September '05 Book: Northanger Abbey

[Scheherazade]

Please post your thoughts and questions regarding Northanger Abbey here.

Online Copy (http://www.online-literature.com/austen/northanger/)


Book Club Procedures (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?p=57103#post57103)

[Rosevn]

thanks for your online copy, Scheherazade. First I intended to read Emma but I'd like to follow and take part in your discussion. Im gonna to read it although it may take me a long while to finish and I can't grasp the meaning in details :)

[Nightshade]

This was the only Austen novel (other than the friendship one that I havent read) that I only read once because I didnt like it but Ive pulled out my copy and will hopefully read in next weekend.

[Sarah's_Chanson]

I'm so glad it's this one as I own it and I have already read it once! I'll dust it off my shelf, where it is hidden behind Hardy and Dickens, and read it again to refresh my memory!

[samercury]

I just started reading the online version of it on this website... It's okay so far (quite good actually) =)

[Scheherazade]

I have finished reading the first volume and... :rolleyes:

How gullible and easily manipulated Catherine is! Seems like she is the only who fails to see through Isabella's and her brother's schemes...

[Lady19thC]

It is frustrating, isn't it? Austen usually makes her characters much stronger, but again, she is playing on the themes used in the gothic novels, so popular in her time period, that maybe the heroine isn't supposed to be strong. Catherine is young, and inexperienced, and though I wanted to scream and tell her to please stand up to people when they push you around, perhaps this allows her to be more of an innocent victim type, and sets her up for more adventure. Maybe? :confused:

[shortysweetp]

i got my copy today for my birthday from my brother-in-law so i will be discussing soon with you all the wonderful work of jane austen.

[Scheherazade]

It is frustrating, isn't it? Austen usually makes her characters much stronger, but again, she is playing on the themes used in the gothic novels, so popular in her time period, that maybe the heroine isn't supposed to be strong. Catherine is young, and inexperienced, and though I wanted to scream and tell her to please stand up to people when they push you around, perhaps this allows her to be more of an innocent victim type, and sets her up for more adventure. Maybe? :confused:I agree with you Lady that usually Austen's leading female characters are much more stronger but NA is different from Austen's other books (from what I can remember from my first read some years ago; I am re-reading it for the BC). In this book Austen seems much more open about her criticism of the society of the time, which makes the book quite humorous and an interesting read. Among all the controlling, manipulative characters, Catherine, with her good nature and naivety, stands out. Maybe Austen is trying to show us that all is not so bad after all...

Having said that, for her sake, I still wish Catherine was not so naive! :p

What do you think about Henry Tilney? Is he the one for her? :D

i got my copy today for my birthday from my brother-in-law so i will be discussing soon with you all the wonderful work of jane austen.Hiya, Sweetp! Looking forward to hear your thoughts on the book! :)

[NNoah3]

I started to read it yesterday, it's okay so far.

[Scheherazade]

After finishing reading, I cannot help thinking that Catherine's innocence and naivety might be part of Austen's sarcastic approach to some fiction of her time; similarly, she mocks some of the Gothic novels when Catherine goes to stay at the Abbey (the account of her first night was very funny! :D).

I wonder why Austen titled this book Northanger Abbey... She usually picks more... introspective titles... I thought she could have titled this one Innocence or something like that! :p

[tames]

I really enjoyed the book. Mind you, I am just starting to read the classics. This book at the beginning reminded me so much of Pride and Prejudice (the A&E movie), I was surprised it wasn't more original (I am not sure which was written first). So what is it with this time period, meaning you don't tell someone how you feel about them until your ready to marry them? I know that Catherine stated that a woman should not love until the man has decided to love her. So come on Henry, the entire book you hardly let on that you were interested. No wonder why poor Catherine had to go to the lengths she did to get his attention.

