God and Sin

[dark_182_88]

I have come up with this conclusion. I know many of you might not accept it, I know it might very well not be right, but it's a pretty controversial thing, hear me out.

God likes sin. God wants sin to happen.

Earth, is not an ideal world. It can never be. If it was it would be paradise or heaven. In the world, there are usualy 2 poles. Negative and positive. You can't have one without the other. For every action there's a reaction.

If we are not to sin, then the negative would disapear. If that happens, then we would not be living on the Earth. We would be living in paradise or heaven. If we are not to sin, then we would be living in an ideal world. We would be living in a world full of postive things, which logicaly cannot exist.

Therefore, God wants sin to happen. Because, if sin does not exist, then there is no life on Earth. Sin is needed so that we live in a balanced world. Sin is needed so that we can pass through God, to cast away our sins. Sin is evil, and it is condoned by God (logicaly), but in the meantime God cannot or does not exist if sin does not happen, if negative does not exist.

Therefore, are we to think that God is not perfect, because he can't create a world where evil does not exist? Are we to think that God is not perfect, because God can't exterminate sin or atleast have it subdued? Or are we to think that God is not perfect, because God needs sin so that we exist, which in order makes him evil, and in order make him not God?


What do you think?

[Diadem]

I have come up with this conclusion. I know many of you might not accept it, I know it might very well not be right, but it's a pretty controversial thing, hear me out.

This is a free country. If we don't ask questions, we can never affirm our faith. God doesn't want you to just believe it because people tell you it is so; he encourages you to study and affirm it for yourself.

God likes sin. God wants sin to happen.

I'd have to respectfully disagree with your hypothesis. God does not like sin nor does he want his creations to sin. The devil likes sin and wants sin to happen because it goes against God's wishes and causes discord among God's people.

Earth, is not an ideal world. It can never be.

This would be a philosophical approach and I can't debate how you perceive the world my friend. I, in fact, do see the world as an ideal place because we all have the potential to not sin and live in complete harmony. If that potential did NOT exist, then I would agree with you in that we do not live in an ideal world because we could never achieve such an ideal; but, because the potential does exist, it is an ideal world, at least in my eyes. All we have to do is come to know God and obey his word and that ideal can be achieved. Without God, that ideal will not be achieved, but the potential still remains.

If it was it would be paradise or heaven.

It is not now, but it has the potential to be. If we all obey God's two main commandments (love thy God with all thy heart and love thy brother like thy self), we could achieve that ideal. It's that simple.

In the end, the ideal will be achieved because God will render judgment and destroy all evil. It will be His Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.

In the world, there are usualy 2 poles. Negative and positive. You can't have one without the other. For every action there's a reaction.

Absolutely.

If we are not to sin, then the negative would disapear.

And, this is where the confusion becomes apparent.

IF we are not to sin, then SIN would disappear, but the POTENTIAL TO SIN will always remain because we are humans, and humans are fallible. Only through the obedience of God's word do we have the potential to negate that fallibility. Without him, we cannot.

In Biblical scripture, the POTENTIAL TO SIN is TEMPTATION and it will always remain, but God has given us the power to resist that TEMPTATION if you follow his advice. All His word is- is merely advice. Because we have free will, he cannot force us to do anything. Nor does he want to. He wants you to love him on your own accord.

Temptation = Potential to Sin

If that happens, then we would not be living on the Earth.

If sin did not occur (we did not sin), we'd be living in peace on Earth- the ideal. However, the temptation, or potential to sin, would still remain.

We would be living in paradise or heaven.

Without sin, yes, we would.

If we are not to sin, then we would be living in an ideal world.

Correct.

We would be living in a world full of postive things, which logicaly cannot exist.

Sure it can. If Jesus Christ could do it, so can we. The potential to sin will always remain until Jesus Christ the Savior returns to render judgment and take his followers to Heaven, and in the process, he will defeat all evil and dissolve all sin.

If we stopped sinning, there will still be a potential to sin, and that is what you must realize.

What is potential energy in physics? It is energy stored that may be converted into kinetic energy.

As an analogy,

TEMPTATION : POTENTIAL :: SIN : KINETIC

You also have the choice of believing in God, which is also potential.

CHOICE: POTENTIAL :: RESIST TEMPTATION (follow His word): KINETIC

Make sense?

Therefore, God wants sin to happen. Because, if sin does not exist, then there is no life on Earth.

As above, God does not want sin to happen. God wants his children to follow his word so they can achieve the right to enter his kingdom and live in eternal bliss. If sin does not exist, we live in an ideal world in which LIFE THRIVES on Earth and we achieve happiness. Without sin, we achieve the ideal, but the potential of sin still and always will remain until the judgment time.

Sin is needed so that we live in a balanced world.

