Avant garde films/film-makers

[lavendar1]

Yikes! I'm suddenly not sure if this post belongs in the 'general literature' part of the forum. Anyway, I'm supposed to be viewing some avant garde films for a class I'm taking. After doing some research on just what constitutes 'avant garde' film (I'm familiar with the Coen brothers' films and the Rocky Horror Picture Show), I'm wondering if anyone could recommend some films that I could watch that are considered experimental but not so far out there that someone who's not all that sophisticated about film could understand and appreciate.

Thanks for your help.

[Scheherazade]

Hi Lavendar,

Maybe you can find some more titles on www.imdb.com.

I will move this thread to the General Chat section.

[Logos]

I guess it depends on who's definition of "avant-garde", it's kind of subjective but if you can get your hands on any Andy Warhol films, now he was avant-garde, did all kinds of crazy stuff never done before.. :lol:

and yes Rocky Horror is considered avant-garde

some other

Baraka no dialogue, beautiful movie

Eraserhead very weird and funny!

Pink Flamingos pretty gross but hilarious

Pink Floyd The Wall

[subterranean]

Beside that, the Rocky Horror is also considered as "cult movie" :)


"Damn'it Janet"

[PistisSophia]

I love Fassbinder (rip), Herzog movies, stuff by Polanski...I've tried to compile a list of some of my more "avant garde" movies, before I totally forget, and so far, have come up with a few gems....

El Topo
Death in Venice
A Woman's Decision
Aguirre, The Wrath of God
Fitzcarraldo
Chloe in Love
Claire's Knee
The Lacemaker
Picnic at Hanging Rock
Four Hundred Blows
Seven Beauties
The Go Between
Solaris
the Original Lena Wertmueller - Swept Away with Giancarlo Giannini
Betrayal
Au Revior les enfants by Louis Malle (rip)
Lilli Marleen
Something Wild 1961 with Carroll Baker & Ralph Meeker
Stalingrad
The Discreet Charm of the (Bough-wah-see)
The Return of Martin Guerre
My Dinner With Andre'
Mr. Klein
The Marriage of Maria Braun
Metropolis
Eraserhead
Reefer Madness
RHPS..no like much, not a big Waters fan.


My favorite actor is the late Klaus Kinski....his autobiography, Kinski Uncut" was ummm, amazing as was the movie done by Herzog about Kinski called "My Best Fiend".....a real live love hate relationship between two men.


I am sure this list could go on and on.....but thankfully, for all, I shall stop here.

[lavendar1]

Thanks, all. Logos, I heard about Baraka. I'm really interested in viewing it. And PritisSophia, you must be a real devotee of avant garde. I hope I can locate some of your recommendations. Since the film-viewing is intended to enhance my creative writing, I didn't get much guidance on how to 'study' film. So I bought a 'Teach Yourself Film Studies' book to help. So many movies, so little time!

[PistisSophia]

Thanks, all. Logos, I heard about Baraka. I'm really interested in viewing it. And PritisSophia, you must be a real devotee of avant garde. I hope I can locate some of your recommendations. Since the film-viewing is intended to enhance my creative writing, I didn't get much guidance on how to 'study' film. So I bought a 'Teach Yourself Film Studies' book to help. So many movies, so little time!

Yes, I love cinema verte or whatever......but it took quite a few years to see this many films.

Now, I am very picky about what I will watch.

[Logos]

Gotta admit I'm a film snob, basically only watching foreign/indie stuff.

Jean Cocteau did some interesting avant-garde stuff..

Le Sang d'un poète (Blood of a Poet) (http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/directors/04/cocteau.html) if you can get with english sub-titles and

L'Âge d'or by Luis Bunuel and Salvador Dali (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0021577/) is great too :D

[Logos]

That's a great list Sophia, it's got some movies I've had on my `to watch' list for ages!

[Mark F.]

