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Thread: the holy ghost/the holy spirit

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    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Question the holy ghost/the holy spirit

    I am trying to understand the meaning of the holy ghost.
    what is the ghost? or what is it refering to?
    Last edited by cacian; 05-01-2012 at 09:19 AM.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

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    ShadowsCool ShadowsCool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    I am trying to understand the meaning of the holy ghost.
    what is the ghost? or what is it refering to?
    The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and is Almighty God. The Holy Spirit is seen as one Person of the Triune God, who revealed His Holy Name YHWH to his people Israel, sent His Eternally Begotten Son Jesus to save them from God's wrath, and sent the Holy Spirit to sanctify and give life to his Church. The Triune God manifests as three Persons in One Divine Being called the Godhead, the Divine Essence of God.

    To try and get a grasp on this, I refer the following:

    So then, you have the Lord God of all, and, you have that Lord God in the flesh (Jesus Christ), and, you have the Spirit of that Lord God (the Holy Spirit), but they are all One. The three; God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three aspects of the same one entity, that being the Ever Living Almighty Lord God. To understand how this can be so, look at it like this:

    You may be a father to your child, you also may be a husband to your wife, and to your employees at work you are a boss. But you are not three people, yet all three of those people are the one you (father, husband and boss). When you are at work, you do not cease being boss when your wife walks in whom knows you as husband. Likewise, you do not cease being husband to your wife when your children come home and call you father. Well, the same goes with God, only on a much grander scale.

    The following is a great primer if you care to know. It's really in depth but a worthy read for someone wishing to understand the Godhead in general. If not then they can just skip it.
    http://www.biblestudysite.com/trinity.htm#5
    Last edited by ShadowsCool; 05-01-2012 at 11:40 PM.
    shad·ow ing

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    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Hey ShadowsCool this is great thank you very much. I shall have a read and get back to you if I have any more questions. I hope you do not mind.
    One thing came up is the word
    'ghost' f
    from my understanding and as a general knowlege a ghost means dead. one has to be dead to be one if ever there is one.
    The other issue I have with the word 'ghost' is that it signal to me the concept witchcraft and boudism because these are the two concepts that believe in spirits and ghosts.
    Christianity does not believe in witchcraft and is historically knownto have burnt at the suspected witches or those practiced witchcraft.
    The question here
    how does a ghost concept enters christianity and makes a holy concept?
    Isn't the integration of the word ghost in the trinity suggesting/saying it does believe in spirits and ghosts?
    Last edited by cacian; 05-02-2012 at 09:15 AM.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

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    Interesting posts, shadows cool, full explanation of the concept of trinity. But I m still confused to totally grasp of the concept so i m responding.

    You said Father son and holy spirit are actually one known as Godhood or Lord God.
    The example you quoted “You may be a father to your child, you also may be a husband to your wife, and to your employees at work you are a boss. But you are not three people “ ......................


    the example is good to explain a person dealing in three places but its irrelevant and it seems odd when u are going to explain the trinity concept that what is the relation of three (Father,Son, Holyspirit) with each other. When we see that you are the father, u r the father of ur children, not YOURSELF you cannot say that u r children of your own self. if u r boss then u must have some employess which are not “You”, same if u r husband of someone then someone is another being that is ur wife, you can b husband at one time or is it possible that u can also be the wife of urself

    if u say that this trinity is actually one then question arises. Like you said “So then, you have the Lord God of all, and, you have that Lord God in the flesh (Jesus Christ), and, you have the Spirit of that Lord God (the Holy Spirit), but they are all One. The three; God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three aspects of the same one entity, that being the Ever Living Almighty Lord God.”

    God in the flesh (jesus Christ) is the son of himself (Lord God, as they are one)?
    God jesus Christ is the father of himself (as He is Lord God in the flesh) ?

    So there is a series of question but hold on till I get the answers of these..
    Last edited by usman.khawar; 05-02-2012 at 09:07 AM.
    Rab e adkhilni Mudkhla Sidqnw wa akhrijni mukhraja sidkanw wja alni milla dunka Sultananasira!!

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    ShadowsCool ShadowsCool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    How does a ghost concept enter christianity and make a holy concept?
    Isn't the integration of the word ghost in the trinity suggesting/saying it does believe in spirits and ghosts?
    The differences are more linguistic than theological. I refer this page for a very clear explanation on the history of the word usage of Ghost & Spirit. It has nothing to do with witchcraft or the like.

    http://www.adishakti.org/_/holy_spir...holy_ghost.htm
    shad·ow ing

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    The change from "Holy Ghost" to "Holy Spirit" was a case where English usage changed so a word which in the 18th century may have accurately translated pnuemata or ruhak was no longer accurate in the late 20th century.

    Who speaks of "giving up the ghost" anymore? Usage changes.

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    ShadowsCool ShadowsCool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usman.khawar View Post
    if u say that this trinity is actually one then question arises. Like you said “So then, you have the Lord God of all, and, you have that Lord God in the flesh (Jesus Christ), and, you have the Spirit of that Lord God (the Holy Spirit), but they are all One. The three; God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three aspects of the same one entity, that being the Ever Living Almighty Lord God.”