I really did not like the way the book ended. I was hoping for something much more dramatic. We work our way up to her leaving N.A. and going home. Then in the last three or so pages Henry shows up and amidst a lot of prose they marry. They don't converse or play around like they did through the whole book. I was really hoping for some tear-jerker stuff at the end.

--Tim

[Lady19thC]

I thought it was very fitting that she titled this book "Northanger Abbey"! Think about it. Through the majority of the book she makes fun of the gothic novels that were being read at the time, and yet, in the process she wrote one herself, and a very good one, at that! We still have the heroine, the "Abbey" or castle, the mystery, the stairways that go to nowhere, the romance, etc. I have a feeling she laughed at herself, while naming this book! Only someone with her wit would be able to have fun with something like this!

[tames]

Does anyone know of any of the "gothic" books that are being referred to in these posts from this time period? I know a few books were mentioned by Isabella. Are they all of this genre? One of them "The Mysteries of Udolpho" by Radcliffe I was able to find on gutenberg.net, Not sure if it is "gothic" or not. It may be fun to read some of them.

--Tim

--Edit-- OK, I see that Radcliffe's novels are considered gothic. Any other good authors?

[Jay]

Slightly off topic, to reply tames's question here's a few links:

elements of the gothic novel (http://www.virtualsalt.com/gothic.htm)

Wikipedia about gothic novel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_novel)

an interesting link (http://www.engl.virginia.edu/enec981/Group/title.html)

Tames, I suggest doing a google search (http://images.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=gothic+novel&btnG=Search) if you're interested, there's a lot more out there :)

[Lady19thC]

Here is a fairly good list of the books Austen was referring to. Enjoy!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/VXGBTNVKAB5F/ref=cm_lm_lists/103-7432783-6910245

[Nightshade]

I started and have only read the first chapter Id forgotte how wonderfully sarcatic austen can be.

I read somewhere ages ago somthing about the title of NA and why it is specificlly different from all the others.

[shortysweetp]

well i finished it and of course i would recommend it because of my love of jane austen books but I do have to say that it wasnt one of my favorites of hers. I laughed a lot at her wit and sarcasm. I think the general is a hugh horse's arse for justing wanting her in his family for money and then throwing her out like that. The whole Thorpe family is spoiled brats which what you get when you have an overindulgent mother. As for Henry I believed that he was going to ask her to marry him since their walk at Bath. This novel was a little different writing style than the rest and really showed Austen's sarcasm of innocence, vanity and manners. I am glad I got to read it during my birthmonth thank you all that voted for it.

[Jay]

I'm really getting interested... sarcasm? :D

[Nightshade]

sure chapter one is a fantastic example, also P&P is filled with sarcasm but it s more veiled while here she's very obvious and upfront about it :D

[Scheherazade]

Next weekend, I will be visiting Austen's house, which is a museum: http://www.jane-austens-house-museum.org.uk/

*does a happy dance*

[shortysweetp]

oh i soo envy you. I would love to go see it.
BTW nice quote. :)

[Nightshade]

just got to chapter 11 but will have to stop to go to work :(
Isabella is an extremly annoying person dont you think??
Also you know the 3 novels mentioned at the end of ch5 ( camilla cecila and Belinda???) Tuerns out Ive read Cecilia and Belinda.
:D

[Darlin]

I'm having such a hard time getting past the first few pages. Maybe because I've read it before a long time ago. I don't know but is anyone else struggling with this? It could also be that I'm just not in a reading mood lately. Don't know why either. Odd.

[Nightshade]

Me im struggling to find the enthusiasm to go back and dfinish the book, but not the first chapter that was excellent :D

[Scheherazade]

I have to admit that the first couple of chapters of the book are a little verbose and preachy in tone;however, once Catherine goes to Bath, the story starts to unravel and it becomes quite a good read.

I have found an ariticle on Austen: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4252094.stm

[NNoah3]

I finished reading it yesterday. I like it, at first I didn't like too much and I almost quit reading it but I continue and it was not a waste of time. Our "Heroine" had a lot of imagination. She was so naive believing in someone like Isabella.