No, balance is theoretically achieved by the potential for sin and the potential not to sin, or temptation and the ability to resist temptation.

Think of it like a hot stove. Getting burned by touching the stove is "sin". Your free will dictates that you will encounter "potential for sin". In other words, there is nothing stopping you from touching the stove and getting burned, or sinning. Right?

God says to obey his word lest you fall into sin. Your mother said do not touch the stove (resist temptation) or you could get burned (sin). When we do not resist temptation and touch the stove instead, we get burned once (sin), and hopefully we learn our lesson (and resist temptaton).

If you continue to sin, you risk the danger of being severely burned. God only hopes that you learn your lesson long before that. You see, for some people, it only takes one time to get burned and they never try it again. For other people, they continue to give in to temptation (disobey God and listen to the Devil) and they get severely burned (dangerous sin). Usually at this point, however unfortunate it may be to arrive at that juncture, people experience a life changing event that makes them come back to God.

Did you understand that? Have you ever heard of people who continue taking drugs in complete disobedience to God's word and finally they have an overdose and almost die? That is being "severely burned". That is usually where they make a conscious decision to either return to God or the Devil takes their life because they did not learn their lesson even after being "severely burned".

Sin exists to warn us of the inherent danger that awaits if we disobey God's word (or the warning of your mother to stay away from the stove). By refusing to listen to God, we get burned each and every time. Not by him, but by the Devil, because we did not heed God's warning the first time (after touching the stove, we continued to touch it).

Sin is needed so that we can pass through God, to cast away our sins. Sin is evil, and it is condoned by God (logicaly), but in the meantime God cannot or does not exist if sin does not happen, if negative does not exist.

We do not need to sin. It is up to us to resist temptation. It is definitely not condoned by God. God exists regardless if we sin or not. While in an ideal world we may cease to sin, the potential for sin will always remain. Just like the North and South poles.

Therefore, are we to think that God is not perfect, because he can't create a world where evil does not exist? Are we to think that God is not perfect, because God can't exterminate sin or atleast have it subdued? Or are we to think that God is not perfect, because God needs sin so that we exist, which in order makes him evil, and in order make him not God?

God did create a perfect world, but it was because man did not obey God that essentially corrupted the ideal for the remainder of humanity. Consequently, it is our choice (free will) to return to God (achieve salvation) or we can continue to eat the "forbidden fruit" and remain under the influence of the devil by giving into temptation.

We are humans of the flesh. We are not perfect like God. By following his word, we can be perfect like him, but it is up to us to follow His word in order to do so.

Hope that answers everything.

What do you think?

Very good questions.

How is the response? Sound reasonable?

[dark_182_88]

This is a free country. If we don't ask questions, we can never affirm our faith. God doesn't want you to just believe it because people tell you it is so; he encourages you to study and affirm it for yourself.

Exactly, and that is the exact reason why I posted it. I do not necesarily believe in what I just said, but just saying that drives us into exploring the humanical and philosophical terms of God related to religion, and that drives us into understanding our faith and religion even more, therefore I find such questions of utter importance.

I'd have to respectfully disagree with your hypothesis. God does not like sin nor does he want his creations to sin. The devil likes sin and wants sin to happen because it goes against God's wishes and causes discord among God's people.

Well, to be quite honest with you, I do not believe much in the devil. I believe in this evil "force" within us, but I believe that to be our work. I will post you an article later about that that further explains what I mean by that. Therefore for that reason I believe that sin is done by us over here, and not by the devil, but rather as you explain it in your other replies, is basicaly caused by temptation. That can be largely attribute to the fact that, we are born free.

This would be a philosophical approach and I can't debate how you perceive the world my friend. I, in fact, do see the world as an ideal place because we all have the potential to not sin and live in complete harmony. If that potential did NOT exist, then I would agree with you in that we do not live in an ideal world because we could never achieve such an ideal; but, because the potential does exist, it is an ideal world, at least in my eyes. All we have to do is come to know God and obey his word and that ideal can be achieved. Without God, that ideal will not be achieved, but the potential still remains.

The potential still remains, so its a near-ideal place. It is not an ideal place, but it has the potential to be so. But the potential is the willingness found in us, mankind, to make it even more ideal. But even to that, ideal means perfect basicaly. An ideal place would be a place where one pole exists alone, where the negative does not exist, just the positive. Therefore, that can't and doesn't exist, or else that would be paradise or heaven (the very definition of an ideal place where all is good, the reason why adam and eve got cast out of paradise, because the idealism {good-only} was gone).

It is not now, but it has the potential to be. If we all obey God's two main commandments (love thy God with all thy heart and love thy brother like thy self), we could achieve that ideal. It's that simple.