    God in the flesh (jesus Christ) is the son of himself (Lord God, as they are one)?
    God jesus Christ is the father of himself (as He is Lord God in the flesh) ?

    So there is a series of question but hold on till I get the answers of these..
    Well first off I do refer to this link down below for the best in depth explanation there is regarding the Trinity. It is a bit long but I think well worth the read for someone trying to even grasp its meaning.

    As you may know, this is one of the cornerstone belief's in mainstream Christianity, and one that is poorly understood by most people in general. The reason is because explaining the concept of God to anyone is a huge challenge. We are talking about a divine force. One who is way above our intellect to even consider. And that is no cope out, just the truth.

    This 'concept' of the Trinity has held up for 2,000 years and is sound theology. Actually it goes back as long as the first words were written in the Bible. It just became fully developed with the New Testament. Many cults today deny the Trinity much as many people can't phantom it. But let's face it, how do you explain an All Mighty Powerful Force that is omnipresent? It boggles the mind. Yet we can barely grasp it, to know it is real, without understanding it.

    One thing I do understand from reading the scripture is, you have the Lord God of all, and, you have that Lord God in the flesh (Jesus Christ], and, you have the Spirit of that Lord God the Holy Spirit, but they are all One. The three; God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three aspects of the same one entity, that being the Ever Living Almighty Lord God.

    Some may say that it is hard to comprehend how God can be in three different places [in Heaven, coming down descending "like a Dove", and Jesus on the earth] all at the same time; and I certainly would agree. But allot of things were done simply so that we would understand. For the Holy Spirit needn't have visibly [appearing like a Dove] come down and rested upon Jesus as was done in the above Scripture, for Jesus was begotten of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit was within Him, it was His Holy Spirit:

    A passage from that link:
    "It is difficult, yea impossible even, for us to fully comprehend when Jesus prayed to God. For Jesus was God, yet He spoke with Himself: "These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee" John 17:1], but in another place Jesus said: "I and my Father are one" [John 10:30], and again He said: "...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father...I am in the Father, and the Father in me...the Father that dwelleth in me..." [John 14:9-10]. So why then should Jesus pray to Himself unless it was for our benefit."

    My understanding of this is God is the Father; God is the Son; and God is the Holy Spirit and they are all One. As hard as that is to grasp with our comparably feeble minds. It is not 3 Gods, but 1 God in 3 different manifestations of the Godhead.

    It is impossible for us to wrap our minds around the concept. That does not mean it is not true. God is such a higher force that anything is possible with God. Because He is right in front of you yet you cannot see Him. This is difficult for the human mind to conceive, much yet embrace. This is why there is much derision regarding the Trinity and God in general. People want something they can see and hug. I refer this site for anyone interested in further perusal of the subject :


    http://www.biblestudysite.com/trinity.htm
    Last edited by ShadowsCool; 05-02-2012 at 02:25 PM.
    shad·ow ing

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowsCool View Post
    The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and is Almighty God. The Holy Spirit is seen as one Person of the Triune God, who revealed His Holy Name YHWH to his people Israel, sent His Eternally Begotten Son Jesus to save them from God's wrath, and sent the Holy Spirit to sanctify and give life to his Church. The Triune God manifests as three Persons in One Divine Being called the Godhead, the Divine Essence of God.

    To try and get a grasp on this, I refer the following:

    So then, you have the Lord God of all, and, you have that Lord God in the flesh (Jesus Christ), and, you have the Spirit of that Lord God (the Holy Spirit), but they are all One. The three; God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three aspects of the same one entity, that being the Ever Living Almighty Lord God. To understand how this can be so, look at it like this:

    You may be a father to your child, you also may be a husband to your wife, and to your employees at work you are a boss. But you are not three people, yet all three of those people are the one you (father, husband and boss). When you are at work, you do not cease being boss when your wife walks in whom knows you as husband. Likewise, you do not cease being husband to your wife when your children come home and call you father. Well, the same goes with God, only on a much grander scale.

    The following is a great primer if you care to know. It's really in depth but a worthy read for someone wishing to understand the Godhead in general. If not then they can just skip it.
    http://www.biblestudysite.com/trinity.htm#5

    Interesting posts, shadows cool, full explanation of the concept of trinity. But I m still confused to totally grasp the concept so i m responding.

    You said Father son and holy spirit are actually one known as Godhood or Lord God.
    The example you quoted “You may be a father to your child, you also may be a husband to your wife, and to your employees at work you are a boss. But you are not three people “ ......................


    the example is good to explain a person dealing in three places but its irrelevant and it seems odd when u are going to explain the trinity concept that what is the relation of three (Father,Son, Holyspirit) with each other. When we see that you are the father, u r the father of ur children, not YOURSELF you cannot say that u r children of your own self. if u r boss then u must have some employess which are not “You”, same if u r husband of someone then someone is another being that is ur wife, you can b husband at one time or is it possible that u can also be the wife of urself

    if u say that this trinity is actually one then question arises. Like you said “So then, you have the Lord God of all, and, you have that Lord God in the flesh (Jesus Christ), and, you have the Spirit of that Lord God (the Holy Spirit), but they are all One. The three; God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three aspects of the same one entity, that being the Ever Living Almighty Lord God.”

