Winston and Julia

[bazarov]

Winston Smith is a clerk in one of Party Ministries; in Ministry of Truth. He's job is to change history or simplified; to change written historical documents so they appear just like Party want them to look so they can show that everything what
Party ever did was good and what Party is doing now is maybe even better.

One day he mets Julia, young girl who also works in Party. After she gave him a ''I love you'' note, they start a relationship. For them, it's an act of standing against Party. Every kind of relationship or sex between Party Members is forbidden. In marriage, sex is only allowed for reproduction; for creating new Party members. They shouldn't feel anything for any other mens; only love for Big Brother and Party. Therefore, they are in constant fear of Thought Police but also, they promise each other they they will go with it all till the end, which will undoubtedly come, because everyone gets caught and everyone confess, according to Julia. Winston doesn't agree, even if he confess; that doesn't change his feelings.

Winston and Julia; lovers and rebels, are trying to become members of anti-Party Brotherhood. Winston wants it because of his believe that there was history; that there was something else except Party. Julia is not sure if Winston is right, but rebelion inside of her also wants to act against Party. Of course, everything was a setup by Thought Police end they end up caught in room above antique store; a place of their usual meeting. During period of torture and brainwashing by O'Brien, Smith surrenders intellectually, but keep his idea: he knows he will
eventually be killed, but secretly he intends to continue hating Big Brother an Party - and loving Julia. It's his only victory against Party, just like he said to Julia - he can confess, but they can't change his inner feelings.

However, Smith's resolve to continue loving Julia is burned away when he finally enters Room 101. Smith has a particular horror of rats. Knowing this, O'Brien threatens to let rats devour Smith's face, and in utter desperation he finally begs his torturers that they do this to Julia instead. Same thing happened to Julia. She had to face with probably her greatest fear - multiple rape by Party Members.

Party again won. They successfully killed any human emotions in Winston and Julia and forced them to betray and deny one each other. They are meeting again but they realize that it doesn't matter any more - they don't like each other any more. Their feelings of love are replaced by greater and purer feelings - love for Party and Big Brother and that was the greatest victory Party could achieve. ''I love Big Brother!'' happily said Winston...

[jasmine1991]

In your opinion, were winston and julia foolish for getting involved with one another? If you were Winston or Julia, would it have been worth it to you to have what they had, even though it will probably end in death for them?

[bazarov]

Check Winston and Julia thread.

[emeli351]

I wonder, does anyone know how julia knew winston was a rebel against big brother? If he acted so obviously rebellious one would think the thought police would have caught him by now, but they havent, i dont know how julia when she first made contact with him was sure itd be safe to talk to him when he could havew just as easily been a thought police.

[bazarov]

Love takes risk

[Guernica]

In your opinion, were winston and julia foolish for getting involved with one another? If you were Winston or Julia, would it have been worth it to you to have what they had, even though it will probably end in death for them?

Of course it was dangerous to get involved with eachother... and it could go either way. In Winston's view, he was going to die anyway and probably very soon, so why not live until the end? Julia, on the other hand, wanted to live her life to the fullest, and despised the Party and Big Brother enough to take any possible chance to rebel against them.
Their relationship was at first entirely lust to Winston; but he eventually grew to care for and love Julia. This may have been an even more dangerous, and possibly fate-deciding event.

[Broadwaygirl]

I am about half way through with 1984 and was wandering about the character Julia. So far she is a complex character who turned out to be a different person then who we thought she would be. I was wondering though, does she really want to be involved with the rebellion. She seems only concerned with politics if it has to do with herself. At first I thought she wanted to be a part of it, but when Winston and Julia were talking in their bedroom about the past, Julia told us in a way, she was only interested if it effected her. I was just a bit confused, Thank you.

[CABelieve]

Also, It is Argued that Winston and Julia aren't Truely in love, that their relationship is merely a political act, rebellion against Big Brother. Im only halfway through the book too, but i think its both. It may have started out as merely rebelling, but then turned into love? any comments?

[The Atheist]

Also, It is Argued that Winston and Julia aren't Truely in love, that their relationship is merely a political act, rebellion against Big Brother. Im only halfway through the book too, but i think its both. It may have started out as merely rebelling, but then turned into love? any comments?

Wait till you've finished?

[GirlWithABook]

After the capture and torture of Winston and Julia, what happens to Julia?

[burmesedays]

I've wondered that myself, maybe someday I'll take it upon myself to write all the extra stories that can be built upon characters in 1984. Like Parsons for example, that could be a lengthy short story all in itself. I'd assume the same thing happens to Julia as happens to Winston, she eventually gets shot, when she least expects it. Since the Jones and Rutherford incident, I doubt that they would keep anyone alive who has committed thought crime.

I thought about what Julia's torture would have been, and even after reading the book two times in succession, I still couldn't guess, but rape by inner party members makes absolute perfect sense! It was the only peeve that she even hinted at.

[CeruleanKat]

I personally don't think that Julia and Winston are in love. They make love as a form of rebellion. I also think that the reason they do that is because they don't know what being in love is. They may think they're in love, but wouldn't know if they were because they've never experienced it or saw it for themselves. They live in a society where being "in love" doesn't exist. So, I think that they are not in love, although I wasn't as confident in my answer when Winston called out to Julia and said that he had loved her more than when they were together near the end of the book.

[¡Finallyworked.]

Is julia pregnant at the end of the book. She shows signs of it, she got fatter, feet swelled. Just would like to know.

[The Atheist]

Is julia pregnant at the end of the book. She shows signs of it, she got fatter, feet swelled. Just would like to know.

Definitely not.

Like Winston, she had been completely re-programmed and she would have gone through the same beating & recovery mode that Winston did. She has essentially become a robot. Whereas she retained a slim body in the past from lack of calorific food, we know that once the process is complete inside Miniluv, the victims are fed up and allowed to become healthy.

In Julia's case, she put on some weight.

[delta-fan]

I've wondered that myself, maybe someday I'll take it upon myself to write all the extra stories that can be built upon characters in 1984. Like Parsons for example, that could be a lengthy short story all in itself. I'd assume the same thing happens to Julia as happens to Winston, she eventually gets shot, when she least expects it. Since the Jones and Rutherford incident, I doubt that they would keep anyone alive who has committed thought crime.

I thought about what Julia's torture would have been, and even after reading the book two times in succession, I still couldn't guess, but rape by inner party members makes absolute perfect sense! It was the only peeve that she even hinted at.

I agree with you on Julias torture- I had no idea either, until someone hinted about the rape from inner party members...