That my friend, takes us back to religion. In my honest opinion, christianity and the teachings of Christ, by themselves achieve an ideal place. If all mankind is christian and if all humans abide by christianity exactly the way it is according to how Christ defines it, then we would be living in an ideal place. Why? You said it yourself. Love thy brother like thyself, love thy neigbor, love your enemy, and so on...If those axiomes exist, then in no way could evil exist logicaly. If you love your enemy then you do not have an enemy, or moreover that enemy isnt considered by you your enemy, and moreover if you live like that then even if one tries to make war with you never would you do war but make peace and love, and if all people on earth act like that then there would be no enemy in the first place and thus no evil would exist.

But, hence, this could never happen. This could never ever happen without mentioning logic and logical reasons, but since as you say temptation is always there.

And, this is where the confusion becomes apparent.

IF we are not to sin, then SIN would disappear, but the POTENTIAL TO SIN will always remain because we are humans, and humans are fallible. Only through the obedience of God's word do we have the potential to negate that fallibility. Without him, we cannot.

In Biblical scripture, the POTENTIAL TO SIN is TEMPTATION and it will always remain, but God has given us the power to resist that TEMPTATION if you follow his advice. All His word is- is merely advice. Because we have free will, he cannot force us to do anything. Nor does he want to. He wants you to love him on your own accord.

Temptation = Potential to Sin

Totaly agree with you. As for the merely advice that you talked about, well I think that is totaly clear in Christ's words, as I mentioned above of working on Christ's teachings which would help achieve an ideal place.

Sure it can. If Jesus Christ could do it, so can we. The potential to sin will always remain until Jesus Christ the Savior returns to render judgment and take his followers to Heaven, and in the process, he will defeat all evil and dissolve all sin.

Here I have to disagree with you. We cannot do that, since we are not Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ, is the son of the father (God the father) and part of the trinity which in itself makes God (as you explained it to me in another post ). Therefore, because he is the son of man, he can do it, even though with great difficulty. But if the son of God could do it but with such difficulty, then how would you expect one man to do it (not to mention all humanity).

If we stopped sinning, there will still be a potential to sin, and that is what you must realize.

What is potential energy in physics? It is energy stored that may be converted into kinetic energy.

As an analogy,

TEMPTATION : POTENTIAL :: SIN : KINETIC

You also have the choice of believing in God, which is also potential.

CHOICE: POTENTIAL :: RESIST TEMPTATION (follow His word): KINETIC

Make sense?

Makes perfect sense. Absolutely brilliant.

As above, God does not want sin to happen. God wants his children to follow his word so they can achieve the right to enter his kingdom and live in eternal bliss. If sin does not exist, we live in an ideal world in which LIFE THRIVES on Earth and we achieve happiness. Without sin, we achieve the ideal, but the potential of sin still and always will remain until the judgment time.

Woah, what you just said right there, the one sentence and a half, can take us into a whole new topic which would be as complicated as this one, so Im gonna refrain from going there.

No, balance is theoretically achieved by the potential for sin and the potential not to sin, or temptation and the ability to resist temptation.

Think of it like a hot stove. Getting burned by touching the stove is "sin". Your free will dictates that you will encounter "potential for sin". In other words, there is nothing stopping you from touching the stove and getting burned, or sinning. Right?

God says to obey his word lest you fall into sin. Your mother said do not touch the stove (resist temptation) or you could get burned (sin). When we do not resist temptation and touch the stove instead, we get burned once (sin), and hopefully we learn our lesson (and resist temptaton).

If you continue to sin, you risk the danger of being severely burned. God only hopes that you learn your lesson long before that. You see, for some people, it only takes one time to get burned and they never try it again. For other people, they continue to give in to temptation (disobey God and listen to the Devil) and they get severely burned (dangerous sin). Usually at this point, however unfortunate it may be to arrive at that juncture, people experience a life changing event that makes them come back to God.

Did you understand that? Have you ever heard of people who continue taking drugs in complete disobedience to God's word and finally they have an overdose and almost die? That is being "severely burned". That is usually where they make a conscious decision to either return to God or the Devil takes their life because they did not learn their lesson even after being "severely burned".

Sin exists to warn us of the inherent danger that awaits if we disobey God's word (or the warning of your mother to stay away from the stove). By refusing to listen to God, we get burned each and every time. Not by him, but by the Devil, because we did not heed God's warning the first time (after touching the stove, we continued to touch it).

I totaly understand what you mean. But here, you can actualy say as well that sin is needed to have a balanced world, because without sin, you wouldn't have temptation on one side and power to resist temptation on the other side. And as well if sin wasn't there then again we'd be living in an ideal world. But for the rest of what you say I totaly agree.

Very good questions.

Thank you, very good answers

How is the response? Sound reasonable?

Absolutely.

[Theshizznigg]

I think that you've misunderstood the basic precepts of God, etc, etc. Still you are thinking, and asking questions, which is infinately a good thing.