the world according to garp by john irving

[mister_noel_y2k]

i've read 50 pages of this book and am wondering if its worth continuing. i am also reading two fantastic books (crime and punishment and the secret history) and frankly, garp doesn't come up to a very good standard. i've been reading a lot of amazon reviews of the book and have to agree with the negative ones more as it's a dull book, a bland book, and a rambling book. i'm close to just giving it away to the next charity shop i pass when i'm out next.

but what does everyone else think of this book? is it worth persevering?

[Sitaram]

I have not read the book, but now, you have me curious.

I did some searching and came up with the following excerpts:

I do not think these constitute a S P O I L E R, but read at your own risk:

http://books.guardian.co.uk/authors/author/0,5917,-91,00.html



If my ideas mattered to me, I wouldn't write novels. I'm not an intellectual; I'm a carpenter - I build stories.


http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/owenmeany/context.html


John Irving studied at the Institute for European Studies in Vienna under the tutelage of the acclaimed German novelist Gunter Grass. Irving studied at the highly prestigious Writer's Workshop at the University of Iowa, where he was mentored by Kurt Vonnegut.




Irving has always aspired to be a storyteller in the Dickensian sense, and his novels--frequently long, sprawling narratives featuring fantastical plots and memorable characters--are written for the intelligent general reader. In that sense, Irving's work lies somewhere between literary and popular fiction: he has not been widely accepted as an artistically important American writer, but his work is critically acclaimed and beloved by millions of people.


http://www.uh.edu/hti/cu/2000/v01/02.htm

John Irving's purpose in Garp is to encourage us as humans to be examples of tolerance by being tolerant of the intolerant.

Irving wants us to laugh at ourselves and the world around us and cherish the energy that is life by living in the moment.

Irving uses the literary technique of the story within the story to help the reader better understand symbol, character, and underlying theme. Of the three "stories" in Garp, the most memorable is "The Pension Grillparzer." The predominant figure and symbol of this story is Duna, the unicycling bear. Duna is domesticated and is a productive and useful circus performer in his prime. As he grows older, housing laws forbid Duna living in the pension with humans, so he is abandoned to a cage in the alley, where he is antagonized by cats and children. He becomes very depressed. Finally, despite his advancing years, Schonbrunn Zoo accepts him as a charity case. In one last attempt to regain some usefulness and dignity, Duna attempts to unicycle for the spectators at the zoo. Being unstable and old, he loses his balance and falls when somebody laughs. He then becomes stressed from embarrassment and develops a rash on his great chest. All his fur must be shaved. He literally dies of embarrassment.

http://www.etrav.com/pathways/html/schonbrunn.asp


The name "Schönbrunn" comes from the words schöner brunnen, meaning "beautiful fountain." The name given to this entire area of Vienna and shared by the magnificent palace derives from a natural spring that the Emperor Mathias discovered in the early 17th century in this spot.


Sitaram wonders if there is not some potent symbolism hidden in the name of that zoo. Though Irving insists that he his not an intellectual, but a carpenter who builds stories. But then, Jesus was a carpenter's son, so look out!

Irving makes a parable from the dictum in the Old Testament, "an eye for an eye," to "an ear for an ear." As a child, Garp loses one of his earlobes to the unleashed neighborhood dog, Bonkers. Years later, on Garp's graduation day from Steering, he has another encounter with "Bonkie," only this time:

In the scuffle, an ear appeared–in Garp's mouth–and Garp bit it. He bit as hard as he could, and Bonkers howled. He bit Bonker's ear in memory of his own missing flesh; he bit him for the four years he'd spent at Steering and for his mother's eighteen years.

