The Best of the 20th Century (British)

[Scheherazade]

Today, with a friend of mine, we have spent couple of hours discussing and trying to agree on the best British author and novel of the 20th century.

(*note to self: Get a life... Urgently!* :D)

I have read only two books of his (Lord of the Flies and Free Fall) but, I think, William Golding could be the best British author of the 20th century because of the issues he deals with (war, freedom, human nature).

As for a novel... My nomination would be 1984 because of its wide-spread affect and, again, the issues it deals with are some of the main concerns of the century.

What are your thoughts on this?

-Can you nominate one name, one book?
-Why would you consider the best?

I would also like to hear what your criterias are to decide on 'the best'.

-Literary 'superiority'?
-Popularity?
-The issues they deal with?

[mono]

Hmmm, I must look up a few birth and death years . . .
I absolutely love William Golding (1911-1993), and cannot resist his works, but, if it counts, I may have to choose either Virginia Woolf (1882-1941) or D.H. Lawrence (1885-1930), both of whom wrote most of their works in the 20th century.
Other writers who, I think, deserve a mention: T.S. Eliot (1888-1965), E.M. Forster (1879-1970), Kingsley Amis (1922-1995).
If I chose my favorite English poet from the 20th century, however, I would feel compelled to D.H. Lawrence. :nod:
Interesting thread - thanks, Scher!

[Jantex]

Well, I haven`t read "Lord Of The Flies",yet. I`ll do ,soon...
So,my opinion on the topic is definately "1984".It`s my favourite book. It`s the best, I think.As far as it is concerned with life,things in life..They are very well defined.It`s a glamorous work ,really.

[mono]

Oh, and thinking of poets, I have no idea how I could have forgotten about W.H. Auden (1907-1973). Glancing through some of his poetry today, I happened to recall this thread, also remembering he came from England. :D

[Aramis]

Does Tolkien count? Even though he was born in 1892, he was actually writing in the 20th century. (He died in 1973.) If he does count, I'll nominate The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King.

[Capnplank]

My vote for novel would probably be Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley.

Author is a tougher choice, as I have barely gotten past the more recognized novels by any British authors, and don't really feel so qualified to pit them against each other. If I were to try to take a glance to the left but be quickly obstructed by a gun barrel braced against my temple, though, with the command that I pick one: I guess George Orwell. Though not much else of his is widely mentioned, having penned both 1984 *and* Animal Farm definitely puts his lifetime achievement right up there with any larger body of work from anyone else I can think of. And then he does have his other stuff, too, and plenty of it...

Others I would feel remiss for not mentioning (that I haven't yet seen in this thread) would be:
Aldous Huxley, Graham Greene, Robert Graves, H.G. Wells (not so sure about the timing, I know he had some stuff around 1898-99 or so, but if he squeezes in there, he definitely made a large contribution to literature)...

[nothingman87]

No one can ignore the elephant standing in the corner of this discussion. Joseph Conrad wrote some of his best novels in the 20th century, including probably the most penetrating study of man's conscience during the century -- Heart of Darkness (1902).
Also the first political thriller, The Secret Agent, influencing later British authors like Graham Greene and John Le Carre. And not to mention Lord Jim (1900), Nostromo (1904), and Under Western Eyes (1911).

[blp]

Strongly agree. I think I might well say Conrad was best. If he didn't exist, I'd have trouble picking a favourite. Always thought of him as a nineteenth century author, so thanks nothingman. Heart of Darkness is one of the all time great works in the language and The Secret Agent is also superb.

Orwell, Woolf, Golding, Greene, Anthony Burgess.

Are Irish authors disqualified? Ulysses has obviously got to be a contender for greatest novel of the century.

T.S. Eliot is my number one in English poetry. (nitpickers - he may have started off American, but spent virtually all his working life in England and eventually took citizenship).

[Scheherazade]

Thank you for your responses :)

I would also like to hear what criterias you consider while making your choices:

-Literary 'superiority'? How do we decide on this one?
-Popularity?
-The issues they deal with?
-The effect they have had?

