering, aswell as an institution that can provide financial aid to those in need.

New Question: What is wrong with having a church?

[Pendragon]

New Question: What is wrong with having a church?New Answer: Does this question really require an answer? If it does, then may God help this world! There can be no harm in having a church. My friend and I, both ordained ministers, once felt lead to start a church in a store front building in a nearby town. He was Pastor, I was his assistant and service director, since I play various types of music. We had the best six years I have ever had in my life. We reached out to whomsoever. The church was strickly non-denominational, anyone welcome. My current illness crisis lead to my being unable to continue, and my friend couldn't keep the church going on his own. He has passed on to his reward now, and I miss him, but if I could, I'd open a church again. As it is, service is at 6:00 every Sunday evening in my home, still for whosoever. I've seen the house packed, I've had lean times, but I shall go on! It's for the people, that's what counts. :angel:

[subterranean]

I remember one song about church, which I think quite wonderful:

I am the church, You are the church
We are all the church
And all the followers of Jesus around the world
We are all the church

Church is not the building
Nor its tower
Open the door, look inside
The true Church is the person

Well, more or less sounds like that as it's in my local language. So basically, the church (as an organization), is the institution so that Christians will be more organized. Church also can be source for information. In my place, church staffs will announce the names who are sick, just got babies, who died, who moved, or new members in the congregation. It also have social function, where some of the money collected from its members, will be donated to the needy. It's also, of course, a source of learning; though it's not the main source, cause the person him/herself who must really learn. Further, I think the Bible also mentions about Christian unity, that it's good for fellow Christians to meet together and praise God (there's a song about this too), to streghten and help each other.

And for corrupted church authorities, well... there are also corrupted mosque leaders, corrupted Buddhist monks, corrupted vihara authorities, corrupted gurus, shifus, etc. As organization established and founded by men, religious institutions tend to have such cases.

Old saying said, you don't burn the barn to catch the mouse. So, IMO, the same thing goes with church and other religious institution.

[Rosalind]

And for corrupted church authorities, well... there are also corrupted mosque leaders, corrupted Buddhist monks, corrupted vihara authorities, corrupted gurus, shifus, etc. As organization established and founded by men, religious institutions tend to have such cases.


I agree, all institutions, political, educational, and especially religious always have some examples of corruption. When you think about it, one of the most amazing things about the church is that it has survived so long, through so many periods of such extreme corruption, and still remains intact and mostly un-corrupted.

What is wrong with having a church?

As far as I can see, there's something wrong with having a church only if it's actually interfering with your personal faith. For example, many people are dragged into their church by their parents, and it's such a mandatory, pedantic thing that it becomes more of a barrier to faith than a conductor. A lot of these people end up leaving their church, then returning later in life to religion, maybe a different faith, or a different denomination, or the same one. Or, if you just feel plain constricted by the rules or ceremonies of a church, then I think you're doing yourself much more of a favor by leaving then gritting your teeth and getting bitter. Find a nice park to worship in--or a community like Pendragon's (you're story was inspiring, by the way).

If anyone's interested, Avery Dulles, a Jesuit, wrote some interesting things on the nature of the Church, using a series of images. First, of course, came the people as church, but he also discussed a variety of roles and metaphors.

[Ancestor]

There is nothing wrong with a church when people enjoy going and hearing their minister, pastor, or priest preach to them. If you can walk out of church lifted and happy then that is a wonderful experience. I have not had that experience personally the church I have gone to are cold ones due to the people in charge. I practice my faith my way and do not expect anyone else to practice as I do. I apparently caused some upset and I do apologize for that. I just wanted to point out human beings can tainted the faith of others but those who do not are truely represent what a Church should be. :)

[rlckdur]

Of course there is no wrong with having a church.
but so many people tend to think they 'have to' go to the church to become a Christian, though 'I think' going to the institutional church regularly has never relationship with the true faith and salvation.
and, some people misunderstand their emotional joy or evasive, sensational excitment experianced in the (some, not every)church is a true, holy experiance as a Christian, forgetting everything duering six dayes.
I'm sick whenever people ask to me "Are you go to the church?" when they want to know my religion. Why they do not ask to me "Are you a Christian?"

[Pendragon]

Find a nice park to worship in--or a community like Pendragon's (you're story was inspiring, by the way).

Thank you, Rosalind. I am glad to still be able to inspire someone. Then I know I am doing my job. It's been a hard road I've had to walk, but I will not complain, He walked a harder one for all of us of His own free will. That's our saving grace. :angel:


I'm sick whenever people ask to me "Are you go to the church?" when they want to know my religion. Why they do not ask to me "Are you a Christian?"

I totally agree with what you are saying. I'll ask people, "Are you a Christian?" and they tell me where they go to church. That didn't answer the question. I know many hypocrites that are there every Sunday, hoping no one will notice how they live the rest of the week. I don't need to know where you go to church, I just want to know if you know Jesus as your personal savior.

Don Francisco once wrote:

I don't care how many buses you own or the size of your Sanctuary
Doesn't matter how steep your steeple is if it's setting on a cemetary
I don't care if you pave your parking lot, or put pads upon your pews
The thing I need to ask you, is have you done what He told you to do?