[Darlin]

Good to know I'm not the only one that thinks it starts off slow. I've made it to Bath and shall attempt to finish it this weekend.

[Scheherazade]

http://www.lions.org.uk/messageboard/smilies/Mexicanwave.gif Finally my long awaited pilgrimage to the Jane Austen House took place. http://www.lions.org.uk/messageboard/smilies/Mexicanwave.gif

Unfortunately, we were not allowed to take photos but I got some postcards and a small guide, which I will post here.


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/Schrzd/Scan10037.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/Schrzd/guide1.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/Schrzd/guide3.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/Schrzd/guide4.jpg

[Scheherazade]

Front view of the house. The entrance door used to be more to the left:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/Schrzd/house12.jpg



West-view of the house and some part of the garden. The garden itself is very big with many flower/planets as well as vegetables. Apparently, the Austen family one of the first to grow potatoes in Britain, The door in view leads to the drawing room:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/Schrzd/house22.jpg



The piano is not the one which belonged to the Austens but from the same period. Austen spent many hours practising and was an accomplished player. No wonder in her novels she insists that ladies should be able to play the piano to be considered agreeable!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/Schrzd/droom2.jpg



This is one of my favorite rooms in the house. It looked as if it was still lived in, waiting for the family to stroll in to have their dinner.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/Schrzd/diningr12.jpg



This small table and chair in the dining room used to be Austen's favorite spot to write her books. They are next to the window, looking at the street.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/Schrzd/dinningr22.jpg



The fireplace in Austen's bedroom, which she used to share with her sister. The closet hides the bowl and the jug:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/Schrzd/broom2.jpg



This patchwork quilt was made by Austen, her mother and sister while they were living in this house and all the material came from their own clothes:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/Schrzd/quilt2.jpg


-Austen was not only a good writer but also very good at sewing and needle work. There are many lace and embroidery samples around the house made by her.

-There are dresses on display which are worn by Keira Knightley, Matthew MacFadyen and Judi Dench in the latest Pride and Prejudice movie.

-Austen did not let anyone oil the door leading to upstairs and it kept creaking because she wanted to know when someone came upstairs so that she had time to hide her manuscripts.

-Two of her brothers were very successful sailor, one of which became an Admiral.

[Darlin]

Wow! That is so cool you got to go there! And twice as cool to share your lovely pictures with us! Thanks!

[Nightshade]

I havea question did they turn it into a museum right after she died so hisis the original stuff or did other people live in it and it was eventually restored to what they presueme it was like back in her day???

[Scheherazade]

Here is a brief history of the house as it is stated on the website: (http://www.jane-austens-house-museum.org.uk/history.htm)
A brief history of Jane Austen and the Museum

Jane Austen was born on the 16 December 1775 at the rectory in the Hampshire village of Steventon to the Reverend George Austen and his wife, Cassandra. Jane, the seventh of eight children, had six brothers and one elder sister Cassandra. The family moved to Bath on her father's retirement in 1801. In 1809 she moved to this house, now the museum with her widowed mother and sister.

Until she was settled in Chawton none of Jane's work had been published. The period that she lived here was the most prolific and productive of her life. She revised Sense and Sensibility and Pride and Prejudice, which she had written some years earlier, and then wrote Mansfield Park, Emma and Persuasion.

Late in 1816 she became ill and in May 1817 she and Cassandra rented rooms in Winchester to be nearer to her physician. There was no cure for the illness and she died on the 18 July 1817. She is buried in Winchester Cathedral.

The house was lived in by Mrs Austen and Cassandra until Mrs Austen died in 1827. Cassandra remained there alone until she died in 1845 when the house was divided into three cottages for farm workers.

One hundred years later the house was bought by Mr T. Edward Carpenter in memory of his son, Philip, who was killed in the Second World War. He founded the Jane Austen Memorial Trust which owns and administers the house that was first opened as a museum in 1949.