The entire novel has the mythic quality of the Bible. Garp is conceived of an almost "virgin birth," of a father of mysterious origin. His mother is worshipped as the prophetess of the age, and both are terminated by an intolerant society. Garp is assassinated at the age of thirty-tree, the same age at which the Christ was crucified. The epilogue trails the outcomes of the Jenny and Garp disciples and family members, revealing in Irving's ironic style the particular maiming or disease that claims each.





http://www.jagular.com/fourthhand.shtml

Here is why I like John Irving's novels:



They are smart

They are funny

The word usage and sentence structure are sophisticated, without being pedantic (this reminds me very much of Robertson Davies, with whom John Irving had a friendship for many years)


There are always several compelling stories, with interesting details, interwoven together in an interesting way; any of the stories, or any of the 4 or 5 main characters, could easily fill a novel on their own, and so when you put them all together, you get something which is very rich (The World According To Garp was especially good in this regard)


The sexual thoughts and sexual habits of the characters seem real, as opposed to being written to underplay, or over-emphasize, the sexual aspects of their lives, and it is clear that John Irving likes sex, and that he is not embarrassed to write about it (he even wrote a very good story about an adult brother and his adult sister having an incestuous relationship in The Hotel New Hampshire)


http://www.stanuu.org/riptides.html



"The undertow is bad today."

"The undertow is strong today."

"The undertow is wicked today." Wicked was a big word in New Hampshire - not just for the undertow.

And for years Walt had watched out for it. From the first, when he asked what it could do to you, he had only been told that it could pull you out to sea. It could suck you under and drown you and drag you away.

It was Walt's fourth summer at Dog's Head Harbor, Duncan remembered, when Garp and Helen and Duncan observed Walt watching the sea. He stood ankle-deep in the foam from the surf and peered into the waves, without taking a step, for the longest time. The family went down to the water's edge to have a word with him.

"What are you doing, Walt?" Helen asked.

"I'm trying to see the Under Toad." Walt said

"The what?" said Garp.

"The Under Toad," Walt said. "I'm trying to see it. How big is it?"

And Garp and Helen and Duncan held their breath; they realized that all these years Walt had been dreading a giant toad, lurking offshore, waiting to suck him under and drag him out to sea. The terrible Under Toad.

Garp tried to imagine it with him. Would it ever surface? Did it ever float? Or was it always down under, slimy and bloated and ever-watchful for ankles its coated tongue could snare? The vile Under Toad.

Between Helen and Garp, the Under Toad became their code phrase for anxiety. Long after the monster was clarified for Walt ("Undertow, dummy, not Under Toad!" Duncan had howled), Garp and Helen evoked the beast as a way of referring to their own sense of danger. When the traffic was heavy, when the road was icy - when depression had moved in overnight - they said to each other, "The Under Toad is strong today."





Brahman, is basically bored because. . . well, because he is a Supreme Being. It's lonely at the top. And while full control over everything on the planet may be fun for awhile, knowing every single thing that is going to happen means a life without any surprises, any fun. So, for fun, Brahman falls asleep and dreams a world - our world, in fact. In this dream he plays all the parts: all the trees and flowers, the crocodiles and Siamese cats, me and you. He does this so he can once again experience that joyous myriad of unknown outcomes and surprises that define everyday life.




In his essay Self-Reliance Ralph Waldo Emerson seems to promote mindfulness, though he doesn't call it that. He simply says: "Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time. Emerson implores us to accept the place the divine providence has found for us, the society of our contemporaries, the connection of events..

A decade later we find Henry David Thoreau talking about living deliberately. He wishes to "learn what life has to teach", having no interest in living "what is not life." "If it proves to be mean," he proclaims, "then to get the whole and genuine meanness of it. .

[mister_noel_y2k]

yeah thats fine sitaram but i really just wanted people who use this board's opinions not just a bunch of quotes cobbled together that i could just look up on amazon anyway (and i did).

[Sitaram]

My apologies for marring your excellent thread with my thoughtless post. Oh well, what is done is done. I will try not to repeat my mistake in the future.

I am sure many forum members will be stampeding to this thread in just a little while, to give you the kind of posts you really want. I am just waving a red flag at the bulls, to put them in a charging, stampeding mood.

At this very moment, the forum shows eleven views of this post, so the day is young.

