What’cha Reading?

[Danik 2016]

Yes, maybe this is one of his most compact novels. I'm glad that you liked it. It also has less characters and subplots than is usual in his stories. All the characters are somehow connected to the main story.
I agree with you, Madame Defarge is unforgettable. Another interesting character is the "ressurection man". I learned inthis novel about this sinister way doctors used to get corpses for medical experiments.
Sidney Carton is an unusual kind of hero, in his lack of self-esteem in contrast with his perspicacy.
And there is the faithful bank clerk ( Mr Lorry?).

[Sancho]

The resurrection man, Jerry Cruncher, is the kind of character Dickens is good at creating. Cruncher strikes me as the sort of guy who it’d be good to have on your side in a bar fight. I agree, Danik, that was an interesting detail about 18th century physicians employing grave robbers to supply them with cadavers for medical research. Hey, ya gotta do what ya gotta do, eh? And of course it became a major plot point when Cruncher and his cohorts went to extract Roger Cly, but found his coffin filled with sand and stones instead of Roger.

For my money, Sydney Carton is probably the most developed character in the book. He had the ability to surprise me with his actions. Many of the characters were simply representations of an idea. They would stand in for the excesses of of the French aristocracy, or the excessive backlash of the revolutionaries, but Carton was unique. His soliloquy at end of the novel is almost as well-known as the long sentence at the beginning of the novel:


I see a beautiful city and a brilliant people rising from this abyss, and, in their struggles to be truly free, in their triumphs and defeats, through long years to come, I see the evil of this time and of the previous time of which this is the natural birth, gradually making expiation for itself and wearing out.
…

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known.

The unnamed seamstress, who went right before Sydney Carton, was one of those characters who stood in for an idea. She is the innocent victim. She is the sort of collateral damage that inevitably occurs when mob violence reins. But boy-howdy is she ever a powerful character. I damn near lost it reading about her.

[Danik 2016]

I totally forgot about Roger Cly.l faintly remember now that you have mentioned it, that the absence of his cadaver is of importance not only for
Cruncher, but also for the main plot.

I agree with you about Carton. Ì love this contradictory character. He reminds me of a Dostoievsky character:great sensibility allied to cinicism,,a noble soul that is given to debauchery. The marriage with Lucie probably wouldn't work. She would hardly understand him and it might bring out his worst side.

The revolution scenes seem also very good to me. I think Dickens read a book about the French revolution that was popular in his time.

[bounty]

dickens is one of my favorite authors but its been a long time since ive read this one so I don't remember much, but I do recollect how intense and captivating the ending was and of course the famous beginning and bit of carton's soliloquy.

im nearing the end of the golden compass. it started out "meh" but has improved as its gone along to the point of being really enjoyable. I had originally thought the book wasn't good enough for me to watch the movie, but ive since changed my mind.

the highlight of the book for me are things called "daemons" which are creatures who are inextricably and intimately tied to their humans (and witches too). the sentient and talking bear, iorek brynison is interesting too.

this is a nifty gem from last nights reading:

"we are all subject to the fates, but we must all act as if we are not, or die of despair."

[Sancho]

Bounty, that sounds like the struggle betwixt Free Will and Determinism:
D — All that has ever been or will ever be has already been determined. There is no free will and there is no escaping fate.
FW — Yeah whatever, man.

Danik, I’m not sure what Dickens read that gave him his understanding of the French Revolution, but I’m sure he absorbed a lot of his understanding of it just by living in his time and place.

I agree with both yous. The last few chapters are intense. The action rises to a crescendo, then abruptly stops: There’s the escape from Paris, where former special forces soldier and current federal prisoner, Snake Plissken, is given just 24 hours to get in and out of the city and rescue the President of the United States …wait…uhh…maybe that’s another city. Anyway the main characters do flee Paris. Madam DeFarge is in hot pursuit, but her evil intentions are thwarted only after a cage match between her and Miss Pross. (That part is true)

And all kidding aside, the last chapter is masterful. It describes the clamor and turmoil of Paris as the prisoners are being drawn through the streets in an open cart on their way to meet Saint Guillotine. We see Sidney Carton comforting the unnamed seamstress, who is a hapless victim of the reign of terror. The narrative then becomes quiet and introspective as it turns to the thoughts of Sydney Carton. He has not just accepted his fate, but is welcoming it, considering it his redemption. He manages to transcend the present and see into to the future. He imagines the future of the family he saved, and he is optimistic about the people of the city itself. I quoted some of it above. Here’s the full version of his thoughts as he stands before the guillotine:


I see Barsad, and Cly, Defarge, The Vengeance, the Juryman, the Judge, long ranks of the new oppressors who have risen on the destruction of the old, perishing by this retributive instrument, before it shall cease out of its present use.

I see a beautiful city and a brilliant people rising from this abyss, and, in their struggles to be truly free, in their triumphs and defeats, through long years to come, I see the evil of this time and of the previous time of which this is the natural birth, gradually making expiation for itself and wearing out.

I see the lives for which I lay down my life, peaceful, useful, prosperous and happy, in that England which I shall see no more. I see Her with a child upon her bosom, who bears my name. I see her father, aged and bent, but otherwise restored, and faithful to all men in his healing office, and at peace. I see the good old man, so long their friend, in ten years’ time enriching them with all he has, and passing tranquilly to his reward.

I see that I hold a sanctuary in their hearts, and in the hearts of their descendants, generations hence. I see her, an old woman, weeping for me on the anniversary of this day. I see her and her husband, their course done, lying side by side in their last earthly bed, and I know that each was not more honoured and held sacred in the other’s soul, than I was in the souls of both.

I see that child who lay upon her bosom and who bore my name, a man winning his way up in that path of life which once was mine. I see him winning it so well, that my name is made illustrious there by the light of his. I see the blots I threw upon it, faded away. I see him, fore-most of just judges and honoured men, bringing a boy of my name, with a forehead that I know and golden hair, to this place—then fair to look upon, with not a trace of this day’s disfigurement—and I hear him tell the child my story, with a tender and a faltering voice.

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known.

[Danik 2016]

Oh, Sancho!I used to be so moved by this idealistic end. But today my more cynical and realistic self whispers:" Things don't happen that way"!

[Sancho]

Ah, yes, the sweet little lies we tell ourselves while we are standing at the edge of the abyss, waiting for the blade to fall. I read it that way too, Danik. Carton seems to be deluding himself with the idea that this one selfless act will somehow right a lifetime of wrongs, and grant him redemption. It’s not a new idea. It's an egotistical way of thinking that borders on arrogance, which fits with Carton's personality. But I don’t want to be too cynical about it, being over-cynical makes it depressing.

Speaking of cynicism, what did you think of Charles Darnay? He wasn’t a terribly well-developed character. He's a bit flat and I found him somewhat annoying. I mean he really needed to stop letting himself get tossed into jail and sentenced to death. Maybe because we were chatting on another thread about Streetcar Named Desire, I saw a little Blanche Dubois in him:

**whilst in a swoon** "Ah have awe-ways ruh-lied upon tha kindnuss uv strain-juhs" (l have always relied upon kindness of strangers.)

[Danik 2016]

I agree with you about Charles Darnay. He is th3 typical moral hero and Lucie is th3 feminine version. The interesting thing for this Victorian novel, is that Dickens sympathy clearly is with the debauched Carton, a much more interesting character. As for his continually getting into a fix, this seems to be mainly because he is an aristocrat and there seems no much he can do about it. In the case of Blanche, she has a complicated personal story, the play suggests involvement with young students.

