Shelley question

[angryTurtle]

Hello

Can I ask why Shelley, or Red Shelley as he is sometimes called, is referred to as an atheist when, in his Defence of Poetry, he states that man's imagination is only a reflection of God's?

Many thanks for any clarification.

Turtle

[mono]

Hi, angryTurtle, and welcome to the forum.
Indeed, Percy Shelley renowned himself, and even got himself into some trouble, with proclaiming himself as an atheist; we can see this bluntly in his first novel, Zastrozzi. Unfortunately, I have not read his "A Defence of Poetry," but have intended to for some time. I would love to help, but could you quote the context - perhaps the paragraph you quoted?

[blazeofglory]

Shelly was an emotional writer. Of course he was of the romantic genre, and it does not suffice to say he is just a romantic poet. He was more than that. He was fabulously inventive. He was a revolutionary, and his poems voiced something that remained unvoiced, and he listened to the agonies of the agonized, the pains of the pained, and the sufferings of the sufferer.

He was an iconoclastic poet. He in his short life time did something others could not accomplish in their prolonged life span.

Shelly was really incomparable. He had regality and majesty in his poetry, and of course there were great elements of revolutions, rebelliousness against the tyrannies set against the poor.

He was an angry man. He disdained the social segmentation and abhorred the social ills that created the great gap between the rich and the poor.

[JBI]

It's the sense that imagination is the capability of creation, and to imagine a world from chaos.

As for his personal beliefs, he was most certainly an atheist.

[JCamilo]

Yeah, when he used God or Divine images, he is using them as a metaphor. It is like claiming he believe in greek gods because he used them in his texts. You will find other atheists that still use the christian themes, because it is part of our culture, either they believe or not.

[Rococo]

Originally Posted by blazeofglory

Shelly was an emotional writer. Of course he was of the romantic genre, and it does not suffice to say he is just a romantic poet. He was more than that. He was fabulously inventive. He was a revolutionary, and his poems voiced something that remained unvoiced, and he listened to the agonies of the agonized, the pains of the pained, and the sufferings of the sufferer.

He was an iconoclastic poet. He in his short life time did something others could not accomplish in their prolonged life span.

Shelly was really incomparable. He had regality and majesty in his poetry, and of course there were great elements of revolutions, rebelliousness against the tyrannies set against the poor.

He was an angry man. He disdained the social segmentation and abhorred the social ills that created the great gap between the rich and the poor.

Such a beautiful thing to say! I think that this aspect of Shelley's poetry is so often (and sadly) overlooked: that of the revolutionary, visionary young man who's views were decades ahead of his time.

As for the question of Shelley's athiesm, it is odd that he claimed man's imagination is only a reflection of God's. It may well be metaphoric. I'm pretty sure there's no doubt that he WAS an atheist: he recieved a lot of stick for professing such views - to the point that i believe he would not have put up with such awful treatment for something he didn't really believe in (ie. the nonexistence of God)

I can't remember where i read it...some essay on Shelley...but the critic (i wish i could remember their name!) argued that Shelley's views were perhaps more Pantheistic rather than pure Atheism. He saw God (or perhap it would be better to say - "he saw something divine") in nature - i'm thinking specifically of "Mont Blanc" at the moment, especially. Perhaps he meant that man's imagination can merely interpret what he sees, and therefore is a reflection of this Pantheistic idea of God existant in everything in one's environment etc.

...or at least what i think Shelley meant. I don't know. Shelley's work is practically saturated with philosophical references, politics and ideals - it's so personal to him as the writer, but can be interpreted in vastly different ways by every reader. Which is one of the many reasons it is so wonderful!!

[mono]

Originally Posted by Rococo

As for the question of Shelley's athiesm, it is odd that he claimed man's imagination is only a reflection of God's. It may well be metaphoric. I'm pretty sure there's no doubt that he WAS an atheist: he recieved a lot of stick for professing such views - to the point that i believe he would not have put up with such awful treatment for something he didn't really believe in (ie. the nonexistence of God)

I can't remember where i read it...some essay on Shelley...but the critic (i wish i could remember their name!) argued that Shelley's views were perhaps more Pantheistic rather than pure Atheism. He saw God (or perhap it would be better to say - "he saw something divine") in nature - i'm thinking specifically of "Mont Blanc" at the moment, especially. Perhaps he meant that man's imagination can merely interpret what he sees, and therefore is a reflection of this Pantheistic idea of God existant in everything in one's environment etc.

I would like to read that essay, if you ever come across the name again, Rococo. Contrary to the essayist, I would not go as far to say that Shelley preached pantheism, yet he did not bluntly advocate for atheism as bluntly as he could have, especially in his poetry. Especially among some of the first-generation Romantics (Coleridge, Wordsworth, Blake), carrying on to poets like Byron and Keats, it seemed a common trend to appreciate the sacredness of all objects, primarily nature; the Transcendentalist poets (Emerson, Thoreau, Channing) took this sacred aspect of nature very seriously, too. Except in cases of new-age Universalist interpretation, I cannot think of any cases of Shelley enveloping God, as a religious figure, into anything; this essayist sounds like s/he has made quite a stretch in interpretation, based upon the trends of the contemporary poetry of Shelley's time. If Shelley sounded like a Pantheist by his poetry, it would easily make every other Romantic and Transcendentalist one, too, when I think they only emphasized the sacredness of objects around them.