[Nightshade]

Right Ive finally finished it cant say I lved it but I suppose I understand all the melodramatics better having read a few of the gothic novels since I last read the book.

[Scheherazade]

If you would like to take part in Northanger Abbey Live Discussions, please send me your MSN addresses asap, please!


Have you taken the quizes on Austen and Nothanger Abbey on the Forum's quiz section? :D

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/quiz.php?catid=1

[Darlin]

Took the quiz, first two questions threw me but didn't do badly after that. I finally finished the book a bit late but thought it was quite witty, made me laugh out loud quite a few times. After a slow start I really enjoyed it. Thought I'd read it before but after reading it realized it's the one Austen book I hadn't read. Well, on to the next book!

[Scheherazade]

which other austen books have you read?

all of them

I've seen Sense & Sensibility

I havent read persuasion

i have read the others

considering that this is the first book JA wrote, what did you think about it?

i am not sure if i have. i have seen emma, pride and prejudice (earlier version and the modernized one) and I am currently rereading persuasion

we're not supposed to compare NA to the others, right?

i have watched Emma and P&P

well, yes

did you think it is different from the other JA books?

I've only read NA...

it is more naive like a younger girl wrote it i think

I thought JA was too direct in her criticism and observations

was not refined enough if you like

yeah in her other books it is more subtle

too sharp

yes, exactly

especially in the first couple chapters, she is really up in arms regarding novels and society

maybe she wasnt mature enough when she wrote NA to be subtle about it

probably

and interestingly it wasnt the first JA book to be published

compared to other JA books, how did you like the NA?

but i do find that i like her work more b/c of her sarcasism towards society at that time.

yes, it is very refreshing to read, isnt it?

it was probably my least favorite but i like it nevertheless

considering she wrote her books in an age women accepted the social norms easily

yes very refreshing

I think I like it better than S & S

i think she is a brillant lady that would easily fit into today's society. which is probably why her books are made into movies

I agree with you

the thing is if she lived today, she would still be ahead of her time I guess

she simply had a questioning mind

i agree i find her to be highly above many young women authors today

yes

and what i like even more that she doesnt seem to be taking herself too seriously either

i dont think women today are willing to put themselves out there like she did, which was really risky in her time

i mean there are a few women who do but not to the level she did since it was so unthought of then.

do you think she published her books under "a lady" for a reason ?

a lady?

isnt that right?

she didnt use her name when she published her books when she was alive. it wasnt until she died that her identity came out

I don't know

Dont remember reading about that

and her brother had NA and persuasion published under her name and

yes, I think her brother was instrumental getting all her books published

what do you think about Catherine as a heroine?

i think she was really naive but kind probably a little like austen at the time she wrote the book

i really didnt like Isabellaa

ditto!

Isabella is one of the cheekiest, most calculating characters I have ever come across

I am not sure about re. JA being naive

i agree. i wonder why they thought they had so much money??

If she were naive, she wouldnt have been able to be critical about those things and write about them surely?

maybe not but maybe someone in her family ??

maybe a sister?

I thought it might be the average teen girl at the time

i dont know

getting all dizzy with the prospect of being introduced and finding a husband for future

yeah i agree since gothic novels where so popular with young ladies at the time

one thing was different about her though that she was intelligent

learnt her lessons well

I thought maybe JA was saying that 'it is ok to be naive but you can learn through experience'

you dont have to play the fool like Mrs A for the rest of your life

i think she did in the end by saying what catherine had learned

about friendships and life

I like it, it's an easy read

I don't like the Thorpes, the younger generation, Mrs Thorpe is harmless...

i agree but she is a typical mother in JAs books, stupid to say the least

i wonder why she writes so negatively of parents

especially mothers

I dont remember one positive mother character in her books

yes it seems that she wrote the best about mr. bennet

husbands and fathers are presented more positively

well anne

Like Mr A in NA

anne's mom in persuasion but she was dead

I havent read that yet :)