[Sancho]

As for authorial intent, I thought Dickens gave both sides equal doses of outrage. I could see that he abhorred the mob violence that ensued after the revolution as much as he despised the excesses of the aristocracy. To borrow a phrase from a news outfit who is anything but, Dickens seemed to be Fair and Balanced.

Ah well anyway, since this one I’ve burned through a couple of pot-boilers: Michael Connelly’s The Last Coyote and Harlen Coben’s Fade Away. Currently reading C. J. Box’s Trophy Hunt.

Oh yeah, Blanche had some secrets. By contrast, you always knew where Stanley stood.

[hellsapoppin]

duplicate post [sorry]

[hellsapoppin]

https://d28hgpri8am2if.cloudfront.net/book_images/cvr9780684824390_9780684824390_lg.jpg



The Bible According to Mark Twain
By Joseph B. Mccullough
Edited by Howard G. Baetzhold


An indispensable and provocative compilation of witty essays dealing with Biblical stories and their inconsistencies from America’s master satirist, Mark Twain.

The Bible According to Mark Twain is a selection of essays spanning forty years of his writing career, which touch on and satirize stories and figures from the Bible. In his characteristic style, Twain illustrates the inherent comedy and inconsistencies found within Holy Scripture, simultaneously entertaining and provoking questions about man’s place in the world and his relationship with God. An important installment in the Twain canon, this book is perfect for fans of America’s master satirist.


Reminds me of Freud's Future of An Illusion in which he railed against Christianity's utter inconsistencies with reality:

‘The Future of an Illusion’ I was much less concerned with the most profound sources of religious sentiment than with what the common man understands by his religion, the system of teachings and promises that on the one hand explains to him, with enviable thoroughness, the riddles of this world, and on the other assures him that a careful providence will watch over his life and compensate him in a future existence for any privations he suffers in this. The common man cannot imagine this providence otherwise than as an immensely exalted father. Only such a being can know the needs of the children of men, be softened by their pleas and propitiated by signs of their remorse. All this is so patently infantile, so remote from reality, that it pains a philanthropic temperament to think that the great majority of mortals will never be able to rise above such a view of life. It is still more embarrassing to learn how many of those living today, who cannot help seeing that this religion is untenable, nevertheless seek to defend it, bit by bit, in pathetic rearguard actions."


While I agree with his view I say live and let live and to each their own. If people find solace or fulfillment in such mythologizing, then so be it. My only objection being when people use this mythologizing as an excuse to make war or to impose tyranny in the name of their mysticism. That is something everyone should object to.

[Sancho]

Welp, during the past month or so I burned through a pile of page-turners. Then my kindle feed informed me — Yo, Sancho, you might like this book:

The God of the Woods, by Liz Moore.

And sure enough, I did.

The action mostly happens in the Adirondacks on a private nature reserve that doubles as a summer camp. You know the Adirondacks — those mountains in upstate New York that were made famous by the chairs. Anyway the land is owned by a snooty, old-money family. The camp is run by an old New York family as well, but they have no money and come from a line of woodsmen. The book is full of comparisons like this. Rich and poor. Haves and have-nots. City people and country folk. Privileged and destitute. Entitled and disenfranchised. Bankers and waitresses. Ivy League grads and High School dropouts.

On page one we find out one of the kids from the camp is missing. It turns out she is the younger sister of a kid who went missing 14 years earlier. Coincidence? Sancho thinks NOT.

I liked the way the tale unfolds. The pacing is splendid, and the storyline weave kept me turning the pages until the wee hours. The timeline jumps around from a half dozen or so key periods from the 1950s through the 1970s. Each section is told from the perspective of one of the characters and the writer is good enough highlight the time period in the section headers. Even with that help I found myself confusing some of the characters, events, and the time when stuff happened. There were so many parallels between the generations that this was easy to do. I’ve got no beef here. It kept me on my toes.

There was another comparison that threaded its way through the story, and it made me think we might just be better off in a matriarchal society than a patriarchal one. Ah well, thoughts?

This is a rich novel. It’s part who-done-it and part literary fiction. I put Ms Moore on my “writers to follow” list.

At any rate I’m thinking of diving into classic next. Anyone? Ideas?

[bounty]

if I hadn't just started a relatively long western id invite myself to join in on whatever you pick. maybe I still could.

as I was walking past my books to end up with the western, sister carrie was appearing prominently on the shelves and caught my eye, but that was mainly due to where it was sitting; still I wonder.

what comes to mind are some of the more adventure works---the deerslayer, the pathfinder, last of the mohicans, treasure island, the black arrow, kidnapped, three musketeers, man in the iron mask, the scarlet pimpernel, the prisoner of zenda or something interesting like the hunchback of notre dame, or the phantom of the opera, or maybe even a Connecticut yankee in king arthurs court or tarzan of the apes.

anything leap off the pages at you?

ps: tarzan got me thinking of the john carter books by burroughs. have you read any of those? I don't know if they make the "classics" category but they have at least stood some test of time.

[Sancho]

I’d read any of those. Here’s a few I’ve been considering: The Martian Chronicles, All The King’s Men, Under The Volcano, Zorba The Greek, On The Beach, Lonesome Dove, Big Rock Candy Mountain.

[Danik 2016]

From these I read "Under the Volcano",Sancho. Read it many years ago. Only remember that I enjoyed it and that there in fact was a volcano in the story.

Loved the film "Zorba the Greek" with Anthony Queen as Zorba:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS0w3Wkric8&t=75s

[Sancho]

…Only remember that I enjoyed it and that there in fact was a volcano in the story…

Haha. With a review like that, how can I go wrong? Under The Volcano it is. I’ll save the others for later.

[bounty]

if you make zorba or lonesome dove your next pick, lemme know and I might be able to join in.

[Sancho]

Oh yeah, I’d be happy to read either of those two next, or for that matter any of the titles you mentioned previously. I was planning to take my time and enjoy Under the Volcano, but my plans may change.

You see, I’m about 3 chapters into it and I haven’t found any coherence yet, just a lot of disconnected information. My thoughts so far can be nicely summed up by something a friend (maybe you know him) once said — Moby Dick Sucks! Anyway Chapter III is almost readable, but just barely. After suffering through the modernist BS of the first 2 chapters, the third one is okay. Though I didn’t truly enjoy it, so maybe it’s more akin to the Stockholm Syndrome. You know, after being held hostage in a bank for a few days during a robbery you start thinking, Hey! These bank-robber dudes ain’t so bad. They’re starting to sorta make sense… But — Holy Guacamole! — what have I gotten myself into? I’m going to need a reading guide to finish Under the Volcano. Malcolm Lowry has already obliquely referenced just about everything in the western literary canon from Plato to Conrad.

The story takes place in the high plains of Mexico between the Sierra Madre Occidentals and the Sierra Madre Orientals (the eastern and western mama mountains). So, for us ‘mercans, it’s like the inter-mountain west region between the Rockies and The Sierra Nevadas. Honestly, I think it’s all one big ole mountain range from the Andes down in South America to the Brooks Range up in Alaska. But I digress, and in a way that means I’m sorta getting with the modernist program. This book digresses frequently, meanders all over the place, and never meets a rabbit hole it doesn’t like to dive down. Ah well.

