WeReWolves and VamPiREs

[Phoenix_Tears]

This probably one of the stupidest questions ever to be asked, but does anyone believe in werewolves or vampires?

I just wonder, because i have recently been reading things,myths and such, where all sorts of cultures from way before travel and communication, speak of werewolves, or wurwulfs.Vampires too.

I know theres a phychotic illness called lychanthropy in which a person actually believes themselves to be a werewolf. Doctors have been studying this for a long time. In one incident a married woman thought she was a wolf always around the full moon. She went bizerk and started killing people ripping them up with her teeth and fingers. My mother used to work at an alzheimers faculity and she told me that the people were always anxious and sleepless around the full moon. Now i have read many times that the moon has a pull on water and since the human anatomy consists mainly of water and such, it has effect on us, but i have also read widely that this is not true. That it only has those effects on large bodies of water. How then, do they explain such phenomenons as the older people's behavior?

Vampires, on the other hand.. There is a disease i can always recall the name of exept for now, in which a person's body actually craves blood and needs it to function like normal people need water. I saw it on an episode of csi as well as on the discovery channel. Same goes for vampires as werewolves, all these cultures talk of such creatures since the beginnings.When there were no communication systems between the countries. Similar creatures of the night, whom which the sun burns, whom which suck blood out of people, sometimes sleeping, some times people who wander to close.

What do you think?
Sincerely wondering-
Phoen-X

PLEASE NOTE
That in posting this, i am in no way saying that I believe in vampires or werewolves in general. I am skeptical and wondering that is it. Thank You

[Lothwen]

I've read, that people "created" werewolves, vampires and many other monsters, because they wanted to explain evil which was around them. But, in spite of this I belive in ghosts, monsters etc. I think that tehy exist in our world. They live near us and sometimes they may destroy our life. However it is difficult to recognize "unhuman" creature, we sometimes try to avoid, without any reason, some people - they may be, for example, vampires.
Moreover, world with elves, goblins, dragons... is funny and more interesting. :D

[Phoenix_Tears]

I am a skeptic.. i need more thoughts.
-Phoen-X-

*There are no absolute truths exept that there are no absolute truths.



*The teacher looked around the room and stated to the whispering class "There is no right or wrong." and Elijah said "Now is that statement right or wrong?" ((Frank Peretti, The hangman's curse, fave pt. of book))

[Downer]

Don't believe in them as genuine entities,
the condition you're think of is porphyria - it stops you from making Haem, causes the gums to recede ( thus causing 'fangs' ) makes you strongly allergic to garlic and causes blistering and burns on exposure to light - oh, and one of the few things that the digestive system can tolerate in a such a condition in blood - which you'd need to get enough haem to survive.

As for lycanthropy I gather its a rather peculiar form of psychosis but I wonder if the disease came first or the stories - have these people fixed upon something from folklore that they've heard or have they symptoms that the folklore attempts to explain. Many cultures have stories about shapeshifting - in China, foxes; South america, jaguars; if you look at some of the earliest cave paintings they depict shape shifting or half human creatures turning into stags.

I suspect that the wolf thing just happens to be the most common of the stories and therefore the one that most sufferers fixate on. Curiously, henbane often causes hallucinations of shape shifting often into wolves. It would be interesting to do a trial on volunteers in which their mental imagery is 'seeded' before hand with other notions of shapeshifting before consuming the herb. Maybe force them to read Watership Down - or Peter Rabbit?

Downer

[imthefoolonthehill]

ADMIN!!! PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE CAN I BE POLITICAL FOR 1 POST???? I have such a great answer to the "do you believe in Vampires" question..... lol.... *cough Katie Kurich fromthetodayshow cough*

[seed]

I strongly agree to Downer's post. It's easy to be proved that there are no vampires or werewolves in this world. You know, if ur country should have vampires , then in other corners of the world would also have such things. But apparently in my country( i am a chinese) none of us have heard about vampires or werewolves. They don't exist in our culture. So even if people should have the hallucinations that they were thirsting for bloods, they wouldn't imagine that they themselves were vampires. The same story to werewolves.

[Lothwen]

Werewolves and vampires may have different names, different shapes, but they exist. They are hidden in us but sometimes they want to become free, then they show their real form.