I am trying to remember in MP

doesn't seem too big an improvement then, the mother are either ... simple or dead?

the dad was very firm but the mothers not and spoiled the children

I guess Catherine's mother is not so bad either

LOL A@ Jay

but i do agree. except like scher said catherine's mom is good but not quite sensitive of her daughter's feelings

I think Catherine's mother did what she could given the circumstances

maybe b/c she had so many children

at the beginning of NA she seemed quite ok, she didn't force Catherine to do things she didn't want to

with too many children and their circumstances

i agree

how about John??

he was a jerk

true brother of Isabella's

I simply could not believe the liberties he was taking with Catherine

yes, ideal siblings!

i dislike people who are inconsiderate

ideal for each other that is

thats like my pet peeve and he hit it

yes!

so improper

and he assumed that catherine would just marry him!

i am glad catherine never thought to like him

yes!

lol yeah i would have thought she was stupid

funny part was that they thought everyone was stupid enough to believe them

well I guess catherine was initially

she never questioned their motives

i know i think she saw through john but she truly like isabella

yes

but i knew that isabella was after her brother from the start

it was pretty obvious

yeah i was suprised catherine didnt see it

I think Catherine's problem was that she didnt think that they would have a secret agenda behind their actions even though she could see that they were not doing the right things

however, i had a good laugh out of Isabella's manipulation tactics

like pretending not to pay attention to guys but then following them in the street

that was cheap, lol

very

like a tramp

and all the time Catherine knew that but thought her friend didnt realise what she was doing was wrong

yeah and then when she asked if she should say something to her to let her know that it was wrong she was told not to.

yes

i liked elanor how about you?

me too

I think she's my fave character

I think she was told so because Mr A knew that Isabella is not as naive as Catherine

I liked Elanor too

i feel sorry for them being forced into the friendship at first but i think she truly like catherine

except for the fact that she didnt stand up to her father re. catherine

yeah but she was afraid of her father

when initially the General was paying attention to Catherine, I thought he might be interested in her himself

as a second wife

did you think that?

nope

i didnt i think he always had henry in mind

I thought 'yikes! Henry in one hand, and his father in the other'

because he didnt do much to encourage them to be together

he was taking catherine around, talking to her all the time

let us be the judge!

how about Catherine's brother?

i think he was really nice but naive like catherine or too much in love to notice

yes, though I really wished he could see through Isabella like Henry did

or Henry's brother

henry's brother i think was just messing with her

looked like it

yes

i think he knew what type of girl Isabella was

i agree

i think that the abbey was kinda spooky

I was thinking about Catherine's experience at the Abbey

why do you think JA included those chapters?

providing that the abbey was spooky and the general trend of gothic novels...?

to show how naive that catherine is and about how the gothic novels can mess with the reader's head

I don't know, I quite like spooky places

though there's no doubt about the mess in my head ;)

hehe

it is possible that JA was being critical of the Gothic novel

lol just possible huh?

but also the whole Abbey experience I meant

not only her first night at the Abbey

the whole time she spent at the Abbey

she went there just so that she could be kicked out it?

i think it also brought her and henry a little bit closer

yup she did really

I agree... Henry and Cathrine had a chance to get to know each other better... without Isabella and John's interference

and she got to become better friends with elanor

I was also wondering if JA wanted to show that things are not what they seem actually

because Catherine had idealised the Abbey and the people living there

but the Abbey turned out to be a boring place for Catherine

they had made many changes to it

and the general was not the nicest person at the end

so maybe JA wanted Catherine to learn that she shouldnt take things on their face value?

seems like it

behind all that grandeur, there wasnt much to go

lol i agree with the part about her needing to see things for that they are

where there's a will there's an or

if she really wanted she could have ignored all that didn't comply with her idea of the abbey

but Catherine is a clever girl

which is why she didnt ignore things, learned from her experiences

i agree

i wonder about henry's mom what kind of person what she?

what kind of woman do you think she was?

huh I thought she was dead?