At any rate, as far as I can figure, it’s a story about a borracho written by a borracho. What is it about mid-20th century writers that made them drink so much? And here I go again, this time down a Mexican jackrabbit hole — one thing I like about the Langwich Spanguage is the two forms of of the verb “to be” they have: ser and estar, which is sometimes described (inadequately) as the temporary and the permanent form of the verb. So if somebody esta borracho, it means he’s drunk. But if somebody es borracho it means he’s a drunk. The first guy will be sober in the morning, but the second guy will still be a drunk the next morning and probably until the day he dies. Anyway the main character, Geoffrey Firmin, es borracho. The writer, Malcolm Lowry, era un borracho. (Era is the past tense of es — he ded) In addition to Geoff, I’ve so far met Monsieur Jacques Laruelle, a childhood friend of Geoff; Doctor Vigil, the local sawbones; Geoff’s estranged wife, Yvonne; and his younger half-brother, Hugh.

The whole book more or less takes place over the course of one day, which happens to be The Day of the Dead holiday in Mexico. Hmmm. That made me think of another difficult text in the modernist tradition, also from a mid-20th century writer who was un borracho, and this book also took place over the course of one day: Ulysses, by James Joyce.

In fact in Chapter I of Volcano, Monsieur Laruelle wanders drunkenly through town and we get his thoughts as a stream-of consciousness. It reminded me of Stephen Dedalus, on Sandymount Strand in Ulysses, except Laruelle is about 3 sheets to the wind while Stephen was stone-cold sober. (As I remember it) At any rate the scene felt like I’d been cornered by Monsieur Laruelle in the Cerveceria and forced listen to his semi-coherent, drunken rant. I mean, I felt like I could smell his breath.

Here I go again, jackrabbit hole numero tres — had I known this book was about an alcoholic written by an alcoholic, I’d’ve probably skipped it. I’ve got too many Irish uncles and I’ve been stuck listening to their drunken screes too many times. They are generally charming drunks, but still. Here’s a typical interaction at a family gathering:

Sancho’s Uncle — Yo, Shaanchoo. C’mere.
Sancho (looking for the exit) — What’cha want, Uncle Ted?
Unc’ — Har-har. Did I tell ya about my Doctor appose-mo, er, appoints-mer, uh, my trip to the doctor ?
S (failing to find an easy exit) — Nope.
Unc’ — Har-har. The Doc said, he said, “Ted, I don’t know when your last drink was, but it needs to be your last drink.”
S — What’d’ya say to him Uncle Ted?
Unc’ — I says to him, I says, “Doc! I’m Irish!” Har-har.
S — What’d he say to that, Uncle Ted?
Unc’ (shaking a ciggy out of the pack) — He asst me if I smoke too.
S — And what’d’ya say to that, Uncle Ted?
Unc’ — I forget. Hey! You got a light?
S — Sorry.
(And so Sancho’s uncle wanders off to find a lighter and hassle a niece)

So, if that was the sort of aura Lowry was trying to create in Chapter I — Nailed it!

[Danik 2016]

Haha! Sancho, I only don't regret having recommended that book because the reading produced such an inspired post!

[Sancho]

Ha! Thanks Danik.

I had fun going on a modernist rant. I'm not sure Lowry had all that much fun writing this book though. He seems tortured. I usually try to read things without delving too deeply into the writer's background and I almost never try to suss out authorial intent, but Volcano, I think, is highly autobiographical. Malcolm Lowry has laid bare his soul in this novel. I just didn't really want to see it. TMI, Bro, TMI.

[Sancho]

Okay, I laughed at this part. An objectively inebriated Geoffrey Firmin, referred to here as the consul, is walking down Nicaragua Street, contemplating life when:


But suddenly the Calle Nicaragua rose up to meet him. The Consul lay face downward on the deserted street.

It reminded me of a T-shirt I saw a guy wearing once:


I don’t have a drinking problem
I drink
Get drunk
Fall down
No problem

Anyway, Geoff just lays there in the street for a while, continuing to think about Yvonne, Hugh, and life in general until a motorist happens by and asks him if he’s OK. A short conversation ensues that culminates with the motorist offering Geoff a drink from a bottle of Irish whiskey:


“I always keep a bottle of something in the car for an emergency .*.*. No. Not Scotch. Irish. Burke’s Irish. Have a nip? But perhaps you’d—”

“Ah .*.*.” The Consul was taking a long draught. “Thanks a million.”

I don’t hold out much hope for Geoffrey ever getting sober.

[Danik 2016]

Neither do I. But I am astonished how I forgot that whole story .I just very vaguely remember the name Yvonne.
Just finished an Australian novel, Carpentaria by Alexis Wright. A superb novel about Australian Aboriginal people that live in a sort of shanty town at the edges of a fictional town called Desperance in the (real) gulf of Carpentaria. The people living in the shanty town are in permanent contact with the spirits of the dead and of nature.
It would therefore fit nicely into our thread of nature writing, except that I don't know, where it is.
Some quotes:
Normal Phantom,the protagonist, is in his boat on the sea:
"The sea now a divine limbo under a membrane of whiteness, undecided how to create a new day"
In another moment:
And when the sea was mad, dead man's spirits got caught up in these phantom places


Will connects the phantoms to a 'dead man's spirit'. As such, there is a clear link between the spirits in the text and the afterlife, and to describe this belief system as magical is subjugating Will and Normal's spirituality

"And when the sea was mad, dead man's spirits got caught up in these phantom places"
The next quote sums up part of the story, just part of it because there is also the implacable war of the white Uptown people against the black
fellas of the Prickl

[Sancho]

Danik, you’ve got a keen interest indigenous people, eh?

I don’t know if I’m going to finish the Volcano book. Usually I look forward to the end of day when I can sit and read for a while. Lately I’ve been dreading it.

[Danik 2016]

Sorry for recommending that book. But I told you that I didn't remember the story. Maybe it's better you turn to something else.

[Sancho]

Awe shucks. No worries Danik. In fact, as they say — nothing ventured, nothing gained. And there’s still time to find something to like in this book. For instance:


…The Consul, an inconceivable anguish of horripilating hangover thunderclapping about his skull, and accompanied by a protective screen of demons gnattering in his ears…

There’s a word I don’t think I’ve heard before: horripilate. I had to look it up. It’s when you’re cold or scared and you get chicken skin, or goose pimples. I’m thinking it’s a reaction our bodies get because way back when we were covered with hair. The skin puckers up and all the hairs stand endwise so as to make us look bigger or to give us more insulation. My dog horripilated at the park the other day when she saw another dog, who also had a horripilation event.

[Danik 2016]

Lol! In Portuguese we have the adjective "horripilante" which possibly exists also in Spanish and the author maybe knew it.

[Sancho]

That makes sense. It sounds like a latinate word. More than half of modern English words have a Latin root and most of those words came into the language by way of the Norman Conquest in 1066 — so, French, Norseman style.

So far in the Volcano book (half way through) Yvonne hasn’t played much of role. She’s mostly been a reflection of Geoffrey’s desire to put his life back together. With any luck she’ll be more developed as a character later.

[Sancho]

Woo-hoo. Done with Volcano! By the end I think I was blindly flipping pages while doing a reading-rate to pages-remaining calculation — Jaysus! Hour and a half to go. Please make it stop! Anyway I’m not saying it wasn’t a great book. I’m just saying it wasn’t a great book for me. It was like watching a Fellini film after watching a string of good old Hollywood action/adventure movies.

Presently reading Devil Makes Three, by Ben Fountain

It’s historical fiction set just after the (first) ousting of Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide in 1991.