[wastinaway]

If you've ever had the pleasure of mild insomnia around the last week of October, you can catch all sorts of interesting shows on the mythological history of European culture. One documented case spoke of a village's entire grain supply being tainted by a fungus that causes hallucinations. Unfortunately, while the villagers were flying high and not realizing it a young girl was killed by a pack of wolves. Add one to the other and their imaginations just exploded, not to mention the reality of lycanthropy. Almost every culture speaks of shape shifters and parasitic demons. I think it would be wise to conclude that these myths spring from our fear of the two-faced person (werewolf) and the person that drains the life out of others (vampire.), more so than concluding that it must be true since every culture has stories. In a way, it's wonderful proof that the only differences between us are the ones we create. Stephen King, yeah, go figure, wrote an excellent essay on the four horror archetypes, and it's well worth checking out. It speaks of the psychological fears represented by the archetypal werewolf, vampire, ghost and I can't remember the last one.

[wastinaway]

Oh yeah, Phoenix, be careful with the absolute truth statement. No matter how many times you add to it, it continues to contradict itself. It there is no right or wrong, then no one can say that Hitler was wrong because he did what was accepted and encouraged by his culture. Make sure that's a statement you really want to live with, otherwise people can shoot up schools, hospitals or you and nobody can complain due to the lack of accountability.

[Phoenix_Tears]

My reply to this

If someone tells me there is no right or wrong, you simply ask that person if that statement was right, or wrong. There IS a right or wrong, there is always a solid answer if you dig deep enough. Imagine a world without laws, right and wrong and morals. Very few would survive. ala "Nightmare academy" the veritas project part 2, by frank peretti touches this very subject. Thanks for the replies

[gatsbysghost]

It isn't uncommon for cultures to share the same myths even though they have had no contact with one another.

Many cultures share similiar versions of the beginning of the world, as well as the end. Since the Gideons don't pre-date written word, I have to agree with wastinaway.

[imthefoolonthehill]

Pheonix: thats a pretty good reply....

and if someone says that there is no absolute right or absolute wrong, you could say, "was part of that statement was false?"

[wastinaway]

Let me clarify my statement concerning absolute truth--I see where my response could be mistaken. I believe that there is absolute truth--an immutable right and wrong. I was simply encouraging Phoenix to be careful with the statement he/she used as a quote because it contradicts itself, and because a world without absolutes would truly be apocolypse.

[Phoenix_Tears]

I am a contradiction. *wink*

[Downer]

The only absolute in life is death, that and taxes,
I think I'm paraphrasing Franklin there
Downer

[Professor Asker]

I myself have been researching up on the causes and effects of lychanthropy. My research has led me to believe that lychanthropy is not heredity or a curse/enchantment. Instead, I find that a person would normally "turn into a werewolf" or display wolf-like attributes when they believe in it the most, as it were. Let me explain. A person who experiences a extreme emotion, lets say trauma, while under high levels of stress therefore find themselves supseptable to the change of the wolf. Furthermore, let's pretend that this person sees or hears a "curse," or something that makes him believe he will change, will force him into the wolf. This person will be so emotionally distraut that they don't even consider how that is possible, they ultimately belive that they are doomed and soon start diplaying issues of anger. It is this belief, that the body will attempt to meet this belief in the best way possible. So, in a larger sense, humans are capable of controling their body, even if they don't realize it. If that is possible, what else is possible? Can we force ourselves to grow scales? Perhaps webbed feet? Why go for mutation? Can we perhaps control our immune system when fighting off attacks of viruses and other diseases? My hope is that I will find a way to achieve total control of the body and even achieve a way into better medical theorys. So, in this i say, changing into a werewolf is in the state of mind, or physologically(sp?). Although having never met one, my conclusions are somewhat, incomplete. If I were to meet one experienceing such conditions, I would be that much closer to unlocking the key. The basic reason I got interested in lychonthropy is to find out wether controling the body is possible or not. I myself have been trying the act of controling my immune system and have not been sick since the 7th grade*knock on wood*. I await your questions, comments, and criticisms.

[mono]

I know theres a phychotic illness called lychanthropy in which a person actually believes themselves to be a werewolf. Doctors have been studying this for a long time. In one incident a married woman thought she was a wolf always around the full moon. She went bizerk and started killing people ripping them up with her teeth and fingers. My mother used to work at an alzheimers faculity and she told me that the people were always anxious and sleepless around the full moon. Now i have read many times that the moon has a pull on water and since the human anatomy consists mainly of water and such, it has effect on us, but i have also read widely that this is not true. That it only has those effects on large bodies of water. How then, do they explain such phenomenons as the older people's behavior?
Though I wonder if you will actually see these replies, Phoenix_Tears, they proving somewhat older than the average thread, I have heard of lychanthropy, yet know only little of it, there existing so many varieties of unique and rare psychiatric 'disorders.'
On a side note, I think it very important to correct you saying that lunar cycles can, to a limit, have an effect on systemic properties of the human body. Though electrolyte compounds and proteins can sometimes exert a stronger pressure than the moon on specific organs, the brain physiology can get slightly altered, as well as some recent proofs of increased pregnant women in term going into labor.