Hmm, you want to check out art films that experiment new techniques. One thing to always remember when dealing with "avant garde" is that it's only avant garddist the first time, so for example, out of S. M. Eisenstein's many films in which he explores the different uses of editing you should stick mainly to his first major film "Battleship Potemkin".
One of the most famous avant gardist director is an other Russian named Dziga Vertov and I recommend you check out "The Man with the Camera", his most important film.
"The Cabinet of Doctor Caligari" directed by Robert Wiene is considered as the first expresionnist film. "Metropolis", the last. (Das Kabinett des Doktor Caligari)
"The Wheel" by Abel Gance. (La Roue)
"An Andalusian Dog" by Dali and Bunuel. (Un Chien Andalou)
You might also want to think of how the first nrrative films (by the "Brighton School" and Georges Méliès) could be considered as avant garde.

[Scatterbrain]

*takes notes*

This is really interesting! Go on! :D

[Mark F.]

By the way, I'm not sure I understood what you meant by being "familiar with the Coen bros.". If you think they're avant-garde youwould be making a mistake. Not all art films are avant-garde films.
I just thought of a couple more; Kubrick's "2001 : A Space Odessy" could be considered as avant-garde for two reasons; the very daring theme (IMO the theme of this movie is simply everything) and the representation of space travel.
Jarmusch's "Stranger than Paradise" has no real narrative structure, no beginning nor end, the characters don't seem to have any goal or direction they're going in. Jarmusch does this again in later films but this is the first one I can think of.
Kubrick's "Barry Lyndon" and Kurosawa's "Ran" share the same aesthetics which try to imitate paintings.

[Aurora Ariel]

While I've heard of some of these, there are still a few I previously didn't know.Thanks for adding those!What are you thoughts on Visconti's Death in Venice?I first saw the film about three years ago and now hear they are staging a version of it at the theatre as an opera.Has anyone else seen this or heard of it?I actually saw a scene on the news which shows the academic falling into temptation and been lead to the Angel of Death(his teenage boy muse Sebastian).I was entranced by this film when I first watched it and especially like the way they used the camera from the unique angels;to slowly shoot in and create this intensity and doomed atmosphere.It is beautiful cinematography and rather poetic.And I really like the scene, at the time, in which Beethoven's Fur Elise is played( earlier on) as this is one of my all time favourite pieces to play on the piano myself, and it's the only art house film(actually only film!)I've seen having it like this.Has anyone seen the film Gloomy Sunday?This was another great film which I watched around the same time, and the song Gloomy Sunday was also known as the song of death as many people committed suicide to this song years ago!Metropolis is another one I've known of and seen documentaries about, but thanks for adding the others.I'm going to check these out!Bye...

[Mark F.]

Deffinately check out Metropolis, one of the best sci fi films ever. I'm going to buy an earlier Fritz Lang film this week called Dr Mabuse the Gambler, a 3 and 1/2 hour german expressionnist silent movie. I'll let you know what I think about it after seeing it.

[crisaor]

Mulholland Drive is as AG as you can get.
Good luck understanding it though...

[lavendar1]

Quoted from MarkF: By the way, I'm not sure I understood what you meant by being "familiar with the Coen bros.". If you think they're avant-garde youwould be making a mistake. Not all art films are avant-garde films.

You're educating me. I really didn't know much about avant-garde films, and which are considered good even after doing some research, so that's why I sought help from my forum friends. Frankly, in my ignorance, I thought avant-garde was often synonymous with wierd. This weekend I hope to track one of the films down and view it. Maybe we can get some more discussion going here. ;)

Thanks again to you all for the information.

[Mark F.]

In a sense it is weird because what we define as weird is what doesn't go by the norm. I'd define avant-garde as anything that experiences something new.

Dictionary.com gives this definintion :
A group active in the invention and application of new techniques in a given field, especially in the arts.

The key idea is novelty, not just breaking the rules, but breaking them for the first time.

[PistisSophia]

I have a problem with Bunuel's work......Le Chein Andalusia.....

I have a problem watching Japan/China movies....so much violence and waste of life...

[Mark F.]

If you find Japanese movies too violent you should give films such as :
An Autumn Afternoon (Sanma no aji) by Jasujiro Ozu
Dersu Uzala & Dô desu ka den by Akira Kurosawa
Nothing to do with avant-garde, just beautiful Japanese films.