I enjoyed Fountain’s first novel, Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk, so I’ve got high hopes for this one.

[bounty]

i just finished a semi-long slog through a ralph Compton western called the bandera trail. a little epic story that would probably make a good tv mini-series.

I thought the book I started last night was worth mentioning because of its world (or universe as it were) building characteristics.

in star trek: deep space nine the writers introduced a quasi federation entity called "section 31." its a collection of people who act for the betterment of the federation but who arent formally recognized by them. so as you might imagine, they employ questionable and controversial methods that the federation doesn't condone and which they disavow.

after the ds9 episode(s) star trek authors created a book series under the section 31 heading. more or less, the next generation and voyager took place contemporaneously with deep space nine but star trek: the original series took place a longish generation prior. the section 31 authors retrofitted section 31 back to the times of the original series.

the book I started last night is the section 31 entry for the next generation, which is neat enough on its own, but what makes it extra special is that the book picks up the story from the ending of the movie star trek: first contact.

the trailers not bad, but I don't think it gives a good view of the story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEz4Guub9_U

I might have mentioned this elsewhere here, or even posted it, its picard's knowledge of moby dick that proves to be the movies turning point that saves the day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeGMHbK4NlA

to make it even more fun, Patrick stewart (picard) had played Ahab in a moby dick production.

and to make even more fun than that:

https://gizmodo.com/nycc-2024-star-trek-section-31-trailer-michelle-yeoh-2000512765

[Sancho]

MOBY! Well, shiver me timbers.

Ahab cuts a wide swath in this world, and evidently in other worlds too. I could read Moby Dick again and again. I was totally absorbed by it on my last reading. Melville stuck the landing. Lowry by contrast (Under The Volcano) bounced. IMHO.

I’m not sure I can picture Patrick Stewart as Ahab. He seems a little too refined in his mannerisms. Ahab was a rough-around-edges type.

I’m thinking I may have to go with a SciFi novel for my next read. I’ve got a copy of Ministry of the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson around here somewhere.

Yo-Ho-Ho.

[bounty]

theres an extremely good chance im not going to be reading them soon, but im wondering if I even want to hang onto them. im starting to run out of space. I just scavenged the first 9 books in l ron hubbards mission earth series. has anyone read them?

ive also got books 1, 2, 4, 5 and 6 in asimovs robot city series. theyre a fraction of the size of the books above, but its a bummer to be missing book 3, so I wonder about passing those along to someone else too.

[Sancho]

I can’t say I’ve ever read anything by L. Ron, not even my copy of Dianetics, which was given to me on Miami Beach years ago by one of his flunkeys.

Anyway, after The Devil Makes Three, I burned through a couple of detective novels rather than going with the sci-fi genre. The devil book was good, and packed with Haitian history. It mostly avoided the pitfalls associated with historical fiction. Maybe I’ll get to science fiction next, after I see what Harry Bosch, Dave Robicheaux, Myron Bolitar, and Joe Picket have been up to.

[tailor STATELY]

I read the Mission Earth series as they came out. Ron went a bit far of field sociologically for me, perhaps ahead of his time... there are passages I really didn't care for (erotic bits). I really enjoyed Battlefield Earth prior to the decalogy and still have one of the million or so first editions (lol) which I reread on occasion... I think I'll dust it off for Thanksgiving :) That said, don't bother with the movie with John T. starring - it is the worst book to movie I've ever seen.

Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
tailor

[bounty]

I appreciate you guys weighing in, thank you. I ended up keeping both of the series and sometime soon when im up for braving the cold in my garage, i'll try to squeeze them into the limited shelf space.

I have battlefield earth too tailor, I might be more likely to give that one a shot than the series. I do vaguely remember the movie being heavily criticized now that you mention it, but thank you nevertheless for the heads-up.

im on the back half of a louis l'amour, jubal sackett and enjoying that.

[Sancho]

Just finished Playground by Richard Powers. I read his Pulitzer Prize winning The Overstory a couple of years ago and absolutely loved it. It’s pretty reductive to say Overstory is about the forest and Playground is about the ocean, but there it is. At any rate these two books are a must for anybody concerned about our planet. Speaking of which, he comments that an alien looking at our planet from afar would probably have named it “Ocean” rather than “Earth.”

I’m thinking of reading The Brothers Karamazov next. Well, after I finish Angels Flight, which I am reading now. I’m pretty sure Detective Harry Bosch will solve this (double) murder within the next couple of hundred pages. Ah well.

[spikepipsqueak]

I came back into this thread in the middle of the tale of 2 Cities discussion. Love that book!

Came here because I've been thinking about you, Bounty, over the last few days

I just, coincidentally (set in the lead up to the French Revolution), read Scaramouche, and Captain Blood.

Both have the misunderstanding/misinterpretation situation that I think I saw in GWTW and you didn't think was the case. I still haven't been back to read it to check my impression.

Lovely to see you all.

[Danik 2016]

Welcome back, Spike! I love A Tale of Two Cities too. For a long time it has been my favorite Dickens novel.
Though directed to Bounty, I became interested in your question. Problem is this discussion must be much way back. Do you still remember the exact question?

Merry Christmas!

[bounty]

hiya spike---I have Scaramouche and would have been happy to have joined in. youre very welcome to let me know what you'll be reading next and if you'd like a long distance partner...

[Sancho]

Spike! Good to hear from you.

I don’t have a copy of Scaramouche and haven’t read it, but now my interest is piqued. Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you do the Fandango?


A Tale of Two Cities was one of the stand-out reads for me this year. It surprised me because I’ve struggled to get through Dickens before, but this one landed. A few other 2024 stand-outs that jump to mind from my adventures in reading were: James by Percival Everett, Twilight Zone by Andrew X. Pham, and The Moor’s Account by Laila Lalami.

Currently reading The Brothers Karamazov and I’m taking my time, but I took a break from it to read In Plain Sight by C. J. Box. It’s one of his Joe Pickett novels. Joe is a game warden in the state of Wyoming, sort of the outback of the U. S. of A. It starts like this:


When ranch owner Opal Scarlett vanished, no one mourned except her three grown sons, Arlen, Hank, and Wyatt, who expressed their loss by getting into a fight with shovels.

Now there’s a great first sentence for ya.

Also it seems I’ve traded Mitya, Vanya, and Alyosha for Arlen, Hank, and Wyatt.

[bounty]

brothers...was the first biggie I tackled many years ago when I decided I wanted to be "well read." I remember struggling a bit with it and complaining to a friend who ran the nearby university library, saying, hey, nothings happening in this gosh darn book. he said its because its "character driven" and not "plot driven." that might have helped a little bit. I don't remember if I ended up liking it or not, but im glad to have read it, if at the very least for when I talk with Russian girls I can impress them with "ive read Dostoevsky!"

I recently flew through three westerns in a row, don't think ive ever done that before. I could have easily gone with a 4th but I ended up grabbing a Michael Connelly instead. Sancho, was it city of bones you read not too long ago?

ive been mulling this over and its something that could easily turn into a ten page paper that i'll never write---I watch tv and movies while I ride my bike. among other things, ive been watching house md and elementary. its hard to figure out which I like better and one of the questions that arises in the choice is which attribute do I find more appealing, mercy or justice (in so much as those attributes are embodied in the shows).

then I started thinking about how popular hospital/doctor shows AND cop/crime shows are on tv. then I started wondering if there is a gender difference in who watches what---the potential hypothesis being women would like the hospital ones more while men would like the cop ones more.

there are some really fun and interesting considerations that can expand into cinema and real life when it comes to gender roles and "strong female characters" as well as women in combat sports, or actual combat.

as a perculiar offshoot of that---there seems to be tons of cop/crime thrillers in the literary world, but hardly any ever hospital/doctor ones. the only author I can think of for the latter is robin cook.