I myself have been researching up on the causes and effects of lychanthropy. My research has led me to believe that lychanthropy is not heredity or a curse/enchantment. Instead, I find that a person would normally "turn into a werewolf" or display wolf-like attributes when they believe in it the most, as it were. Let me explain. A person who experiences a extreme emotion, lets say trauma, while under high levels of stress therefore find themselves supseptable to the change of the wolf. Furthermore, let's pretend that this person sees or hears a "curse," or something that makes him believe he will change, will force him into the wolf. This person will be so emotionally distraut that they don't even consider how that is possible, they ultimately belive that they are doomed and soon start diplaying issues of anger. It is this belief, that the body will attempt to meet this belief in the best way possible. So, in a larger sense, humans are capable of controling their body, even if they don't realize it. If that is possible, what else is possible? Can we force ourselves to grow scales? Perhaps webbed feet? Why go for mutation? Can we perhaps control our immune system when fighting off attacks of viruses and other diseases? My hope is that I will find a way to achieve total control of the body and even achieve a way into better medical theorys. So, in this i say, changing into a werewolf is in the state of mind, or physologically(sp?). Although having never met one, my conclusions are somewhat, incomplete. If I were to meet one experienceing such conditions, I would be that much closer to unlocking the key. The basic reason I got interested in lychonthropy is to find out wether controling the body is possible or not. I myself have been trying the act of controling my immune system and have not been sick since the 7th grade*knock on wood*. I await your questions, comments, and criticisms.
Hello, welcome to the forum.
I cannot agree more that several, several signs and symptoms of not only psychiatric 'disorders' but physiological disorders can get psycho-somatic. With a few exceptions, of course, I believe a certain dimensional approach to psychology exists more thoroughly than a categorical approach, and one can unintentionally, sometimes, exhibit more symptoms of a termed 'disorder' once he/she receives the official 'label,' as if from expectations and possible confirmatory bias of a diagnostic.
Very interesting. Hopefully I will type more when I have more time.

[Professor Asker]

Very wise Mono. I myself have never considered the fact that people labeling someone will cause disorders. This adds a new perspective to my research. Furthermore, I wouldn't mind interviewing someone who thinks their a "werewolf."

[BigDaddy_GFS]

There are medical conditions that induce unnatural hair growth, as well as mental illnesses that would make a person wolf-like in appearance and behavior.
And as for vampiric symptoms, such as pale skin, light sensitivity, and a craving for blood....there are illnesses that will induce those, too.
I don't believe there are actual flesh-and-blood creatures who take human form, then morph into hairy bloodsucking monsters by night.

Legends of such beasts occur in every culture, and even modern-day cults and secret socieites have embraced the legends as alternative lifestyles.

Unless you attach paranormal origins to these creatures, I can't say I believe in them.

[el01ks]

I've been wondering about this recently, and have decided I want to study it as part of my masters (when I can afford to do one). There are so many myths from so many different cultures and religion, it seems incredible that all these people made up the same nightmares - unless it is a generic human idea about the fear of 'the other' - especially something that is like us but different in some horrible way.

Did you know that there was actually a Ministry of Lunacy in England a few hundred years ago? Linked with the idea of madness having something to do with the moon, it basically meant that when someone was declared mad if they didn't have any heirs the government could have all their money... Same caring govt as today then!

[younghistorian1]

I myself have been a skeptic in the subject of supernatural, but im very much used to the talk of supernatural since i live right by Salem, Massachusetts. Most of these posts have it right when they talk about the different conditions. But if these posts dont placate you, you must look to history. There was a famous case in vampirism by the name of Peter Plogojowitz. I got curious and i looked him up, and even though its hard to find a credible source, the story is very interesting. Hope this helps

[Idril]

I myself have been a skeptic in the subject of supernatural, but im very much used to the talk of supernatural since i live right by Salem, Massachusetts.

I know this has nothing to do with the topic of the thread but...I love Salem, younghistorian! I lived in Boston for a bit and we spent a ridiculous amount of time in Salem, that was our favorite destination. We came for the Witch tours and stayed because it was such a beautiful, welcoming place and we were completely obsessed with that fountain at the East India Mall.

