Hip-hop/Rap

[EDTSCS3]

Hi... I'm new here and I was wondering what the "literary community" thinks of the lyricists in the rap genre of music. I personally think that artists like Tupac Shakur and Nassir Jones are creative thinkers that actually deserve some credit when discussed in an "intellectual" sense. Unfortunately, I think people (especially those who are a tad older and haven't given it much of a chance) tend to look at rap with disgust because of the simple and explicit lyrics of the newer artists that are only interested in money and women. I don't think this was/is the case with such rappers as Tupac and Nas... If you think I'm crazy, don't hesitate to tell me--I'm just curious.

[ShoutGrace]

Disgusting and explicit lyrics?

No way!

Or, alternately:

eye's on tha prize
finger on tha trigga when a nig*a rides
shootin' craps
bustin' nig*as out tha door
pick my money off tha floor
god bless tha tre-four
stuck on full, drunk again
sippin' on Gin
with a couple of friends
sayin' those thug life nig*as be like major pimps
stickin' to tha rules is what made it simp
and if I die
let it be
but when they come for me
bury me a G

I suspect it is probable that the hip-hop community in general has earned greater literary merit than the 'intellectuals' have given it.

It is probably a racial bias.

[mono]

Hello, EDTSCS3, welcome to the forum.
Though, to tell all honesty, I cannot really consider myself a fan of rap and hip-hop music, I still express whatever respect I have for those who have talent, most talent relying on lyrics (a rare virtue among some contemporary rap artists these days). I recall hearing something, actually, that the first intention of rap began with expressing slam-poetry; though not to sound rude, I think the glam, crime, and promiscuity has partially ruined that aim at slam-poetry with most artists.
In retrospect, I remember hearing a song by Tupac calls Changes. As I said, I cannot consider myself a big fan, I found the lyrics amiable, interesting, and containing quite a message.

[Sabo]

I don't like the music side of the rap. I doesn't speak to me. The few times I've tried to listen to the [I]lyrics[I] I've been positively surprised by its freshness and innovativity. Sure, there is a lot of words not be mentioned on a forum like this one, but I see that more as a part of the stilistic marker of the genre than as a signifing content.

[genoveva]

Like, with everything, there are some really awesome lyrics, and some that just aren't our taste. I've always enjoyed KRS-ONE's lyrics, and here's one from Tupac:


Liberty Needs Glasses

Liberty Needs Glasses
excuse me but lady liberty needs glasses
and so does mrs justice by her side
both the broads r blind as bats
stumbling thru the system
justice bumbed into mutulu and
trippin on geronimo pratt
but stepped right over oliver
and his crooked partner ronnie

justice stubbed her big toe on mandela
and liberty was misquoted by the indians
slavery was a learning phase
forgotten with out a verdict
while justice is on a rampage
4 endangered surviving black males
i mean really if anyone really valued life
and cared about the masses
theyd take em both 2 pen optical
and get 2 pair of glasses

Written by Tupac Shakur (1971-1996)

[genoveva]

I remember hearing a song by Tupac calls Changes.

Thanks for this- Now I want to hear the song sung!

[genoveva]

It is probably a racial bias.

What is?

[EDTSCS3]

Sure, there is a lot of words not be mentioned on a forum like this one, but I see that more as a part of the stilistic marker of the genre than as a signifing content.

Yeah... I definitely agree with you here. I think that I have a problem with people dismissing literature and art just because of its explicitness. (is that a word?) And I want to say that most rap, especially today, is terrible, not creative, and totally lacking any sort of meaning at all. (in my opinion) But, even in "Bury Me a G" that was posted here, I believe Tupac is giving a message of a fallen or tragic hero. I don't think he's promoting the vulgar ideals in his lyrics. Instead, he's using the reality of how he lived (lives) to show how bad it was.

I guess the bottom line is that I don't believe literature and art should be shunned by society only because of explicitness. If a person can use vulgar content to convey a message through creativity, I don't see a problem with that.

[Ryduce]

Dear Mama by Tupac is probably one of the greatest songs I've ever heard.Though I'm not a fan of most rap music,some of Tupac's songs are heavy,and Dear Mama is a prime example.

[Virgil]

I suspect it is probable that the hip-hop community in general has earned greater literary merit than the 'intellectuals' have given it.

It is probably a racial bias.

Oh, I wouldn't go that far. No pop music or pop art is given any credit by the intellectual community. It doesn't have anythng to do with race. And how can you say there is no violence or explicit lyrics? They have a special term called "gangsta rap." I don't really listen to it, but when I've caught a video on TV, it was pretty explicit to me.

[ShoutGrace]

Oh, I wouldn't go that far. No pop music or pop art is given any credit by the intellectual community. It doesn't have anythng to do with race. And how can you say there is no violence or explicit lyrics? They have a special term called "gangsta rap." I don't really listen to it, but when I've caught a video on TV, it was pretty explicit to me.

Virgil, I was being entirely sarcastic. I posted the violent and explicit lyrics to evidence that aim; my statement is hopefully glaringly contradictory to the nature of the lyrics that I posted.

Perhaps we need to differentiate between 'gangsta rap' and 'hip hop'. The rhythm and beat of hip hop music is not altogether offensive to me; the lyrics are. I find the explicitness degrading. I find the themes and values presented therein to be counterproductive and demeaning; hurtful and shallow.

[Virgil]

Virgil, I was being entirely sarcastic. I posted the violent and explicit lyrics to evidence that aim; my statement is hopefully glaringly contradictory to the nature of the lyrics that I posted.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't pick up on it. Silly me.

[genoveva]

in "Bury Me a G" that was posted here, I believe Tupac is giving a message of a fallen or tragic hero. I don't think he's promoting the vulgar ideals in his lyrics. Instead, he's using the reality of how he lived (lives) to show how bad it was.

He's writing what he knows. For this reason and more make him a very effective poet.

I guess the bottom line is that I don't believe literature and art should be shunned by society only because of explicitness. If a person can use vulgar content to convey a message through creativity, I don't see a problem with that.

There is lots of vulgarity and explicitness in much of great literature. Take the Marque de Sade for example.

[EDTSCS3]

There is lots of vulgarity and explicitness in much of great literature. Take the Marque de Sade for example.

Thank you... someone that finally thinks like me

[EDTSCS3]

Perhaps we need to differentiate between 'gangsta rap' and 'hip hop'. The rhythm and beat of hip hop music is not altogether offensive to me; the lyrics are. I find the explicitness degrading. I find the themes and values presented therein to be counterproductive and demeaning; hurtful and shallow.

I respect that stand whole-heartedly. And as I said before, a lot of the artists (especially the newer ones) do communicate the hurtful and shallow themes you speak of. However, I think people like Tupac Shakur convey deeper messages than the lyrics send upon first glance.

I guess the question I'm really asking here is: is art bad if it has explicitness in it? And if so, is there a way to draw the line between "too explicit" and "acceptable explicitness?"