[mono]

I would also like to hear what your criterias you consider while making your choices:

-Literary 'superiority'? How do we decide on this one?
-Popularity?
-The issues they deal with?
-The effect they have had?
Hmmm, interesting questions, and very difficult to answer.
-Literary superiority seems a greatly relative term that sounds subjectively judged. Calling one English 20th century author superior over another determines taste; some would say J.R.R. Tolkein, for example, but, not to offend anyone, I would disagree. In terms of the most superior mind, according to literature's applications to societies of multiple eras, William Golding wrote very well in Lord Of The Flies, but I cannot deny, George Orwell (though born in India) in 1984, and Virginia Woolf in A Room Of One's Own.
-For popularity, definitely either William Golding (I remember required reading of [I]Lord Of The Flies in high school), Aldous Huxley, or George Orwell; but mainly Golding.
-"The issues they deal with" . . . I do not think I understand. :p
-The effect an author had probably makes the biggest impact on deciding the "best" 20th century English author, but this, I think, also depends on the person's interests. True, Tolkein and Orwell had a lot to say, and have made an immense impact on many readers, which I respect, but I cannot quite call them my cup-of-tea. Woolf continues to have a huge impact on modern feminists; and minds like T.S. Eliot, among others, I have always thought as a latter-English transcendentalists by some of his writings.

[EAP]

Choosing one book: 'Silmarillion' by Professor Tolkien.

Why I choose It: Staggering emotional impact. Beautifully written and the most satisfying book I have ever read.

My choice is based on my (subjective) personal experience since I believe it is the only honest evaluation we can give.

Chosing one author: George Orwell. And not only for 1984 and Animal Farm. His essays are some of the most sensible, well-written and interesting pieces of writing I have ever read. And I love his writing style. Not to mention books like 'Down and Out In London and Paris' and 'The Road To Wigan Pier'.

[Arizona]

While reading M. R. James' ghost story 'Wailing Well' I came accross the abbrevations ma. and mi. being used after the same name Stanley Judkins, like so Stanley Judkins ma. and Stanley Judkins mi.
I was wondering what this would mean in regards to the character. Mi. is used once at the start of the story, as is ma., but towards the end after Stanley dies mi. is used once again.
Could anyone please tell me what this means?

[hazelk]

I shall put forward "London Belongs To Me" by Norman Collins, it was written in 1945.

[Lokasenna]

I'm glad to see Tolkien has already been mentioned, and I wholeheartedly agree - without doubt the author of the century.

As for the best book, that's a little tricky. While the professional medievalist in me wants to hold up the complete Lord of the Rings, not only for the consumate skill of its authorship but also for its originality and impact on all that followed. That said, however, I'm going to demure and go for 1984 instead - while LotR is literature for all time, 1984 is very much an essential part of the fabric of the 20th century. I truly believe that one cannot fully understand the last hundred years without having read it.

[Seasider]

I'd like to add Anthony Powell for his series A Dance to the Music of Time. It's a wonderful guide to the cultural climate of Britain between 1925 and 1975. And Kenneth Widmerpool is a great comic creation. A large cast of characters many of whom drop in and out of the action. He's a fine writer and personally I prefer him to Evelyn Waugh who was a friend of his.

[OrphanPip]

To me personally, I would say Howards End by E.M. Forster.

In terms of breadth of influence and importance, Conrad or Woolf.

[dfloyd]

one of the best of the early 20th century. Or possibly the best: W. Somerset Maugham.

[Lord Macbeth]

Deos T.S. Eliot's "The Waste Land" count?

Born in the US but lived a considerable amount of his life in England, went to school both places...?

[kelby_lake]

I'd go for Sons and Lovers, because I like it :)

[Emil Miller]

It's interesting that this thread has been resurrected after five years in abeyance and it's unlikely that anything written in the interim is likely to be seriously mentioned. However, given that the views presented will necessarily be subjective, for my part it's too hard to call but it would probably be one of the following:

The Moon and Sixpence
Brighton Rock
Brideshead Revisited.

[Virgil]

As much as I hate to say it, but I'll have to go with James Joyce's Ullysses.

Edit: Does Joyce, who is Irish, count as British? I'm not sure about that.

