Lack of bread and Revolution?

Fraser · 07-23-2009, 11:12 AM

I was wondering if anyone could help me out with a section of 1984 I'm possibly misremembering.

I seem to recal a discussion about how the proles are only ever moved to revolution when they have no bread, i.e. when they have no choice but to revolt if they want to survive.

I've tried searching the text of the novel online but with little luck. Does anybody else remember this passage? And could anybody point me towards? It's always possible I've read this in another of Orwell's books or even melded it from two different passages (I did find a few lines about the Lows not being motivated to revolt by oppression alone for example) but if anybody could give me a definative answer either way I'd very much appreciate it

The Atheist · 07-23-2009, 01:47 PM

I suspect you're tying two unrelated things together as I don't know it and I can just about quote the whole book by heart.

I could, however, be wrong!

alpha1 · 07-29-2009, 03:10 AM

You are not misremembering. I have this book at home and have read it many times. There are only three instances that I can recall. Hope they are what you remember:
First, (Chapter 1, Part 7) Winston recalls having witnessed a fight at the market which he believed to be the start of a prole revolution against Big Brother, but was only a fight over saucepans. He thought, "Why was it that they could never shout like that about anything that mattered?" He wrote in his journal, "Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."
Secondly, (Chapter 2, Part 9) Winson is reading Chapter 1 - Ignorance is Strength, from the book of the Brotherhood, which states that there have only ever been three types of people in recorded history, the High, the Middle, and the Low (proles). The exact quote here is: "The aim of the Low, when they have an aim - for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives - is to abolish all distinctions and create a society in which all men shall be equal."
Finally, (Chapter 3, Part 3) O'Brien destroys all hope, when he declares to Winston, "The proletarians will never revolt, not in a thousand years or a million. They cannot."

[I am quoting from the 1961 copyrighted version of the 1984 by George Orwell, published by Dutton Signet. pp. 62, 179, 233.]

The Atheist · 07-29-2009, 04:52 AM

Yes, but that isn't what was asked. It confirms that lack of food isn't enough to start a rebellion.

Fraser · 07-29-2009, 07:08 PM

Thanks for the responces. I'm quotations alpha1 points to are in all probability what I'm think of, I think I'm just embellishing them with something I've read elsewhere...I just wish I could remember what it was...

alpha1 · 07-30-2009, 04:28 AM

Don't snipe at me, Atheist. Not only are my comments exactly what was asked for, they were more than you, who can 'quote the whole book by heart' could remember.

The Atheist · 07-30-2009, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpha1

Don't snipe at me, Atheist. Not only are my comments exactly what was asked for, they were more than you, who can 'quote the whole book by heart' could remember.

I'm not sniping at you at all.

The question was asked as to whether the book contained an idea that deprivation would make the proles rebel.

The three quotes you put up say exactly the opposite, which is what I pointed out. Try reading them again for yourself, especially in the context of Fraser's response where he sees them the same way.

Touchy.

07-23-2009, 11:12 AM	#1
Fraser Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 2	Lack of bread and Revolution? I was wondering if anyone could help me out with a section of 1984 I'm possibly misremembering. I seem to recal a discussion about how the proles are only ever moved to revolution when they have no bread, i.e. when they have no choice but to revolt if they want to survive. I've tried searching the text of the novel online but with little luck. Does anybody else remember this passage? And could anybody point me towards? It's always possible I've read this in another of Orwell's books or even melded it from two different passages (I did find a few lines about the Lows not being motivated to revolt by oppression alone for example) but if anybody could give me a definative answer either way I'd very much appreciate it

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07-23-2009, 01:47 PM	#2
The Atheist Orwellian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The George Orwell sub-forum Posts: 2,092	I suspect you're tying two unrelated things together as I don't know it and I can just about quote the whole book by heart. I could, however, be wrong!

07-29-2009, 03:10 AM	#3
alpha1 alpha1 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Weymouth, MA Posts: 3	You are not misremembering. I have this book at home and have read it many times. There are only three instances that I can recall. Hope they are what you remember: First, (Chapter 1, Part 7) Winston recalls having witnessed a fight at the market which he believed to be the start of a prole revolution against Big Brother, but was only a fight over saucepans. He thought, "Why was it that they could never shout like that about anything that mattered?" He wrote in his journal, "Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious." Secondly, (Chapter 2, Part 9) Winson is reading Chapter 1 - Ignorance is Strength, from the book of the Brotherhood, which states that there have only ever been three types of people in recorded history, the High, the Middle, and the Low (proles). The exact quote here is: "The aim of the Low, when they have an aim - for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives - is to abolish all distinctions and create a society in which all men shall be equal." Finally, (Chapter 3, Part 3) O'Brien destroys all hope, when he declares to Winston, "The proletarians will never revolt, not in a thousand years or a million. They cannot." [I am quoting from the 1961 copyrighted version of the 1984 by George Orwell, published by Dutton Signet. pp. 62, 179, 233.]

07-29-2009, 04:52 AM	#4
The Atheist Orwellian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The George Orwell sub-forum Posts: 2,092	Yes, but that isn't what was asked. It confirms that lack of food isn't enough to start a rebellion.

07-29-2009, 07:08 PM	#5
Fraser Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 2	Thanks for the responces. I'm quotations alpha1 points to are in all probability what I'm think of, I think I'm just embellishing them with something I've read elsewhere...I just wish I could remember what it was...

07-30-2009, 04:28 AM	#6
alpha1 alpha1 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Weymouth, MA Posts: 3	Don't snipe at me, Atheist. Not only are my comments exactly what was asked for, they were more than you, who can 'quote the whole book by heart' could remember.