I think she brought up her kids nicely

a spoilt one I think

sort of like mrs bennet

what makes you think that way?

actually I read somwhere that all the paerents in austen books are a cry for help

which is why they are all so awful in their own ways

[Scheherazade]

we just talked about the deficiency of parents in JA books

i dont think they are so bad

just most of them

yes

who wasnt bad ?

the bennets

there are a few that seem to be good.

woodhouse

Mr B was nice

annes father

Fannys paerents

now you are being sarcastic

anne's father didnt care about her at all

Aunt whats her face from mansfield park lady maria and her husband

and catherine's parents werent so bad

examples for not so good parents from JA novels

yes they were they spoilt them and they wweerent main parts in the story

all the MANI paerent were nasty

but why do you think Mrs Tilney was spoilt?

I thought she was mainly an oppressed woman

Mr B was not nice he liked wickham he was selfish and nasty

the husband is far too controlling so she did her best in those circumstances

how do you know??

mr b didnt know him and neither did elizabeth at first it was only after darcy's letter

Mr B did not like Wickham

exactly

at the end, when he found out about Wickham, he simply turned him out of the house

I think she was silly and foolish and probably spoilt hwich is why she married that nutcase in the first place then she was spoilt which is why she sppoilt her eldest

but didnt he says somthing about darcy would not be like his fav soninlaw wickham??

but what proof do ou have?

none

just trends in style actually ohh thats made me think of somthing totally OT I can gointo my theories if we have an alcott m,onth

so i probably mised this but what did you think of catherine??

nice, naive, not too dull

I dont think Mrs T was spoilt as I said

She did her best with a husband like the General

ok maybe im just twisting my charcters up its a possibility


I thought Catherine was naive but intelligent

and learnt from her experiences

you didnt like H?

oh well he was the nicest character in the book

but he was annoying and snotty and whats the word

mysognist or is it chavanist

I didnt find Henry annoying and snotty

I always get those to confused

I am not sure how you get all these?

i dont either

i think at first he was a little arrogant but most guys are

he just annoyed me alot thats all cant exatly tell you why except he seemed to laugh at Catherine alot more than with her

also we shouldnt forget the times the book was written

very true

they had different norms then

he is just what I thought Mr bennet would have been like when he wa young

didnt realise you wher you if you know what i mean till you left?

I thought all along he tried to warn Catherine about Isabel without being rude


yes that I did see

and that is one ofthe few times I really totally like him in the book

and he did realise that Catherine lacked life experience

true

humm yes

he wasnt patronizing like John or controlling like the General

i think he was feeling pressured to be with her at times too which made him a little distant maybe

yes, I thought so too

he wasnt comfortable with his father's interference

trying to play the matchmaker

I thought h was pretty patronising on that walk but then again so was Darcy actually come to think of it I dont think Ive liked any of the Austen males??

humm actualy I do Like edmund

no especially when they went to his house (not his father's)

because he liked Catherine for different reasons from his fathers

did he know his fathers reasons?

austen males... they do come across like that because of the ignorance of the females I think

I cant remember

i am glad that he fell in love with her she needed something good to happen

he knew that his father thought catherine was rich

yes, so am i!

i think that in the end he proved himself to be worthy of her

i suppose me too

i think even though catherine lacked the experience and worldly knowledge, her intelligence and common sense will help her to keep up with henry

but my fav was the viscount who married elenor

he did nt give in to his father's wishes

why?

I like elonor best I think on reflection

we never get to know the viscount

i know who was he?

in the end i felt like i missed something

last page or so hes the reason they got the happy ending

general would have eventuallly came around

and more importantly Eleanor got her happy ending and let me see oh yes he was afraid of her nasty father

or wait was he??