[Scheherazade]

It's interesting that this thread has been resurrected after five years in abeyance and it's unlikely that anything written in the interim is likely to be seriously mentioned.Anything written in the interim would not count as "20th century" anyway but as "21st"!

:smilewinkgrin:
As much as I hate to say it, but I'll have to go with James Joyce's Ullysses.

Edit: Does Joyce, who is Irish, count as British? I'm not sure about that.I think Joyce is Irish rather than British.

[Emil Miller]

Anything written in the interim would not count as "20th century" anyway but as "21st"!

:smilewinkgrin:.

Doesn't time fly?

[dfloyd]

But I think there are better books by these authors. I would choose both Of Human Bondage and The Razor's Edge over The Moon .... As for Graham Greene, I would choose a couple of his Entertainments such as This Gun for Sale (for Hire in Americanese) or Stamboul Train. Maybe even Our Man in Havana. I agree in total with his last pick: undoubtably Waugh's bestwork.

Also,no one ever picks a mystery or espionage novel. Writing doesn't get any better than Le Carre's Spy Who Came in from the Cold or Tinker, Tailor, Soldier,Spy. Or Ambler's A Coffin for Dimitrious.

[sixsmith]

Come on folks. The 20th wasn't a great century for British fiction but surely we can do better than a middling plodder like Somerset Maugham or an out and out hack like John Le Carre. After all we have:

Mrs Dalloway - Virginia Woolf
Heart of Darkness - Conrad
Brideshead Revisited - Evelyn Waugh
A House for Mr Biswas - VS Naipaul


Naipaul's Britishness is likely arguable, but it's clear we need all hands on deck.

[Emil Miller]

But I think there are better books by these authors. I would choose both Of Human Bondage and The Razor's Edge over The Moon .... As for Graham Greene, I would choose a couple of his Entertainments such as This Gun for Sale (for Hire in Americanese) or Stamboul Train. Maybe even Our Man in Havana. I agree in total with his last pick: undoubtably Waugh's bestwork.

Also,no one ever picks a mystery or espionage novel. Writing doesn't get any better than Le Carre's Spy Who Came in from the Cold or Tinker, Tailor, Soldier,Spy. Or Ambler's A Coffin for Dimitrious.

Well, as I have said, our choices are bound to be subjective. It so happens that I have read The Razors Edge twice as many times as The Moon and Sixpence or Of Human Bondage but I, albeit narrowly, prefer it.
As for Greene's entertainments, that is exactly what they are and he obviously wanted to make a distinction between his serious work such as The End of the Affair, The Heart of the Matter etc and his lighter novels.
The spy story is a genre that is more likely to lend itself to good rather than great writing on account of the inherent melodramatic scenarios it embraces.l

[Virgil]

:smilewinkgrin:I think Joyce is Irish rather than British.

So Irish doesn't count as British. Welch and Scottish do. Ok.

Then I'll pick The Rainbow by D.H. Lawrence.

[Delta40]

Agatha Christie

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

No one can ignore the elephant standing in the corner of this discussion. Joseph Conrad wrote some of his best novels in the 20th century, including probably the most penetrating study of man's conscience during the century -- Heart of Darkness (1902).
Also the first political thriller, The Secret Agent, influencing later British authors like Graham Greene and John Le Carre. And not to mention Lord Jim (1900), Nostromo (1904), and Under Western Eyes (1911).

"Nothingman87" stole my limited thunder five years ago with Conrad.

.

[prendrelemick]

It's hard for me to look beyond The Lord Of The Rings.

Not because of the issues it addresses or its popularity, simply because I love a good story.

I think it has literary merit in the pacing of the story, in the slowly developing language , in its simplicity and its universality. The vastness of Tokien's imaginary universe is often commented on, and rightly so, but the success of the book is that he has controlled it, shaped it and been able to get it down on paper in a coherent form.

[Veho]

So Irish doesn't count as British. Welch and Scottish do. Ok.

Then I'll pick The Rainbow by D.H. Lawrence.

Joyce was born in the ROI (as you might know), which is not a part of the United Kingdom, hence he's Irish not British. If he was born in Northern Ireland he would be British.

