Dune

[AbdoRinbo]

I'm 100 pages into it and I can see where it is going . . . it's pretty much an allegory of the crisis in the Gulf. The spice is oil, the Harkonnens are the Russians, &c., &c. . . . am I missing something?

Most of the people I have chatted with have boasted that it is worthy of more acclaim than the Lord of the Rings. I never could get into Tolkien, so of course I think Herbert is the more legitimate writer. The problem with Sci-Fi and Fantasy is that the symbolism, for me, is harder to detect. It was by coincidence I found that the name Gollum was an allusion to Kabbalistic mysticism (Gollum was the unfinished man, created by Adam Kadmon, who--in his protean state--had the equal possibility of either falling or ascending into grace). But, as far as Dune is concerned, it is just a political and quasi-philosophical enquiry. There's gotta be more to it than that . . .

[Admin]

Alot of people have problems with Tolkien, he was a linguist and he really liked to use words. So his books can be hard reads for some people.

I haven't read Dune, but I consider the LOTR trilogy to be right near perfect. The ending is perfect, the drama, the sacrifice, is all gripping.

As far as symbolism. Tolkien wrote these books in the shadow of WWII, with all of it's new and horrible weapons (which represent the ring). He also hated how his home town was becoming industrialized with it's pollution and smokestacks. Which is why you'll see the theme of "green is good -- industry is bad" in parts of his books.

One good essay topic is to compare the ring to nuclear weapons. Would you be strong enough to give up and destroy such an awesome power? Would anyone? If you haven't read them you'll just have to wait for the movies. You won't be disappointed, like I said the ending is perfect.

[AbdoRinbo]

I hope I didn't come off as anti-Tolkien or anything, he certainly is a great writer. One thing I enjoy more than anything else is a good story-teller, and Tolkien was most definitely that; moreover, Tolkien wasn't overly verbose compared to other authors like Joyce and Pynchon. I would compare him more to someone like Herman Melville who--like it or not--went to great pains to describe every crack and corner of his constructed universe. But just because something seems 'real' doesn't necessarily make it interesting. Tolkien has a tendency to digress. Writers like Calvino, for example, can give a you a lucid, supple picture of the world in two sentences.

Herbert, as far as I can tell, just wants to get his story across and spare the reader a lot of details that are often lame and pointless.

[stavrokin]

:rolleyes:

Melville! he is great

i even refer to him as one of the greatest American writor.

i love his Moby-Dick, even today i think it is a modern work, which mean some part of it will go into eternity.

some day i must read his oringinal version ;)

[Lothwen]

Don't You think that it is easier to read books without searching analogy to our world? Of cours there are some books conected with our reality (for example "Animal Farm"), but in my opinion Herbert wrote only a story, which may be similar to some real situations, but doesn't show them.

[imthefoolonthehill]

um... while Frank Herbert probably drew inspiration from real world events and principles, I don't think that Dune is supposed to be one giant symbolism of it all.... It might explain the first book, but I don't think that it fits the other books.

[Zieveraar]

:D

I found that searching for analogies is not that easy in Dune or the following books.

What I did find in all the books is how Herbert always refers to religion and the effects of it on people (Fremen always remind me of Arabs for some reason, must be the terminology: jihad!)

He strongly uses religion and politics in his first four books, but that can not be said of the four last books, they read as mere action stories and lack the 'depth' of the first four!

I liked the prelude to Dune, written by his son Brian and Kevin J. Anderson, but do not care much for the Butlerian Jihad.

[imthefoolonthehill]

In all actuallity... the tlxileu (sp) the guys who create people in tanks... remind me more of the primarily muslim arabs by the way they treat their women... but we won't go into that