Evolution

[Shore Dude]

I like science. In particular, I like discussing the topic of Evolution. I wanted to start a thread to hear peoples' thoughts, experiences, ideas, etc.

The following occurrence happened to me about three or four months ago:

Last night I had an orange. I bit through one of the orange slices, but the manner in which I bit, was unlike my usual choice. For the first time, I used my incisor teeth on the bottom row of my mouth. I was able to bite completely through the orange slice, without piercing any of the bulbs, which hold the actual juice. At 26 years of age, I still was able to improve a process as simple as eating an orange. The experience was both pleasurable and insightful.

I was then reminded of the Discovery Channel. I once watched this show on sea otters, and I remembered the program showing these animals swimming down to the ocean bottom, retrieving shellfish and returning to the surface. While floating on their backs (with the fish on their stomachs), they used rocks to smash the shells of the fish. It was a process that was developed over time, because it allowed the sea otter to eat with greater ease.

Whether it is efficiency or pleasure, there is an animal instinct in each of us, which is constantly pushing our minds in the direction of something better. Evolution is defined as a "process of changing by degrees" (Webster's, 114). Extent, intensity, scope - are all nouns which shape the meaning of "evolution". Ergo, the process of growing, learning and changing is determined by the constant activity of our minds. It is the "Id" of the Freudian world. Evolution is associated with a line that is juxtaposed along this variable, thus making our lives an endless continuum of change.

[papayahed]

hmmm..... I can't think of a concrete experience but I know I have had one. I call them "moments of inspiration". When I'm in the middle of a task and the light bulb comes on and I realize there is a way better way of completeing the task. Something like that?

[mono]

Being both a sucker for science (especially biology and chemistry) and philosophy, I highly support the idea of species evolution.
Though I do not intend to offend any non-believers in evolution, biology has proven several ways in the manner that DNA changes and manipulates itself by surroundings and experiences.
Philosophically, I already believe that all life seems in a state of flux - not exactly quickly and miraculously, but through slow change gained from experience.

[papayahed]

ohhh, I just thought of something also. I was talking with an "Alien Cult" one day and this guy mentioned the law that said all things are always trying to get to it's simplest form (I can't remember which law). How is it through evolution more and more complex beings came into existence?

[mono]

The law that said all things are always trying to get to it's simplest form (I can't remember which law). How is it through evolution more and more complex beings came into existence?

Hmm, Occam's Razor, perhaps? That seems the closest concept I can think of, which states that for every problem, its solution lies the simplest answer, toward simplicity. I feel, however, that simplicity (or the simplest form) would allow that living being and their surroundings thrive in harmony, without problems; one, either living being or their surroundings, would require evolution of some kind, which, I believe, humans do both.
Was it Occam's Razor you referred to, papayahed, just to make sure?

[Basil]

I think he was probably referring to the second law of thermodynamics, i.e. the entropy law. Creationists often claim that the theory of evolution contradicts this law.

[papayahed]

I think he was probably referring to the second law of thermodynamics, i.e. the entropy law. Creationists often claim that the theory of evolution contradicts this law.

Thanks, that's the one Basil, except I'm a "she".

[Basil]

I know

I was referring to the "guy" you mentioned in your post . . .

[papayahed]

I know

I was referring to the "guy" you mentioned in your post . . .

oops, my bad.

[giosue_c]

but back to the original post... you are talking about learned behavior. Is evolution the correct word for that? Your story about the otters cracking the shells doesn't seem evolutionary unless you are talking about shellfish with stronger shells surviving. And by the way, how exactly does an otter use a rock to smash a shelfish? That is pretty cool.

[papayahed]

but back to the original post... you are talking about learned behavior. Is evolution the correct word for that? Your story about the otters cracking the shells doesn't seem evolutionary unless you are talking about shellfish with stronger shells surviving. And by the way, how exactly does an otter use a rock to smash a shelfish? That is pretty cool.

The otters cracking shells with rocks could be evolutionary, the ones that learned to crack survived and the others that didn't perhaps starved for lack of food?

[Shore Dude]

When I was brainstorming thoughts on Evolution, I do not believe I had any specific purpose. I seem to learn more about a topic through enlightening discussion. So I was just hoping to hear peoples' insights on a topic I enjoy thinking about.

With that said, I kind of feel as though Evolution is a constant variable of change acting around our daily lives. I remember hearing a science teacher discuss Evolution, and he had said that many times, the reason why people have a difficult time grasping the concept of Evolution, is because it is such a slow and arduous process. Some times, an Evolutionary change could take place over thousands of years.

But that experience I had, eating that orange. If you look at it as a piece of a larger puzzle, could that be Evolution at work? The event expanded my mind. It allowed me to engage in a task (i.e. eating) with greater ease. Could that be attributed to Evolution? The advancement of knowledge? Is the definition of Evolution subjective?

I also had a debate at one point with someone, because I called Evolution a force of nature. He had debated it was not an actual force, but I think he was taking my meaning too literally. But can Evolution be considered a force that is constantly affecting our daily lives, even in the most miniscule of ways?

And by the way, how exactly does an otter use a rock to smash a shelfish? That is pretty cool.

I think sea otters are cool animals. And if you have never seen a show on them, you should try and find one. They are actually pretty smart creatures. But how they eat shell fish, is they go to the bottom of a river, grab a shell fish and a rock. Then, while they float on their backs, with the shell fish on their stomach, they use a rock to crack the shell. I am not familiar with too many animals that use tools in such a way. It's pretty cool.

[giosue_c]

I think I need to see this program you mentioned. I am having a hard time visualizing this. When you say the otter lies on his back I think of him sort of lounging in some shallows with a piile of shellfish next to him. Then he takes his little rock tool and smashes some little shelled critter next to him, and pops that into his mouth.

All you have to do is put a remote control in his hand, and the otter will have reached the evolutionary level of the couch potato

[giosue_c]

The otters cracking shells with rocks could be evolutionary, the ones that learned to crack survived and the others that didn't perhaps starved for lack of food?

Good point papayahed. But it isn't the learned behavior that is essential to the survivors, rather the capacity for learning. I think there is an important distinction to be made there. Of course, we might all be in agreement here, depending on how you read the arguments.

[Jester]

my mom is a biology teacher and my dad's favorite hobby is rocks, fossils and stuff like that (thats part of one of hte many evidences for evolution) so im partial to believe in evalution but for me the most obvious thing that i can make is that soemtimes i see no difference between little children and specific animals... its quite scarry, scarrier still that soem adults are no more human than animal