[Sancho]

Yeah, I’ve been taking my time with The Brothers Karamazov, and I’ve gotta say, I’ve been enjoying the ride. I’m sure it’s been studied and written about, but there’s something about Dostoyevsky that totally embraces the reader. I’m reading the Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky translation.

Also I’ve been reading C.J. Box’s Joe Pickett series. Great fun. The last one, Free Fire, was set in Yellowstone National Park, so as a bonus to getting a real page-turner, you get a lot of background about the Park and the natural world. Speaking of the natural world, in this book and the last one, In Plain Sight, there’s a meteorological event that sort of matches the action. A snow storm in this one and a flood in the last one. Nice touch.

I haven’t read City of Bones, but I have been reading the Detective Bosch series more or less in order. Looks like City of Bones comes up in the rotation after my next Bosch book.

Sounds like a good premiss for a paper. I’d be interested in your conclusions. Mercy and Justice, it seems, go hand in hand. So do Fear and Loathing, but in a negative way.

I’ve never seen a single episode of Elementary, but I did manage to screw up one of their shots when they filming on location in Manhattan once. It must’ve 2017 or 18 and I was staying at The Roosevelt Hotel in Mid-town. I went down to catch the van to work and there they were, filming, so I stood there and watched while I waited for the van to show up. They had Lucy Liu and Jon Michael Hill lined up to be filmed going out the doors of the hotel. I’m standing off to the side. Somebody said, indicating me, “hey, is that guy in the way?” Somebody else said, “Nah, he’s out of the picture.” And they rolled, which was when I cleverly decided to get out of the way. Of course that put me in the way, so somebody yelled, “Cut, cut, that guy got in the picture!” That was when Lucy Liu gave me a go-to-hell stare down, probably because she was going to have to do it again. I said to her, “I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I was trying to get out of the way. Ah well. She’s even prettier in real life than she is on screen. Jon Michael Hill was cool about it.

[bounty]

when I used to get books from the library for my mother, I think cj box was a part of the mix, recommended to me by one of the staff.

I wont spoil city of bones for you but I can at least the ending had an interesting surprise twist that leaves you thinking, "okay, now what then?"

that's a great story about elementary. I wonder if maybe lucy liu just has a resting b***h face?

im reading and nearing the end of an old tom swift story. this one is from the 50s but apparently they go back over a hundred years.

an awful lot of life is caught up in the tension between mercy and justice and given that so much of life is "gendered" so to speak, it would make sense that those attributes might be also.

just sorta off the cuff I tried to find some nielsen ratings demographic information and it doesn't really seem to be readily findable. what I noticed as an offshoot of that however is that consumers of "true crime" stories are overwhelmingly female. the little blurbs I saw suggested that was because women are more empathetic. I suggest an alternative explanation that likely wouldn't be widely popular in certain circles is also that women like "bad boys."

part of the equation for me---the connection of which is not evident in what little ive written in this posts, has to do with an interest ive had for ~30 yrs. initially it was formed when girls started wrestling, and its expanded recently into a lot of tv and movie shows with female warrior types.

one of the things that's brought some of this more to the forefront are some YouTube shorts ive recently seen. here are a couple of good examples:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kDMzlfcHIPY?feature=share

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8rUQD9XtMC4?feature=share

(that one has a really noteworthy exception to it)

[Sancho]

Women Warriors! Sounds like a Roller Derby team, which I’d rather watch than the NFL.

As for what gets produced for television, I remember an episode of The Rockford Files where Jim was trying to interview an old guy who was part of his case. The guy was stonewalling him and said he hated private investigators. When Jim asked him why, the guy said it was because detective shows on TV had replaced his favorite westerns.

Speaking of detective shows, City Of Bones was one of the novels covered in season 1 of Amazon’s series about Bosch. I thought they did a nice job. Also covered in the Amazon series was the book that preceded City Of Bones — A Darkness More Than Night. That’s the book I just finished. I thought it was Connelly's best so far.

It starts with Detective Harry Bosch as somewhat of a secondary character. He's a witness for the prosecution in a murder trail. Initially the main character is a retired FBI profiler who has been asked to help out the Sheriff's department in an "unrelated" murder case. He has identified Bosch as the prime suspect. ***needle scratch*** Whaaa?! At any rate, lotsa courtroom stuff, lotsa police procedural stuff, and a few philosophical questions about what's legal, what's just, and where’s the line between the two. Come to think of it, there’s also a fair amount of art history and jazz appreciation in this one.

And a bonus, here’s a baseball metaphor from Darkness. Harry had just been on the stand testifying for the prosecution and he's to be cross-examined the nest day by the defense attorney, John Reason. Somebody asked him how it went. Harry replied:


So far so good. But we’re playing softball right now—direct. Tomorrow the ball goes to John Reason and he throws it back inside and fast.

Here’s an aviation metaphor from the same trial. This one is about another witness for the prosecution. She does well under direct, but is flailing during the cross. Bosch is commenting on her tone with the defense attorney, and sensing that the lawyer is about to pull out the stops and go at her hard.


There was a measure of defiance in her voice. But in a way it seemed pitiful to Bosch. It was like yelling “F**k You” into a jet engine. He sensed that she was about to be thrown into that jet engine and torn apart.

El Sancho likes airplane metaphors.

Oh alright, one more from Darkness and I'll quit. I'm only posting this quote because, well, Lucy Liu did shoot El Sancho a go-to-hell look years ago. Here's the setup. The man on trial for murder is David Storey. He is a big-time Hollywood producer/director, and also a total scumbag. The FBI profiler, McCaleb, is investigating Storey's investigator, a small-time bail-bondsman.


McCaleb appraised the small business again and shook his head.

“I still don’t see how a neon bondsman and David Storey ever hooked up.”

The Sheriff's detective replies


“Hollywood is just street trash with money...”

So there, Lucy Liu, nah-nah-nah.

[bounty]

I remember watching roller derby when I was a kid. I only remember the "san francisco bay area bombers."

its a bummer that old roller derby was more or less just championship wrestling on an oval. the premise of the sport is pretty neat.

I might have to go watch rollerball.

that's kinda funny because I just grabbed a western to read instead of another detective novel. the branded man by hal everts.

I knew theres been some cinematic versions made of harry bosch. I usually enjoy being able to see someone elses depiction of the characters im reading so long as they are reasonable facsimiles but for some reason, I haven't watched anything "bosch" yet and so when I read Connelly, bosch remains a sorts of fuzzy nebulous character in my minds eye.

one of my favorite scenes in movies is the fight scene between uma Thurman and lucy liu in kill bill. have you seen it?

peaking of baseball---I just learned that in korea and I think maybe Taiwan too---some of the teams have cheerleaders, and Hubba Hubba! have you seen them?

[tailor STATELY]

Lol... my wife did the roller derby thing out of Oakland for a short time before we got together, she knew Joanie and Charlie and Battersby in passing.

Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
tailor

[Sancho]

Haha! Roller Derby! I like that kind of sport. Also Demolition Derby. It's like a buncha folks were sitting around one day, bored, and somebody says — Hey! Ya know what'd be fun?

We used to have a "sport" we devised when I was kid. We called it "Lake Idiot" We had this big wooden raft out in a lake. The raft had a high-dive on it. The Lake Idiot would position himself (or herself, it was a coed sport) under the diving board, treading water. Everybody else would line up and go off the board as fast as they could and try to land on the idiot. Great fun. Usually the Idiot could easily dodge the canon-ballers, but one day there was a twist. The designated Idiot had ridden her scooter to the lake and decided to wear her helmet while playing Lake Idiot. It totally changed the dynamics of the sport. She was in position and rather than trying to dodge the cannon-ballers, she was trying to spear them with her helmet. It made for some hilarious midair gyrations.

Yep, Kill Bill is the first place I remember seeing Lucy Liu. She was good in it. I got a serious fan-crush on her in that movie. I haven't seen it in years, but that final scene was so vivid that I remember it well. (I think I do anyway.) So bear with me please while I to try to recall the scene:

What I remember most is not the acting, but the cinematography, the music, and oddly the wardrobes. It's set in a gorgeous Japanese garden (on a rooftop I think). There's about an inch of fresh-fallen snow on the ground and the snow continues to fall, in big wet snowflakes, which indicates the temp is probably just below freezing. It's night, but sky is a weird bluish-purple, like maybe it's an hour or so before sunrise. There's a bamboo water feature in the garden that keeps clunking up and down. Lucy is wearing a pretty awesome white kimono and Uma is wearing a pretty awful yellow motorcycle outfit. The music is an instrumental version of Nina Simone's Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood, played in a Flamingo style. Anyway Lucy draws first blood with a wicked sword slash across Uma's back, who then falls backwards into the snow. I remember thinking the snow might help staunch the flow. Uma regroups and gets a good swipe across Lucy's thigh. There's a splash of dark-red blood against the white snow. Also white are Lucy's socks and she's wearing those wooden block flip flops, which I'm guessing are traditional footwear for a kimono. The color contrast is vivid when the blood runs from beneath her kimono, down her ankle, and in between her toes. There's more swordplay and I got the sense the advantage was tilting towards Uma. Then Lucy's scalp flies across the screen and plops unceremoniously in the snow. The color contrast again is vivid. This time it's black hair against white snow. There was another tune playing by this time but I don't remember what it was.

So how'd I do? It's funny that I remember the visual stuff and the audio, but I can't for the life of me remember the character's names.

[bounty]

you did great. I was going to post the YouTube clip of it, but instead I just did a screen shot that I attached in my post above. I love the incredibly slow falling snow, and the temporary slowness and then stillness of the combatants---a proverbial calm before the storm.

the song was a remake by a group called santa Esmerelda, the long version. the whole thing isn't an instrumental, but yes, the part in the movie didn't have the lyrics.

we had a couple semi crazy things we did as kids up here. one was piling bunches of us into the back of a pick up truck, driving really fast over a dike and getting air time, both as concerns the wheels and the bodies in the back.

the other was tying saucer sleds to back bumpers and driving in such a way as to separate the rider from the saucer. its making me laugh just remembering it.

[Sancho]

Hah! Good one. And of course there is mailbox baseball. We didn't invent it, but we certainly played it. Mailbox baseball has a sister sport for homeowners — making your mailbox impervious to mailbox baseball. A few years ago I putting flyers in the neighbor's mailboxes and came to one of those big-ole farm house mailboxes that was mounted on an old crankshaft. When I opened it I laughed out loud. There was a regular sized mailbox inside of the extra-large mailbox and filling the space between the two was poured concrete. Somebody was tired of replacing his mailbox, I reckon.

Argg! In my earlier post I meant Flamenco style not Flamingo style. A Flamenco guitar is made with spruce and mahogany and has nylon strings like a classical guitar only with a lower and faster action. It’s played with a driving rhythm often accompanied by castanets and sometimes a trumpet and to which a built-like-a-brick-house Spanish gal can dance along with in a most distinctive way. Mmm-hmm. A Flamingo guitar, by contrast, is made from pink plastic and is sometimes used as a lawn ornament.

[bounty]

I had some friends who went out with bats to whack mailboxes. they got caught and were potentially in bigggggggg trouble.

ah, well I missed "flamingo" too.

back on the topic of baseball---the Korean cheerleaders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10jiFkiZHMk

(the comment section is really good)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/DUhIZlkblXg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8oDVQ3srYc

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ja4yT8_Y-jY

apparently some of these girl are making six figure incomes.

tailor if you see this, heres an acdc California thing for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v_eSQCUObg

[Sancho]

Tru dat. Don't mess with the USPS. They'll go postal on you.

Thanks for the links. I'd be okay with cheerleaders in baseball. Although I prefer stuff like the baby racing event at the Savannah Banana's game you posted a while back.

[bounty]

there is a small university not far from where I grew up/live who that fields a D1 basketball team. they made it to the final four one year when I was a kid and won the NIT when I was in high school. I went to a game once, sometime after that and I thought the best part of the game wasn't just the game itself, but all the extra things that came along with it.

[bounty]

you'll like this Sancho:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZwlJO4ZsNnU?feature=share

[Sancho]

Nice. Two of my favorite books. Ya know, if people are still reading books 1000 years from now, they’ll still be reading those two. And Homer. Maybe Dante. And Stephen King — the one about the car that goes around killing people who say mean things about the car. That one was awesome!

[Danik 2016]

These two are among my favorites too!
I have just finished aa novel that reminds me very much of Cervantes but of our days. A family in a small Abroriginal town, father, mother and two sons. Everyone has a particular obsession. This is the mother, always surrounded by moths and butterflies:
"Butterflies always leave, she thought. They flit, dip, rise, while entering and exploring worlds only open to their eyes. She saw the plateauing and rupturing in the dance, where following the movement of air, the whiffs of colour chased away in clouds. They were spell-casters, rapidly disappearing from sight untrained to follow butterflies on these endless flights to who knows where, to the end of a wet, muddy pond, to the mangrove flower close by, or a migration a thousand miles away in a journey so perilous in drought, the great firestorms, or the sudden floodwaters creating a vast inland sea, and she wondered if any would return to the spirit home." Alexis Wright, Praiseworthy.

[hellsapoppin]

Roller Derby?

Glad to see folks discussing this fine sport/art form. Was quite a fan of it in the 1960s and early 70s. Charlie O'Connell was quite a hero nationwide. Joanie Weston, Tony Rome, Judy Arnold (she was so pretty in her youth!), Porky Parker, Ken Willis, Lester Quarles, were all great stars which everyone looked forward to watching every week. As with pro wrestling, I am a heel fan so that I always liked the bad guys. And my fave player was "Psycho" Ronny Raines:




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRIY9QZUsAEX_kf.jpg


Guy had a ferocious temper but he genuinely was a good athlete and was possibly the best of all time.

[Danik 2016]

Glad to see you back, Poppins!

[hellsapoppin]

Thanx @Danik!

[Sancho]

Roller Derby! I figured you had good instincts, Poppin.

How about Lucha Libre? (Professional Wrestling, Mexican Style)

On a more serious note, I’ve always liked Orienteering.

On a less serious note, a while back my younger brother and I came up with a new sport. We were both home from school for Christmas holiday and decided to try — Trampoline Boxing. Great fun, however, as I was arcing across the backyard, I realized he’d grown quite a bit since I’d seen him last. (I wound up with my arm in a cast for six weeks.)

[bounty]

trampoline boxing almost sounds like something youd see on the old man show, just preceding the ever popular "girls on trampolines" section or a bit for jackass.

im reading and enjoying Francine prose's blue angel, inspired by an old marlene Dietrich movies of the same name. I went in search of some internet reading about it, and came upon a really nice piece by the author herself:

https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2018/02/12/women-arent-angels/

but the reason I stopped in here to share that is because, on that page---egads I saw this!:

https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2025/02/21/how-do-you-write-an-opera-based-on-moby-dick/

[Sancho]

MOBY!

He cuts a wide swath. Has a broad wake. Whatever. I’d go see the opera. However, opera being opera, and Moby being Moby, I think I’d miss the alto and soprano parts. Moby is almost all dudes. I keep thinking the theme song would be some sort of a Volga Boatmen type of thing.

I’ve read several of Francine Prose’s books. I like her style. That reminds me — I need to get back to reading literary fiction. I’ve been burning through detective novels, like a frat boy through a six pack. Potboilers are fun, but typically disappointing in the end. The last couple of pages, where everything is revealed, usually feel like a “Scooby Doo” moment to me. “Ruh Row”

[bounty]

well if the opera comes to your neck of the woods, i'll be looking forward to hearing the review and how it stacks up against the man of la mancha!.

this is my first Francine prose book. I do like her writing but whats appealing in this particular case is the setting and the story lines. blue angel takes place on a college campus and the main characters are teachers and students.

[spikepipsqueak]

Hi to all. I don't get here much, but when I do, I love it.

Currently reading The Temple of My Familiar, by Alice Walker.

Also The Tin Drum by Gunter Grass, which I have suspended because I'm going OS soon and it's physically light and I won't mind leaving it in a street library when I'm finished. Not a book I want to treasure and read again in 5 years time.

In the interim, for light reading I am taking Agatha Christies off the shelf, reading them and putting them in the street library down the road. Don't want to give them shelf space when it's becoming hard to find.

When I was 15 I didn't notice what a comprehensive bigot Agatha was, and not just as a product of her times. She doesn't like women much and I have blushed to read her handling of black people and "the lower orders".

Interesting to note how writing quality dropped off in her later years. (Though the attitudes seemed to continue unchanged.)

I'm off the enjoy some other threads and looking forward to seeing all of you in another 3 or 4 months. :)

[Danik 2016]

Welcome back spike. There is a wonderful film based on the novel "Tin Drum". Maybe you'll prefer it to the book
https://www.justwatch.com/br/filme/o-tambor

[tailor STATELY]

Taking my time with 2061: Odyssey Three / Arthur C. Clarke... spoilers that I haven't read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2061:_Odyssey_Three ... then I'll finish the series off with 3001: The Final Odyssey

Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
tailor

[hellsapoppin]

Roller Derby! I figured you had good instincts, Poppin.

How about Lucha Libre? (Professional Wrestling, Mexican Style)



Oops, sorry -- I missed this question.

I do enjoy lucha libre though I preferred the old school wrasslin where the action was exclusively in the middle of the ring rather than the high flying action that is predominant today. Mil Mascaras (the Man of A Thousand Faces) was undoubtedly the greatest of those old schoolers. But as a heel fan, I much preferred Black Gordman. He could be the rudo while his opponents were the técnicos. In my youth I enjoyed the foto novelas and movies of El Santo:


https://solyucatan.mx/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/el-santo.jpg


foto novela:


https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.MyEzGa5x4Z59eYlcJNSqrQAAAA?w=189&h=267&c=7&r=0&o=5&pid=1.7

[hellsapoppin]

At present I am reading via audio book T. Harry Williams Huey Long



https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61qO46v7-3L._SL1200_.jpg




Long was truly the man of all seasons*. That is, until his enemies caught up with him.

This brings up a question, has online-lit ever had a group reading of All the King's Men by Robert Penn Warren? I read it way back in 1971 and have forgotten its contents. Mebbe I should read it again. I find Louisiana history to be very fascinating.




errata: man for all seasons

[Sancho]

I’d be up for reading All The King’s Men. In fact I already have a copy of it around here somewheres.

Anyone. Anyone?

[Sancho]

Has anyone here read Kent Haruf? I just finished his three novels set in the fictional town of Holt, Colorado: Plainsong, Eventide, and Benediction. I enjoyed them all.

[hellsapoppin]

Looks like no one wanted to group read All the King's Men. Mebbe some other time ...


Meanwhile, my latest reading via audio book:


Kindler of Soul: Rabbi Henry Cohen of Texas by Henry Cohen, Jr


https://www.amazon.com/Kindler-Souls-Rabbi-American-History/dp/029272215X

[tonywalt]

I am reading the life and times of michael k by jm coetzee. not sure why i never read this, as i love disgrace and his other works.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6193.Life_Times_of_Michael_K

[Sancho]

Gone Girl, by Gillian Flynn

Somehow I managed to make it to summer 2025 without ever reading this book, or seeing the movie, or really knowing anything about either. So I read it. What a gas.

It starts out like a conventional thriller/detective story — Wife goes missing. Hubby is the primary suspect, and somehow we'll all get to the bottom of it — The curve of the story reminded me of the way the Laci Peterson story played out. However in the novel the story is told more-or-less from the perspective of the hubby. Initially my sympathies ran towards the story teller. I wanted to like him. I wanted to believe he is innocent. But by the end of the first section I was pretty much convinced he’s a wife murderer, and all-around douchebag.

But that's just the first section and, clever me, I reasoned that since I was only about halfway through the book, something else had to be afoot. And sure enough Section Two is a doozy. From the very first sentence the story veers sharply from the Scott and Laci Peterson narrative. And this is where the story gets good.

Anybody else here read it?

[Sancho]

The Lords of Discipline, by Pat Conroy

I’d forgotten how good this book is. I read it shortly after it was initially published when I was in college (a state university not a military college) and now, 45 or so years down the road, I’m approaching it from a whole new perspective.

It’s set in Charleston, South Carolina at The Carolina Military Institute, which is a stand-in for the real-world military college — The Citadel. It mainly follows a few cadets from the class of ‘67 during their senior year (with a flashback section to their freshman year). Anyway lotsa stuff was happening in the good old U.S.of A. in 1967 and it was certainly a momentous year for colleges. However in this case we’re getting a unique perspective of that time because the story is told from behind the gates of a southern military college rather than from a place like U. C. Berkley.

[Danik 2016]

Welcome on board,Sancho.Sadly I haven't read any of these books you have been presenting lately, but I always take a look at your reviews.

[Sancho]

Thanks Danik.

The setup for the novel is pretty good. The school year 1966/67 is a tumultuous time in the USA. A popular President has recently been assassinated. The Civil rights Movement is gaining momentum. The Vietnam War is ramping up. Hippies are doing hippy things — smoking marijuana, having love-ins, playing Rock-n-Roll music. Yeech, the whole place is coming apart! And despite heavy resistance from many sides, a small military college in South Carolina has just admitted its first ever black cadet.

I think you can see the possibilities.

[Danik 2016]

True, Sancho! I still remember this time. We had our own tumults here, hippy culture and all that!
And a military college is a good scenario for reflecting these conflicts.

[Sancho]

Paulista Hippies. Now I’ve heard everything and I can finally die with a smile on my face.