[dfloyd]

an out and out hack. I must remind you that an attack upon a man is the lowest form of argument. It makes my respect for your opinions nil. Both authors have had high readership over a period of years, much more so then Virginia Woolf. Ms Woolf 's readership is limited to academics and students. No one picks up one of her novels to read for enjoyment. Her novels are not abstruse, they are just out and out boring. For proof of this, I dare anyone not of the two classes given above to read Ms Woolf. Try reading her in bed. She is the perfect cure for insomnia.

[Virgil]

Joyce was born in the ROI (as you might know), which is not a part of the United Kingdom, hence he's Irish not British. If he was born in Northern Ireland he would be British.

But when Joyce wrote Ulysses, there was only one Ireland and it was part of Britain, or so I think.

[TheFifthElement]

But when Joyce wrote Ulysses, there was only one Ireland and it was part of Britain, or so I think.

Indeed you are correct, Virgil. Joyce's nationality would have been British as Ireland was part of Great Britain at the time. That being said, he is still generally considered to be an Irish writer. So British in the same sense that Edwin Morgan was Scottish and British and D.H. Lawrence is English and British.

Surprised no one's mentioned Fowles or Amis (Kingsley) or Burgess. Have to agree with Woolf in terms of influence and probably Tolkien in terms of reach. I'd also say that David Mitchell is a future classic and one day someone other than sixsmith and Jozanny will agree with me :D (read him people!)

edit - oops! Both Burgess and Amis get a mention. Make that Fowles and Mitchell then :D

[Emil Miller]

Come on folks. The 20th wasn't a great century for British fiction but surely we can do better than a middling plodder like Somerset Maugham. .


This reminds me of the story of the man who told Toscanini that Rossini's music may have been popular but it wasn't very good. Toscanini replied "You try writing something like it."

[Patrick_Bateman]

I have to say Orwell
I adore T.S Eliot but - although he renounced his US citizenship and considered himself and his heart to be British - he's American.

[hazelk]

British writer Rose Tremain, she has written some wonderful novels. Her best I think just made it, written in 1999 "Music and Silence"

[Virgil]

Indeed you are correct, Virgil. Joyce's nationality would have been British as Ireland was part of Great Britain at the time. That being said, he is still generally considered to be an Irish writer. So British in the same sense that Edwin Morgan was Scottish and British and D.H. Lawrence is English and British.


Thanks Fifth. :)

[David Lurie]

For proof of this, I dare anyone not of the two classes given above to read Ms Woolf. Try reading her in bed. She is the perfect cure for insomnia.

I don't read in bed because I have a comfortable armchair in my study, I don't belong to "the two classes given above" but I have read all of her novels and I constantly return to them because they are rich texts and every time I re-read them I enjoy them anew and understand them more, not many writers enchant me this way.
Your "two classes" is a misconception: here in Italy Virginia Woolf is considered a modern classic and is widely read.
As for me, Woolf and Golding are the best British writers of the 20th century, but I'd like to mention a writer no one has considered here: Muriel Spark.

PS: I guess my three choices explain by themselves my criterion of choice.

[Virgil]

an out and out hack. I must remind you that an attack upon a man is the lowest form of argument. It makes my respect for your opinions nil. Both authors have had high readership over a period of years, much more so then Virginia Woolf. Ms Woolf 's readership is limited to academics and students. No one picks up one of her novels to read for enjoyment. Her novels are not abstruse, they are just out and out boring. For proof of this, I dare anyone not of the two classes given above to read Ms Woolf. Try reading her in bed. She is the perfect cure for insomnia.

You can say the same thing about James Joyce or a host of other writers. While it may not make them greater for it, it doesn't make them less of anything. I happen to think Woolf is a great writer and To The Lighthouse is probably in the top ten of novels of the 20th century.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I agree with the assessment of Woolf as a great writer (interesting to read that she is read in Italy too). I can't reallly add to the names of great British writers that's not already been covered - Woolf and Orwell in particular for me.

[Veho]

Ms Woolf 's readership is limited to academics and students. No one picks up one of her novels to read for enjoyment. Her novels are not abstruse, they are just out and out boring.

Strange, I did just that yesterday.