I dont think henry would have deterred by his father anyway

ha thats what you think

dont really know since i didnt read anything about him until the end

yes but her parents wouldnt let her marry him without his fathers blessing

yes, but then that would have been a test for catherine, not for henry

true but i think the general would have agreed eventually but it help alot that elanor married well

would she follow her heart or her parents?

parents I should think she was folish but not that foolish

I think a mature character would follow her heart

and dont forget as an austen heroine she wouldnt have wanted to upset hr parents

She would tell her parents that she is marrying Henry, not his father

if those standards were still in place today i would never have been able to marry my hubby so i am glad we dont live by those standards (as in the getting money for the marriage thing)

probably not but if she had to choose... especially if it is not a logical reason like her parents

i think that she would have followed her heart.

the dowry was a hard thing

funny thing in my culture it used to be other way round

men had to pay huge amounts of money to the girl's family

still I like my paterns of behaviour and austen heroines all follow a patern and thats what I think the patttern was mind yyou anne did come close to breaking it so maybe

is in my cultuere still

not so sure really

thats what i thinking (about anne)

elizabeth did stand up to her mother

she is always critical of her

and fanny and edmund

yes but not to her father only to one it was always thesame they could stnad up to one or love one more

yes, they did stood up as well

did they ?? I dot remember that?

well elizabeth's father was a logical man with lots of common sense

he always supported her decisions

I thought everyone was happy that they decided to get married well excepot aunt whats her face

true that

i like mr B

I dont he resorted to emotional blackmail

how so?

huh?

what a hard decion this is from this day you will deprived of one of your parents...

he knew she loved him more so wouldnt marry collins not that s=he wanted to

but stilll

it was wrong and nasty

I think he didnt want elizabeth to make a mistake

but if she had wanted to, i have a feeling that he would have given his blessing

he knew what was best for her and didnt want her to make the same kind of mistakes that he make in marrying someone he truly didnt love

made

yes

he wanted her to marry for love

maybe dont agree with you but hey its literature

thats what its there for

and to be happy with someone who was smart and strong enough to except her for who she is

exactly

we interpret it differently

but i always like mr B

going back to NA

ok

i really really didnt the general

didnt...?

me neither

what a jerk

like?

but he wass amusing when i wasnt swearing at him

Didnt find him amusing

yes like sorry why would he want them to marry someone with money when he had so mcuh

initially i was worried that he might be fancying Catherine himself and then was annoyed with his patronizing, controlling manners

i only find him amusing on reflerction when im not @in@ the story so to speak

money marrying money was the norm in those days

yeah but some where just trying to get more

well it was his illbreadness(??) in tossing her out that really got me

yeah

me too that was just wrong

yes, that was a terrible thing to do

especially because it wasnt her fault that he had these misconceptions about her status and wealth

hes catherine debourgh all over but more extreme amusing when you think how he had to be right and everything he was conected to had to be great like isabells brother exacty

yes but it couldnt be his fault could it??

at least not to him so he had to blame her or feel stupid

he should have been upset with John for telling him all those fibs

lose face ec

yes but he should have belived them and he knew it which is why he was so annoyed

it is amazing that how two people's lies and actions affected so many

no

humm maybe thats what the story is about

Well originally I thjought it was jus a stoory I rarely think about it that much then I thought and nothing but it could be lies

who was it who said O what somthing we we weave when first we prractice to decive

oh yes scott aroundtaustns time right

Tangeld thats it

the thing is nothing is just a story

I believe all the authors write for a reason

we agree their point of view or not, is another story

or sometimes we cannot see their point at all

yes well I do tio when I think about it I just dont think about it although someone said in an interview they wrote because the stories tell them to write and they really dont have a choice

[papayahed]

I finished the book yesterday. It was ok.

[NNoah3]

Unfortunately, we were not allowed to take photos but I got some postcards and a small guide, which I will post here.
Wow!!!! Great pictures!!!!
I missed the NA Live chat :bawling: