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Thread: How do I tie math in to English for middle-school-age students?

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    How do I tie math in to English for middle-school-age students?

    I'd like to hear some ideas that anybody might have for tying Mathematics in to a 6th-10th-grade (actually, *any* grade, really) English classroom. What sorts of materials (books, articles, films, presentations, anything!) might you suggest using?

    I imagine that a lot of the reading would tie-in with history and historical figures, but I'd like to be able to have at least a few lessons up my sleeve that might be able to highlight the importance of that much-loathed subject.

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    Original Poster Buh4Bee's Avatar
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    You may not like this answer, but sometimes we can't tie everything together. It is very hard to tie math and English together. If you think about how the subjects are split up, you'd need to collaborate with the math teacher. Who knows how flexible that person is going to be when trying to cover the curriculum. They will be pressed for time. You will probably want it brought into your class, not the other way around. With that kind of collaboration, there may be more flexibility. Are you thinking about this for an interview or if they ask you in an interview? If so, I'd just emphasize the collaboration piece.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpveedubs View Post
    I'd like to hear some ideas that anybody might have for tying Mathematics in to a 6th-10th-grade (actually, *any* grade, really) English classroom. What sorts of materials (books, articles, films, presentations, anything!) might you suggest using?

    I imagine that a lot of the reading would tie-in with history and historical figures, but I'd like to be able to have at least a few lessons up my sleeve that might be able to highlight the importance of that much-loathed subject.
    Math word problems- break them down step by step, this way they can analyze what is asked of them- can be a good English lesson. I am a special needs assistant in a middle school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KCurtis View Post
    Math word problems- break them down step by step, this way they can analyze what is asked of them- can be a good English lesson. I am a special needs assistant in a middle school.
    I agree with that part, definitely.
    The other part has to do with the way arithmetic is taught. Algebra is the laws of arthmetic properly taught. People are taught to learn artithmetic by rote and repetition. When they get to algebra they hate it because they don't realize that what they already learned is useless for thinking. All the laws of algebra are within arithmetic, but students are not taught associative, commutative, factoring, etc. and etc. They are taught useless tables by rote. Raw memory is the number one enemy of mathematics.
    The third part has to do with symbolism. And for children to grasp it, they must be taught number bases. In base ten, for example, 4+2 = 6 but in base 3, for example, 10+2=12 (6 in base 10), and in the binary, base 2, 100+2=110. You can count in any base you please. In base 4, for example, 4+2=11. And so on. Knowing the use of symbols reveals the independence of quantity from expression.
    Last edited by cafolini; 01-01-2012 at 12:34 PM.

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    As much as I'm for cross subject teaching in school, i don't think math and English can, or should, be tied together. It seems like the attempt would be so convoluted (the above suggestions seems a good example) it would end up confusing students, or just completely shutting them off. English goe great with history, politics, even science ... but I just can't see any coherent link that could be made between the two. I could be wrong.

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    TobeFrank Paulclem's Avatar
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    How about fighting fantasy books? Do you know them? You take a character and they make decisions about which option to take in a fantasy story. If they come across an enemy, then they fight them on the roll of a dice.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Fantasy

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&k...l_7n53zgnvh1_b

    Of course the maths could be quite limited, and I'm unaware of the levels you would teach and the topics you could cover.

    You could adapt the idea though and throw apprpriate puzzles to solve a simple story. These - you may know this - were the precursor of video games back in the 80s.

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    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    Like Paul said, it all depends on the curriculum elements you would like to integrate; however, I am all for Maths and English elements being introduced into different subjects. In real life subjects do not come in nicely labelled, separate boxes, do they?

    There are always opportunities for exploiting... For example, reading and writing large numbers, volume and area calculations (which means shapes, measuring and long multiplication), comparing numbers, average calculations can very easily be introduced into English lessons.

    This does not mean you need to "teach" them all these but provide opportunities for them to practice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulclem View Post
    How about fighting fantasy books? Do you know them? You take a character and they make decisions about which option to take in a fantasy story. If they come across an enemy, then they fight them on the roll of a dice.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Fantasy

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&k...l_7n53zgnvh1_b

    Of course the maths could be quite limited, and I'm unaware of the levels you would teach and the topics you could cover.

