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Thread: Big Brother And The Party

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    Ataraxia bazarov's Avatar
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    Arrow Big Brother And The Party

    Big Brother does not exist. He never gets old, he never dies, nobody never saw or will see him. He takes care for Party and the proles. He is worshiped like a God. It's easier to Proles and to everyone to understand that there is someone who controls everything, one person; it's a bit complicated to understand how Party function, which was seen in way O'Brien described it to Winston. Proles adore him and hate the Party and for bad things they will never accuse Big Brother, they will accuse Party. (Similar thing was happening in USSR and China, were Mao and Stalin were worshiped by many; however, everyone hated and was afraid of secret services).

    Party controls everything. You can become Party member only by born; your parents can only be other Party Members. Members are constantly controlled by Thought police to assure no one will ever doubt in Party. They don't have privacy, friends, families or emotions; everything what are they doing is for Party. One hour of privacy is strictly controlled and sex is only allowed for creating new Party members. Telescreens, Thought Police, Two minutes of hate are some instruments which Party use for control.

    Party Members should never have doubts in Party's leadership. Those who have them are caught by Thought Police, tortured and there are two possible results: death or healing. Winston was healed; instead of hate for Big Brother he says: I love Big Brother!!! That's greatest result Party can achieve; and death is the latest option. That's why Winston survived.


    P.S. Any comments and ideas are welcome; unanswered questions also.
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    Hi, I have to do an essay for english and the question is 'Why are Big Brother and the Party so oppressive? Use examples from the text.' thanks for any help

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    Ataraxia bazarov's Avatar
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    How else could they control whole society? True democracy and free will? They had to be kept in constant fear of Police and Party so they would never rebel; Winston and Julia were just an exception which showed that any form of resistance is impossible.
    At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
    During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
    The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.

    To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
    If you need me urgent, send me a PM

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    Orwellian The Atheist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandy5029 View Post
    Hi, I have to do an essay for english and the question is 'Why are Big Brother and the Party so oppressive? Use examples from the text.' thanks for any help
    Your best plan is to re-read the pages which are supposedly taken from Goldstein's book. There's a really good explanation of why it happens and how it works.
    Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."

    Anon

  5. #5
    Is it possible that the prohibiting of sex with all citizens except the proles, has to do with the formation of a new race? Made up of proles and proles alone?

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    Orwellian The Atheist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlWithABook View Post
    Is it possible that the prohibiting of sex with all citizens except the proles, has to do with the formation of a new race? Made up of proles and proles alone?
    Almost, yes.

    The idea is that proles are just the cattle, so let them breed among themselves so they stay at the same level of [lack of] sophistication.
    Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."

    Anon

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    Ataraxia bazarov's Avatar
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    Again, idea of Third Reich.
    At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
    During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
    The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.

    To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
    If you need me urgent, send me a PM

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    Big Brother won.

    Although many people dispise Big Brother, I think they would be lost without it. They party is all the have ever known. There would be no effective form of government. The people all complain about it, but Big brother gives them life. Big Brother always.


    What do you think?

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    Orwellian The Atheist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longsocks View Post
    Although many people dispise Big Brother, I think they would be lost without it. They party is all the have ever known. There would be no effective form of government. The people all complain about it, but Big brother gives them life. Big Brother always.


    What do you think?
    I don't agree that many people despise BB. Winston is one, Julia didn't care until she met him, and O'Brien was lying. Parsons hates himself fot saying "Down with BB". The whole point of 1984 was to show how propaganda works and it's clear from the Two-Minute Hate that people love BB almost universally.

    But you're right on the government - because the Party is the only rule they've known, neither the Proles nor Outer Party members would have a hope in hell of running Oceania.
    Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."