Maybe some visitors will read these excerpts and become enthusiastic about joining the forum and reading Irving's novels, and then they will return to this thread and post some really useful opinions that you will find valuable.

Who knows, it is theoretically possible that John Irving himself will find this in a search engine, join our forum, and post his advice to you about why you should read another 50 pages and not give away the book to a charity shop.

Of course, if Irving were to do that, perhaps you would find something objectionable about his posts. Perhaps they would not be the sort of thing you are really after.

Life doesn't always give us what we want.

I have taken the liberty to read through your entire posting history, to get an idea of what sort of helpful posts you might be anticipating from others.

http://online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?p=52894#post52894


I'm one of those people who gets through 60-70 books a year.

Since you read so many books per year, I would urge you to finish this book, since you are already 50 pages into it.

[Bianca Fransen]

Ehm.. well, I cannot contribute much. I loved The world according to Garp, but already did so after 50 pages.. So I guess it is safe to say that if it does not appeal to you now, you might better turn it away. I think you either love books by John Irving or dislike them.

Sitaram, thank you for writing about the biblical aspects of the book. I have never seen it in this light, but think there are indead striking parallels. Interesting to read about them..

[Sitaram]

There, you see, I have found my redemption in Bianca Fransen. I have not lived my life and posted in vain! I always knew there was some reason why I was placed upon this earth!

Aha! And now I see the self-serving reason why Bianca likes Irving so much!



Irving has written Setting Free the Bears (1968)

[Bianca Fransen]

There, you see, I have found my redemption in Bianca Fransen. I have not lived my life and posted in vain! I always knew there was some reason why I was placed upon this earth!
:) :thumbs_up

[mister_noel_y2k]

i do get through a large number of books in a year but i'd prefer them to be ones that i enjoy rather than ones that i speed read because i just wanted them to be over. therefore, i give garp to charity where someone somewhere in my area will pick it up, the money going to charity, and then read it and maybe enjoy it, thus giving the book a new lease of life from a more appreciative audience. and as for your posts, yes i do think they're far too detailed, i mean why bother with all those extra nuances on a book you haven't even read? i don't understand it at all. get a life is what i'd say to you sir.

[mono]

i do get through a large number of books in a year but i'd prefer them to be ones that i enjoy rather than ones that i speed read because i just wanted them to be over. therefore, i give garp to charity where someone somewhere in my area will pick it up, the money going to charity, and then read it and maybe enjoy it, thus giving the book a new lease of life from a more appreciative audience. and as for your posts, yes i do think they're far too detailed, i mean why bother with all those extra nuances on a book you haven't even read? i don't understand it at all. get a life is what i'd say to you sir.
mister_noel, this seems quite unnecessary, and I quote you merely to highlight this moment in your frustration, in case you desire to edit your post. Not as a moderator, but as a devoted member, I urge you to review the Forum Rules, posted here, for your convenience:
http://www.online-literature.com/forums/announcement.php?f=9
Notice the following lines that print thus:

In general, you may not use your membership here for:

Flaming, baiting, trolling or personal attacks on other posters. Threatening, harrassing, abusing or intimidating others.
As usual, while posting, I try not to take or form opposing sides, but looking at Sitaram's intention of helping the thread I find a noble act; I have no doubt that he meant well, though it did not quite satisfy your desire. If it bothers you enough, perhaps you should ignore his messages, instead of jeopardizing others chance at reading the free expression of posting on a public forum.
As a member, I think it everyone's duty in maintaining peace on the forum, and discussing literature, according to readers. I adapt this idea partially off of the philosophy of Immanuel Kant; perhaps your reading of 60-70 books per year does not quite allow you to read something so enlightening, but in his Groundwork for the Metaphysic of Morals, Kant writes much of acting according to one's duty, and aiming toward justice with intention, rather than the end product.
I will no longer deviate the subject of your thread, intended at John Irving's brilliant work, The World According to Garp, but I find it necessary to respect your fellow members.