    You could adapt the idea though and throw apprpriate puzzles to solve a simple story. These - you may know this - were the precursor of video games back in the 80s.
    Here's the problem I see with this: what does it teach them pertaining to English (or math) and does it do so in a more effective or productive way than keeping the subjects separate?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scheherazade View Post

    There are always opportunities for exploiting... For example, reading and writing large numbers, volume and area calculations (which means shapes, measuring and long multiplication), comparing numbers, average calculations can very easily be introduced into English lessons.
    Like what, though? That's what the OP was asking. I'm stumped as to specifics.

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    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    Here is an example:

    While teaching different types of text, I asked the students to write informative pieces on life-long bags offered for sale by different supermarkets. They compared the prices, the material they were made of and their strength, the weight they could carry as well as their volume... All required various use of their numeracy skills.

    At the end, they put their findings into an informative article... Which was the main aim of the lesson.

    Later on, they compared Easter Eggs (weight/calories/sugar/price as well size) on sale in a similar manner and wrote a persuasive piece.
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    Interesting.

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    As I see it, math is just another language. There is no problem in translating math to English, or any other language. The big difference is that one page of math would take many pages of English. Of course there are many aspects of English that are not suitable to be translated into math. But there is not a thing in math that cannot be, however painfully, put in English.
    So integrating English with math is a matter of being able to speak math in English.

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    TobeFrank Paulclem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi View Post
    Here's the problem I see with this: what does it teach them pertaining to English (or math) and does it do so in a more effective or productive way than keeping the subjects separate?
    There's a debate that been going on over here for some time about how to teach maths. he accepted view is that maths exists as a seperate entity as a truth unto itself, and previously it was taught in this way without reference to anything else.

    As a result a visual learner like myself was stuck in a magnolia classroom struggling and not succeeding with abstracts.

    The current view of those who are trying to improve the quality of maths teaching is that it is not an abstract self evident truth, but is the result of human endeavour in maths in a particular context.

    So one way of looking at maths is to include Babylonian base 60 as part of the lesson. Base 60 is the foundation of our time - seconds and minutes. Our learners struggle with time questions at a certain level. Giving a bit of history on Babylonian base 60 might just reinforce that concept of 60 seconds/ minutes by providing an interesting stream of though with which to refer to.

    As for the fighting fantasy games - well i don't really know the age of the kids and how suitable it is, but a lot can be gained by fun. Playing and replaying is sutrely better than completing a sheet of boring algorithms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scheherazade View Post
    Here is an example:

    While teaching different types of text, I asked the students to write informative pieces on life-long bags offered for sale by different supermarkets. They compared the prices, the material they were made of and their strength, the weight they could carry as well as their volume... All required various use of their numeracy skills.

    At the end, they put their findings into an informative article... Which was the main aim of the lesson.

    Later on, they compared Easter Eggs (weight/calories/sugar/price as well size) on sale in a similar manner and wrote a persuasive piece.
    This is excellent, we do this in middle school also. And students need this to take the MCAS, which incorporates math and english into word problems and they MUST write a very short paragraph explaining their results. They must be able to read the word problems and decipher what is asked. One math problem is a page long.

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    Teach them to write proofs, maybe. Or if they're not ready to do that they could write solutions. If it's an elementary level geometry class, you could have them write detailed instructions for compass constructions, etc. Being able to communicate your ideas well is one of the most important skills in math.

    However, this makes the assumption that it's not an entirely exercise-oriented class ... it would be extraordinarily tedious to write solutions for computational problems and basic algebraic word problems. There should be some creativity, some artistry, involved.

    Try reading some problem solving blogs, or math lectures and essays; for the most part it's all expository writing.

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    The teaching of algebra without a previous elementary course in Eucledian geometry is a brutality. It has no place in experience. So much for the more advanced analytic geometry without trigonometry, or ridiculous calculus without analytic geometry. Knowledge builds on knowledge, not on memory.
    Last edited by cafolini; 01-12-2012 at 05:44 PM.

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