    Anon

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    Smile

    Yes Longsocks, but it is worth looking at the book from another point of view which has been discussed here. That as has been calculated that 99.88% of the people of Oceania were happy. It was only a few polits that dissented and tried to spoil the utopian society. Winston was a paranoid schizophrenic who needed treatment. Totalitarianism is an excellent mechanism for national happiness. What percentage of people are happy under the authoritarian politics of today?
    Nowhere near 99%

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    Ataraxia bazarov's Avatar
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    You could put those 99.98% in your signature...
    At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
    During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
    The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.

    To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
    If you need me urgent, send me a PM

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
    I don't agree that many people despise BB. Winston is one, Julia didn't care until she met him, and O'Brien was lying. Parsons hates himself fot saying "Down with BB". The whole point of 1984 was to show how propaganda works and it's clear from the Two-Minute Hate that people love BB almost universally.

    But you're right on the government - because the Party is the only rule they've known, neither the Proles nor Outer Party members would have a hope in hell of running Oceania.
    I agree that many of them may be happy. But do you think they were actually happy with the system, or BB told them to be happy. Like the ministry of love, they get beaten until they appreciate BB. But im only a student so what do i know.

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    Orwellian The Atheist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longsocks View Post
    I agree that many of them may be happy. But do you think they were actually happy with the system, or BB told them to be happy.
    Genuinely happy. Completely deluded, according to our way of thinking, but happy, nonetheless.

    Quote Originally Posted by longsocks View Post
    Like the ministry of love, they get beaten until they appreciate BB. But im only a student so what do i know.


    "Beaten until they like BB" isn't quite right. The unperson's entire character is changed, it is the ultimate in brainwashing and as Winston shows at the end, it isn't just appreciation of BB, it's love.
    Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."

    Anon

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    Machiavellian. Enjoi.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longsocks View Post
    Although many people dispise Big Brother, I think they would be lost without it. They party is all the have ever known. There would be no effective form of government. The people all complain about it, but Big brother gives them life. Big Brother always.


    What do you think?
    I only agree on one term. If the totalitarianism government has been in power for a good 10+ years. If the government was only in power for a short period of time there still would be people who would remember how life was and a different ruler would come bringing democracy or a more stable form of government.

    Quote Originally Posted by lukgem View Post
    Yes Longsocks, but it is worth looking at the book from another point of view which has been discussed here. That as has been calculated that 99.88% of the people of Oceania were happy. It was only a few polits that dissented and tried to spoil the utopian society. Winston was a paranoid schizophrenic who needed treatment. Totalitarianism is an excellent mechanism for national happiness. What percentage of people are happy under the authoritarian politics of today?
    Nowhere near 99%
    Totalitarianism creates a great sense of nationalism and satisfaction toward your government, but if we had totalitarianism in todays society would we like it? Most likely not, we wouldn't have any say while we currently have a democracy. You wouldn't like not having the power to say no when the government wants to make that bad decision. As i said before i only think totalitarianism would work if: 1.The leader was extremely influential. 2. The leader works fast at removing unsatisfactory mindset. 3. It creates a common place for blame, be it a person or a country, it matters not. 4. All rebellion is silenced and no talk of rebellion reaches the mass public. 5. They can hold power for 10+ years. Then it would take hold and the people would be generally satisfied (99.88% satisfied ) and proud of the government and country they have.
    The wish to acquire more is admittedly a very natural and common thing; and when men succeed in this they are always praised rather than condemned. But when they lack the ability to do so and yet want to acquire more at all costs, they deserve condemnation for their mistakes.

    -Machiavelli

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enjoi. View Post
    1.The leader was extremely influential.
    Every leader is a priori influential, otherwise he would never become a leader.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enjoi. View Post
    3. It creates a common place for blame, be it a person or a country, it matters not.
    That's a problem. People are too smart and intelligent not to realize truth, Proles were stupid, so they couldn't realize it. Some dictators tried that already, and it didn't work with inteligencia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enjoi. View Post
    4. All rebellion is silenced and no talk of rebellion reaches the mass public.
    Then where is it going? To whom?
    At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
    During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
    The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.

    To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
    If you need me urgent, send me a PM

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