Sounds a tad harsh, I agree, but he's pointing out that the importain thing about a church is to have an atmosphere where people can come to worship and fellowship, not feel bound or dead. :angel:

[subterranean]

You want to hear something wackier?

In my place, people often asked , "Do you celebrate Christmas or Ied?"


I'm sick whenever people ask to me "Are you go to the church?" when they want to know my religion. Why they do not ask to me "Are you a Christian?"

[mono]

To put it simply, holding a somewhat "self-reliant" perspective, one ought to attend church and/or other religious ceremonies if he/she thinks it necessary, but not entirely out of unpleasant obligation; on the contrary, if he/she does not think religious ceremonies and gatherings necessary or beneficial to him/her or anyone else, then one ought not to attend.
Enforcing such strict rules of attending (whether from oneself or others), I think, seems like forcing calculus on someone more interested in liberal arts - beneficial, perhaps, to a limit, but not a great interest.

[subterranean]

There is one Bbile and yet so many different intepretations. I don't really know whether it's cleary stated in Bible about Christians meeting/gatherings. But if we look at the example from the early disciples, it is clearly mentioned that they often met in regular meetings to pray and to praise God. And I see that as a manifestation of the early Christian gathering (church as you may call it now). But that's just my thought.


To put it simply, holding a somewhat "self-reliant" perspective, one ought to attend church and/or other religious ceremonies if he/she thinks it necessary, but not entirely out of unpleasant obligation; on the contrary, if he/she does not think religious ceremonies and gatherings necessary or beneficial to him/her or anyone else, then one ought not to attend.
Enforcing such strict rules of attending (whether from oneself or others), I think, seems like forcing calculus on someone more interested in liberal arts - beneficial, perhaps, to a limit, but not a great interest.

[Rosalind]

But if we look at the example from the early disciples, it is clearly mentioned that they often met in regular meetings to pray and to praise God. And I see that as a manifestation of the early Christian gathering (church as you may call it now). But that's just my thought.

On the other hand, the earliest meetings of the disciples didn't have a whole lot in common with formal Church services today. People prayed together, discussed Jesus' teachings, and Eucharist was performed by the host of that particular meeting. There were no priests or strict ceremonies. Not that I'm arguing against church meetings as they are held today; I'm just commenting on how things evolved and how, as you say, there are many interpretations of scripture.

[Scheherazade]

On the other hand, the earliest meetings of the disciples didn't have a whole lot in common with formal Church services today. People prayed together, discussed Jesus' teachings, and Eucharist was performed by the host of that particular meeting. There were no priests or strict ceremonies. Not that I'm arguing against church meetings as they are held today; I'm just commenting on how things evolved and how, as you say, there are many interpretations of scripture.I agree with you Rosalind. The Church and its practices are results of people's interpretations and creations in some cases. I don't think there are references in the Bible that priests, nuns, Pope etc... which is why I asked in the begining 'what is Church without its people?' However, it is interesting that people have given so much power to the Church that now they are under the control of something they themselves created.

[subterranean]

The point that I was tyring to convey was that I think the early disciples set an example of Christians gatherings, which have main intention to worship God, and that early gatherings evolved for many years and become what we know today as church. Of course it was not as systematic as today's Church, where the later is much more organized due to the size of members or variation of activities. Further, influenced by social changes, church now also play other roles other than religious, i.e. social and political roles. However, I think the purpose of today's church is still (and should be) the same as the early gatherings, which is a place where Christians gather and worship God.


On the other hand, the earliest meetings of the disciples didn't have a whole lot in common with formal Church services today. People prayed together, discussed Jesus' teachings, and Eucharist was performed by the host of that particular meeting. There were no priests or strict ceremonies. Not that I'm arguing against church meetings as they are held today; I'm just commenting on how things evolved and how, as you say, there are many interpretations of scripture.

[Mililalil XXIV]

Personally, and this is only my OPINION...I don't think it's necessary to go to church. At least not to get into heaven. All you need for that is the belief that Jesus Christ is your savior. I DO think, however, that going to church can be very helpful in your spiritual walk. Now the church in itself is run by humans, and all humans are sinful in nature, and so the church itself is also smothered with sin. Does that mean we should write it off because it is corrupt? I don't believe so. We do the best we can with what we have. I find that spending time with other believers and reflecting on the Word allows me to connect on a level that I cannot reach all by myself. My mom always told me that to her, church is "rehab for sinners"...LOL. And since we're all sinners, then we should probably find someplace to go and get help! I agree with you, it's easy to get frustrated with the corruption of the church, ALL churches are flawed to some degree, some more than others. In the end, I think that it's something that keeps me grounded, and has allowed me to become close with other believers, and to me, that's good enough. Is it necessary? No. Is it valuable? For me, yes, very much so.
To me, that is a defeatest attitude. If one cannot get along with family at home, then why go on vacation with them? In the same way, if we don't know Unity here, do we look forward to perfect Unity in Heaven?