    God in the flesh (jesus Christ) is the son of himself (Lord God, as they are one)?
    God jesus Christ is the father of himself (as He is Lord God in the flesh) ?

    So there is a series of question but hold on till I get the answers of these..
    Rab e adkhilni Mudkhla Sidqnw wa akhrijni mukhraja sidkanw wja alni milla dunka Sultananasira!!

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    ShadowsCool ShadowsCool's Avatar
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    I think I explained it with my post. Thanks.
    shad·ow ing

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    There is no reasoning i found in the answer of urs. but thanks for responding.you tried to explain By giving argument from unauthentic source which bottom line is this that human are not able to understand the relation between God and jesus Christ or holy spirit?..my dear it was not so difficult but human themself made it difficult! which bible is the exact one in which there is no human mixing? errors and contradictions and irrational approach? I beleive and there is no doubt in my heart and mind that bible was God's book but i also know that God told us that its not saved now as there is human mixing so come towards last book if you want to know directly from Lord. what is the use to read that kind of book which authticity is doubtful from which we have to be very careful to pick the exact thing? If anyone like to challenge that this last book has also been changed then point towards the change or even point at any single mistake.
    i wrote a lot of verses as well explaining the begining of earth, life, universe etc so that who have uptodate knowledge of sciences like cosmology, biology, etc can get the point. Who can be the One who is giving those kind of exact informations fourteen hundred years ago?
    i'll write actually copy paste some of verses from Quran about Mariyam and Jeses Christ explaing everything very rationaly and in full simplicity which every human can understand. if anyone like to read himself there is a full chapter in Quran about it http://www.harunyahya.com/bilgi/kura...rses_container and there are some verses about it in other chapters well.. but i selected some verses from this chapter and will share with u guys..

    Regards
    Last edited by usman.khawar; 05-09-2012 at 07:12 AM.
    Rab e adkhilni Mudkhla Sidqnw wa akhrijni mukhraja sidkanw wja alni milla dunka Sultananasira!!

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    ShadowsCool ShadowsCool's Avatar
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    Excuse me, but you asked me a question and I gave you an answer. Now you mention the Quran. What's that have to do with it? According to the Quran Jesus was a prophet. According to the Bible He was God. I don't get how you say the Bible was tampered with. By whom? And how do you know the Quran has it right? It's your thoughts against mine.
    shad·ow ing

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    Bonafide...Savage. Neo_Sephiroth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    I am trying to understand the meaning of the holy ghost.
    what is the ghost? or what is it refering to?
    I'm thinking the "Ghost" & "Spirit" is just a linguistic thing. A "Ghost" can be considered a "Spirit" and vice-versa.
    "The Lord works from the inside out. The world works from the outside in. The world would take people out of the slums. Christ takes the slums out of the people and then they take themselves out of the slums. Christ changes men, who then changes their environment. The world would shape human behavior, but Christ can change human nature." ~ Ezra Taft Benson

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    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo_Sephiroth View Post
    I'm thinking the "Ghost" & "Spirit" is just a linguistic thing. A "Ghost" can be considered a "Spirit" and vice-versa.
    Hi Sephiroth
    I do not consider 'ghost' and 'spirit' to be the same for the reasons that usually a 'ghost' and according to people and general knowledge is something you see. You have to have seen a figure/image to call it ghost.
    A 'spirit' however (not to compare with spirits/drinks) is something you do not see hence the word spirit/spirited away.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

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    Jethro BienvenuJDC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    Hi Sephiroth
    I do not consider 'ghost' and 'spirit' to be the same for the reasons that usually a 'ghost' and according to people and general knowledge is something you see. You have to have seen a figure/image to call it ghost.
    A 'spirit' however (not to compare with spirits/drinks) is something you do not see hence the word spirit/spirited away.
    Yes, but the difference wasn't the same from the perspective of the various translators. Throughout the New Testament the word used in the original language was pneuma which literally means wind. The Holy Spirit (Ghost) was never seen in any kind of form, but only His affect in His work was ever seen. So, from your perspective of the words, the correct translation would be "Spirit". However, in the original language the words are synonymous.
    Les Miserables,
    Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
    Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.

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    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC View Post
    Yes, but the difference wasn't the same from the perspective of the various translators. Throughout the New Testament the word used in the original language was pneuma which literally means wind. The Holy Spirit (Ghost) was never seen in any kind of form, but only His affect in His work was ever seen. So, from your perspective of the words, the correct translation would be "Spirit". However, in the original language the words are synonymous.
    Hi Bien and thank you again for this post.
    I am not familiar much with the movement that led from the Old becoming New Testament but it sounds interesting.
    Pneuma I must look up as I have never heard of it until now.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

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