And to keep on topic, I really don't have anything to say that hasn't already been said. I don't believe in the existence of Vampires and Werewolves but I certainly acknowledge that there are people out there who truly believe they are Vampires or Werewolves and act as such but that doesn't make them real, just delusional.

And the idea that the moon can influence our behavior or mood, I have no doubt about that. I work in a daycare with infants and toddlers and I tell you, there is no mistaking when there's a full moon because those kids go nuts! They get aggressive, their energy levels become absolutely frenetic and they are much more emotional, they don't sleep as well, their behavior changes in many perceptible ways. I think it's more noticible in children because they wear their hearts out on their sleeves, they haven't learned how to control their emotions and impulses but I'm sure those changes are there in adults as well, they just hide them better or find other ways to explain them.

[peterk]

I doubt very much most ghost, vampire, werewolf stories. The legends can be quite interesting though.

[Boris239]

It's always interesting to read about werewolves and vamprires. Somehow in a lot of movies they are deadly enemies- I have no idea where does that come from.
Salem is a cool town, and from what I heard it's a lot of fun to celebrate Halloween there.
Going back to werewolves, have anybody played Sierra's "Beast Within" from Gabriel Knight series? It's all about werewolves and it's one of my favorites

[Pensive]

I do believe in fairies :D but Vampires or Werevolves? No way! You see that they are a bit too dangerous to have belief in. :p

[Boris239]

What about Professor Lupin, Pensieve?

[Pensive]

What about Professor Lupin, Pensieve?
In the book, it is clearly stated that Professor Lupin does not like being a werewolf. He admits it by himself that he is dangerous. And Harry Potter is fantasy, right? So liking it does not mean that I believe that those characters exist.

Anyway, firstly, I don't think so that werewolves really exist and if some people think that they do, then they should know that werewolves are not allowed in my Neverland. :D ;)

[Shannanigan]

I definitely believe in vampires...or at least some sort of disease or disability that causes the symptoms of vampirism (needing blood, sensitivity to light, etc.)...

Werewolves I would LOVE to fully believe in, every full moon I go out partying (we have full moon parties here) and a part of me always hopes to see one or find some proof of their existence, but alas, no proof has befallen my eyes. I can't bring myself to say that I firmly believe in their existence, but I hope they do, and would love to become one :D

I did think for a short while in high school that I was one...not to an extreme level, but I had friends who also were very much into werewolves and were convinced that they had some sort of special bond with canines and because I had a bond with them, I felt that I had it, too. We always had so much fun around the full moon, getting each other all riled up...Now that I look back, we were just a bunch of dog-lovers trying to bring some excitement into our dull days, lol...

Great, now a bunch of people are going to think that I'm some sci-fi freak...oh well...

[PeterL]

I have an excellent story for the creation of the werewolf myth that I should get a chance to write within the next year. It may be a good story, but I don't know whether they existed in the way that I will suggest.

I believe that Vampires were created as a metaphor. The analogous human type exists, but Vampires in the form that they have gained in fiction don't exist in the real world.

[Professor Asker]

Hey guys,

It's been a while, I know, and I hate to bring up old topics, but I've got some updates on my research that I thought were interesting.

I beleive my research has most unfortunately migrated from lychanthrropy to actually being able to cure sicknessses. (Hey, one thingled to another, alright?)

At first, getting people to simply "believe" that they could control their immune system, worked it's way into attempting to prove that people could "beleive" that they wouldn't get sick. Although I observed some change, not enough to make an impact. If anything, it was a decline in runny noses and sore throats.

So I began going over what else might be the cause of such a good immune system. I went to the library, went over encyclopedias, visist internet sites, but withno avail. Discouraged that this might be the end, I began researching diseases themselves and see if it was simply the desire to not want them that would make the difference. Low and behold, I discovered viruses are the leading causes of sicknes'. I also researched more into enviromental conditions for viruses, when an idea struck me and it all came together.

Since the 7th grade itself, I have taken a hot shower every day to this point now. Which is how I am concluding my research to determine that a hot 20 minute shower every day will help your immune system a lot better. Here are the reasons why.

1) Your body is constantly fighting viruses, which means it comes up with ways to defeat them. The problem is, sometimes its to late when it figures it out and the viruses are overwhelming.

2)Viruses however, cannot survive in hot conditions. This includes your blood, your lungs, your stomach, everything. Therefore, the hot shower destroys several viruses while the white blood cells clean up the rest.

3)The warm water constantly going over you not only heats your body quite high, it also feels pretty nice after a tough day at work.