[mister_noel_y2k]

i find it bizarre that someone can write umpteen posts about a book they havent even read

[baddad]

Oh My MY My!!! Mr. Y2k!! Not going to finish a book??? How will you be able to honestly say "...it really sucked wind" if you don't read the entire tome ( and for 'Garp', tome is definately applicable). Sure, 50 pages of any tale should give some indication of whether or not any appreciative interest will be stirred, but 'Garp' is a long tale, and IMHO well worth reading. If you've absolutely no interest in finishing the book, by all means, the donation to charity idea. But at the least I will suggest renting the movie (starring Robin Williams of all people) before judging the work.

And yes, I've READ the book............. Garp is a tale of inequities, a tale of mysoginy, a tale of life struggles and temptations, redemption, murder and betrayal. Garp is all about the little vagaries buffeting people's lives, swaying and knocking them off of the well-worn paths they would prefer to follow. 'Garp' is about disillusionment, it is about losing the much-sought-after adherence to one's dreams, and the cultish-fad-popculture-fundamentalist actions chosen by so many who have lost their own dreams.....and the tale is very twisted in a sick mentality sort of way......
......but Hey, no matter what you think of the tale, it will look good on your library shelf.............and someday you may be in the space to enjoy it. But like you said, you can also set it free, whether you love it or not.......

[Capnplank]

I loved it. It caused me to go on to a few other Irving novels, which I also enjoyed though many of the themes got repetitive (bears, incest, Austria, hotels, etc.)...

I was easily hooked on The World According to Garp in the first fifty pages, but I also thought it got better as it went along. I found it an interesting, humorous depiction of a writer with instant success and the events in his life that inspired it and the following works he came out with (Ah, The World According to Bensenhaver or whatever his name was).
I especially loved the whole Ellen Jamesians thing -- so bitter...

[Isagel]

I read this book a long time ago ( sometimes it feel like all the books I´ve read was a long time ago) I had to look up descriptions of the book to remember the plot.

I bought the book from a garage sale for charity. I picked it up read the first sentences and to the teenage me it was a revelation. I still remember the moment, although I can´t remember what the sentence was.

I do remember a joyful bewilderment throughout the book. Garp had an outsiders eye looking at things making the world such an strange place. It was absurd, and funny - but there was also the Under Toad , dark and slimy and just under the surface in all the stories. A riptide that threatend to carry Garp away, and threatned anyone beacuse life sometimes is absurd to adegree that can be almost to much to deal with. Yes, I remembered the Under Toad (in the swedish translation it´s an under lobster. I was glad to read the english text here. A slimy under toad makes more sense than the under lobster). I have kept that picture with me, and thought about it during bad days.

So - why are my memories important to you?
Because it makes me think that if you do not like the first 50 pages, you will not like the rest. If you think it just rambling, this just isn´t your kind of book. Give the book to charity, and someone else like me can find it. But please, if you did not read all of Sitarams post, read the piece about the Under tow.

[~Maude~]

I finished Garp last night and really enjoyed it. I was hooked by the first 50 pages and would not of been able to quit it. The book gave me many feelings throughout and I didn't like the main characters sometimes, they angered, saddened or disappointed me in certain parts of the book but I was completely attached to them by the end.

This was my first John Irving book and I will try others by him now.

[Xamonas Chegwe]

I too like Garp. It is not great literature but I would say it's goodish literature. The multiple threads and characters are tied together well and in an intelligent, quirky and uniquely "Irving" way. I've also read "Hotel New Hampshire" and "The Cider House Rules" - both equally recommended.

I wouldn't recommend the film of Garp though, not if you've read the book, it's like watching a plot synopsis at double speed!

[Whifflingpin]

For me, Irving's books vary immensely in readability. "Hotel New Hampshire," "Prayer for Owen Meany" and "Cider House Rules" were up with the greats. "A Son of the Circus" was unreadable. Garp was in worth a read on a wet afternoon, but I didn't think my life would have been poorer if I hadn't read it. "158 pound marriage" somewhat better. I notice that I have a copy of "The Fourth Hand," so I guess that I have read it, but it is totally erased from my memory.