I’ve got memories of 60s as well, Danik. However I missed out on most of the Hippy fun. You see, the school year 66/67 was my first-grade year. Anyway one of the things I like about reading Conroy is that he writes about places I know. He writes mostly about the low country in South Carolina. I grew up in the midlands region of that state. At one point in the book a few of the cadets take a road trip to my home town and this is how Conroy describes it:


Columbia, South Carolina, is a difficult city to love once you have lived in Charleston. It is a functional city, located in the dead center of the state, a hundred miles from the mountains and a hundred miles from the sea. Its summers are merciless and its winters are bitter and it has all the homeliness of America’s industrial midlands. But it is a vital, frisky city unburdened by the pretensions and the genealogical sinuosities of Charleston. Sherman had razed Columbia during the Civil War. It made you wonder how much the nature of Charleston depended on its deliverance from pillage and fire.

And here’s how one of the cadets describes it:


As we drove into the city, Mark said, “Columbia! What an armpit of a city. The whole place looks like it caught polio, then killed Doctor Salk.”

Yep, that’s where I’m from.

[hellsapoppin]

Ficciones by Jorge Luis Borges



[M]agical realism is a genre that presents a world that is generally realistic in its structure and presentation. The thing that sets it apart is the inclusion of magical elements. These magical elements are typically somewhat beneath the surface or not entirely obvious. For instance, there will be no massive magical battles with people throwing fireballs at each other in an example of magical realism in literature.

Magical realism is a genre that combines realism and fantasy. The basic premise behind this genre of literature is that it generally makes use of realistic portrayals of the world and mixes fantastical elements in, and these magical aspects are often, but not necessarily, subtle.
The magical realism genre has its origins in South America. While there are elements of magical realism that can be found around the world, the genre truly took root in South America. It has since become an international genre that can be seen around the world.
Many of the most prominent magical realism writers are South American. There are a number of important writers in this genre, and they came from various South American countries, such as Jorge Luis Borges, Gabriel García Márquez, and Isabel Allende. The genre is often noted for being directly related to the South American experience and cannot be divorced from this reality.


source:

https://artincontext.org/magical-realism/




Not my favorite reading but it does have considerable merit just the same. Magic implies something conjured up. Realism suggests something true. Thus, at bottom, the writings are truths conjured up in the imagination. The stories are marked by labyrinths, ideologies, iconography, fantasies, cosmology with the possibility of parallel universe(s) and illusory worlds, pilgrimages, etc. The words infinity and labyrinth being repeated multiple times throughout the book. All this with any one or multiple characters serving as microcosm for all: "To think, analyze, and invent ... to treasure ancient thoughts of others ... doctor universalis ... Every man should be capable of all ideas ..."

Like Oliver in The Last Puritan the narrator has many conflicts, has great admiration for Goethe, seeks knowledge.

[Danik 2016]

Back for this, later, Poppins!

[Sancho]

Nice post, Poppin.

I read One Hundred Years Of Solitude a while back, but I struggled with it. I remember wondering how much of it I was losing in translation. I never thought that with Cervantes or Dostoyevsky. One of these days I’m going to have another go at it.

Anyway I’m presently reading The Cold Millions, by Jess Walter. I’ve left the American South of the 1960s for the American Northwest at the turn of the 20th century. Pretty good so far. (My sympathies are running with the Wobblies at this point.)

[Danik 2016]

Magical realism seems not so easy to define to me, Poppins. If I rightly remember an explanation by Cortazar, I would say they are uncanny elements that however fit into a realistic context. I don’t know If I would characterize Borges "Ficciones" as magical realism, though there are uncanny elements in several of his stories. I read the book many years ago and what stands out for me today, are the highly intelectual games Borges plays with his reader which include false references, inexistent citations, literary mirror and labyrinths and much more.

[Sancho]

Okay, this is kinda funny. The last book I read had a less than favorable review of the town I grew up in (posted above). The book I'm reading now (The Cold Millions by Jess Walter) does the same to the town I'm living in now:


They were stranded four days down the Seattle skid, wet and cold, under a low gray ceiling. If the sun rose that week, Rye missed it.

Seattle was like an infection that started at the water and spread up the verdant hills. The smell of stewed harbor turned his guts: salt flats, log pulp, and fish guts stirred by a tide that gently rocked the city’s sewage back and forth. Gig said it was why he preferred a river town, because it took your sh*t away. “A man shouldn’t have to worry about his morning business coming back for him in the afternoon.”

I guess a hundred years ago people figured any body of water was a good place to take a dump.

[hellsapoppin]

Magical realism seems not so easy to define to me, Poppins. If I rightly remember an explanation by Cortazar, I would say they are uncanny elements that however fit into a realistic context. I don’t know If I would characterize Borges "Ficciones" as magical realism, though there are uncanny elements in several of his stories. I read the book many years ago and what stands out for me today, are the highly intelectual games Borges plays with his reader which include false references, inexistent citations, literary mirror and labyrinths and much more.



Like you I saw and was intrigued by those literary elements. I checked but couldn't find any in depth discussion of his work on this forum. If anyone would like to contribute a few analytical notes I would much appreciate them.

While the stories within the volume are succinct, there is much depth to them. But if they could be summarized in one sentence, I would refer to Edgar Allen Poe:
~ All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream ~.

[Danik 2016]

Thanks, Poppins.
I was afraid you disliked my comment. I consider Borges a very difficult author because of his very intelectual approach. In his way he is unique and I suspect there are not so many discussions of his work today. It was brave of you to bring them up. I'll see if I can write something about some of the Stories. Nothing that makes justice to them, but it might interest someone in them. But first I must reread them.

Just found this on my other forum: "El orden del Aleph" is a book by Faverón Patriau about The Aleph and the Borges' universe."

[hellsapoppin]

~ I was afraid you disliked my comment. ~


Heck no! So sorry to have given this impression.

Rest assured that your comments are always welcomed!

[fudgetusk]

A biog of Aleister Crowley. Funnily my full name is an anagram of ALEISTER BEAST ROLLS. Weird or what?

[spikepipsqueak]

The Murmur of Bees. Sofia Segovia


My life, and friend's book recommendations, are all aiming me at Mexico ATM. I don't regret reading this book for a second.


Also The Dying Light. which is the 2nd of a trilogy by Sean Williams and Shane Dix. Good solid science fiction.

[hellsapoppin]

my current reading:


An Emancipation of the Mind: Radical Philosophy, the War Over Slavery and the Refounding of America by Mathew Stewart



https://mwstewart.com/books/an-emancipation-of-the-mind/



How a band of antislavery leaders recovered the radical philosophical inspirations of the first American Revolution to defeat the slaveholders’ oligarchy in the Civil War.

This is a story about a dangerous idea―that all men are created equal―which ignited revolutions in America, France, and Haiti; burst across Europe in the revolutions of 1848; and returned to inflame a new generation of intellectuals to lead the abolition movement.

Frederick Douglass’s unusual interest in radical German philosophers and Abraham Lincoln’s odd, buried allusions to the same rationalist, secularist, and essentially atheist thinkers are but a few of the clues that underlie this propulsive philosophical detective story. With fresh takes on forgotten thinkers like Theodore Parker (a minister too radical even for the Unitarians, whose work provided some of Lincoln’s most famous lines) and a feisty band of German refugees, Matthew Stewart’s vivid storytelling and piercing insights forge a significant revision in our understanding of the origins and meaning of the struggle over slavery in America―and offer a fresh perspective on struggles between democracy and elite power today.