The warm water running over you affects your body in these ways.
a) Simply the water running over you will warm up your blood. Which may be the most important thing when fighting viruses.
b) I'm sure a lot of you out there drink the water coming out of the shower head from time to time, even if you don't mean too. This water will travel to your stomach, hitting the viruses hiding there very hard.
c) More often than not, especially on a cold day, vapor will emit in a hot shower. The vapor you inhale will head to your lungs, which will take care of any viruses hiding there as well as bacteria.(Note, This does not mean you should inhale hot vapor on a daily basis, as bacteria and mold do like constantly warm and moist places to reproduce themeselves.)


In conclusion, I would like to make these points.
First off, it must be a shower, not a bath, there is a big difference in the amount of heat your body will absorb.

Secondly, The amount of heat you should release is not to the point to where you scald yourelf. It should be set to slightly above comfortable.

Third, this is NOT MEANT TO CURE sickness. This is only an attempt to help or disuade potential viruses. Do not take this as hard cold facts. I am sure there are other factors to consider, but I am saying this plays a big part of it.


Thanks for listening, and although I realize this is completely off topic, I would like to hear some feedback from everyone. Try it for yourself over a month or two and e-mail me your results. Please forgive me if I offend anyone who think I am supporting the "Mystical healing energies of water," which may be more interesting now that I think of it....hmmmm....

[PeterL]

2)Viruses however, cannot survive in hot conditions. This includes your blood, your lungs, your stomach, everything. Therefore, the hot shower destroys several viruses while the white blood cells clean up the rest.


The warm water running over you affects your body in these ways.
a) Simply the water running over you will warm up your blood. Which may be the most important thing when fighting viruses.


I believe that you are mistaken on these points. Viruses flourish a body temperature, although someviruses like slightly cooler temperatures. Some viruses can survive rather high temperatures. The human immune system works best ate a few degrees warmer than normal body temperature (fevers are a disease fighting mechanism), so a hot shower might help the immune system a little, but a bath would do as well..

[Professor Asker]

Right, sorry about that. I forgot, it's been a little busy. Right.:(

Like you said, SOME viruses can survive, at an increased body temperature. Some could even survive extreme temperatures that would otherwise scald a human being.

But the ones that seem the be the most problemetic with human sicknesses(with a few exceptions), cannot. Once agian, this is simply a helpful rememdy, not a cure itself.

Some will survive the sheer heat rush. Which is ok, that leaves your white blood cells to clean up the rest.

I know I have some loose points here, but you will not believe how busy I am.

I will say this: In the research I went for this, I did some experiements.
4 people came down witht he flu. 2 of these people did what I said and took a hot shower for 20 minutes and overcame the flu within, at most 3 days. (Really seemed fine in 2, but we decided to let the immune system clean up.)
The other 2 let the flu runs it's course and overcame it in a week.

In a similar test, the same two people wh oovercame it in 2 days were not sick until a few months later and came down with the common cold (soon cured). The other two were still sick periodically, but not very often at all.

Listen, I seriously got to go, but I will try to answer the other questions and such within a timely manner. Thanks.

[PeterL]

But the ones that seem the be the most problemetic with human sicknesses(with a few exceptions), cannot. Once agian, this is simply a helpful rememdy, not a cure itself.

Some will survive the sheer heat rush. Which is ok, that leaves your white blood cells to clean up the rest.

As I understand it, and I will confess that I have never researched it in detail, most viruses have an ideal temperature of around 95 or 96 degrees. I don't know how wide their operating temperature ranges is.


I will say this: In the research I went for this, I did some experiements.
4 people came down witht he flu. 2 of these people did what I said and took a hot shower for 20 minutes and overcame the flu within, at most 3 days. (Really seemed fine in 2, but we decided to let the immune system clean up.)
The other 2 let the flu runs it's course and overcame it in a week.

In a similar test, the same two people wh oovercame it in 2 days were not sick until a few months later and came down with the common cold (soon cured). The other two were still sick periodically, but not very often at all.


I'll try that some time. I don't get viral diseases often, so I have never noticed the effect that you describe, but I take hot showers, so I may have already had the experience.

[melissa martin]

uh... wht has this realy got to do with vampires and warewolves ='(

[1n50mn14]

Do not believe in 'vampires' and 'werewolves' in the fantasy sense of the word. If somebody could logically and scientifically explain to me a)how these creatures came to exist and b)how they subsist and substain, then I might be swayed. I like the question that was raised earlier, did the diseases resembling these monsters come first, or the monsters?

I am going to have to say the diseases came first, likely in a much earlier time, and, lacking the science to explain the diseases, the victims were labelled as 'monsters' and likely outcast.