A Profound Look Into The Iliad

[kayj]

I would like some feedback on the thesis I wrote for the following passage.

Cattle and fat sheep can all be had for the raiding,
tripods all for the trading, and tawny-headed stallions.
But a man's life breath cannot come back again—
no raiders in force, no trading brings it back,
once it slips through a man’s clenched teeth.

Mother tells me,
the immortal goddess Thetis with her glistening feet,
that two fates bear me on to the day of death.
If I hold out here and I lay siege to Troy,
my journey home is gone, but my glory never dies.
If I voyage back to the fatherland I love,
my pride, my glory dies…

It is a widely accepted idea that we hold little if any power in the shaping of our destinies; our destinies are predetermined by divine forces such as the will of a god or goddess. In Homer's The Iliad, most mortals are given but a single route in their fated path, some mortals, such as Achilles, are given directions to a road that diverges and is allowed to choose his own path. Homer provides us with information of how the poem is to end, and gives many hints along the way because the importance of the outcome comes second to the reaction of the characters that also share knowledge of what is to come. Knowledge of how you will meet your doom could be quite devastating but despite this fact, many characters in the epic do not wait for time to come, but see it as an opportunity to achieve immortality in history and fight courageously in the battlefield for something they believe in. Although, ultimately, Achilles decides to rejoin the frontlines of the battle and slaughter many Trojan soldiers without mercy, he often contemplates which decision is the right one for him; to live a long life of little meaning by returning home to Phthia, or to continue fighting for his country alongside his comrades who depend on him and be remembered eternally as a man of glory.

Courage is not the absence of fear, but the presence of fear yet the will to go on. After the death of Patroclus, death is no longer a concern to Achilles, he has accepted his fate and is willing to die an untimely death so that he can honor his fallen comrade and win glory for himself. Another parallel to Achilles character and his decision to act despite knowing it would cause his own death, is Hector, who knows that if he steps onto the battlefield he will eventually die in battle and Troy, leaderless, will fall. They will be forever remembered as heroes who acted courageously in the face of death, thus making this war, much more than just an imperial conquest. It is evident that the Trojan War is but a location for the heroes to prove themselves in the making of history since Homer deliberately begins the poem nine years into the war and days before the conclusion of it.

[bluevictim]

kayj, thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Fate and destiny is indeed an important theme of the Iliad. I agree that the choice presented to Achilles, between early death with eternal fame and long life in obscurity, is very important for what it reveals about Achilles. I also agree that courage is a trait in abundance among the heroes in the poem.

I don't think, however, that any of the other (mortal) heroes in the Iliad besides Achilles knew their fate beforehand. Hector didn't know he was to be killed until the final moments of his climactic battle with Achilles.

Here are a couple of other famous passages that I think are related to the points you make:

In book 12, lines 310 - 328, Sarpedon encourages Glaukos by saying that they are obligated to fight because of the honor they receive from the Lykians, and they might as well risk death attempting glorious feats in battle because they know they are going to die anyways. Some insight here can be gleaned about why the Homeric heroes fight courageously, and about how their understanding of fate affects their actions.

In book 16, lines 426 - 461, Zeus and Hera contemplate the possibility of saving Sarpedon from his imminent death. They ultimately decide against it and Sarpedon is killed by Patroclus. This passage is famous because it indicates that even Zeus feels some constraint from fate.

[kayj]

Splendid. Yes, The Iliad is a timeless classic. I really like your insights and I can tell you really enjoyed reading this book. I would love to hear more of your thoughts and gain a deeper understanding of what the poem is about. If you have AIM or MSN that would be great. I would also love to hear the thoughts of anyone else who takes pleasure in reading this epic poem and if you would like I could share some of my own thoughts as well. I am eager to hear from you.

[bluevictim]

Yes, the Iliad is one of my favorites. I don't have AIM or MSN, but I'd love to talk more about the poem, and I think it would be great to do that in these forums right here at LitNet, especially because there doesn't usually seem to be a lot of interest in the Iliad around here.

[kayj]

EDIT: Nevermind.

[kayj]

I was unsure about the last thesis and I thought that maybe this one would be more appropriate. I think that I am on the right track and that maybe a little help from you would help me get this idea off the ground.

And let Apollo drive Prince Hector back to battle,
breathe power back in his lungs, make him forget
the pains that rack his heart. Let him whip the Achaeans
in headlong panic rout and roll them back once more,
Tumbling back on the oar-swept ships of Peleus’ son Achilles.
And he, he will launch his comrade Patroclus into action
and glorious Hector will cut him down with a spear
in front of Troy, once Patroclus has slaughtered
whole battalions of strong young fighting men
and among them all, my shining son Sarpedon.
But then – enraged for Patroclus –
brilliant Achilles will bring Prince Hector down.
And then, from that day on, I’ll turn the tide of war:
back the fighting goes, no stopping it, ever, all the way
till Achaean armies seize the beetling heights of Troy
through Athena’s grand design.

Fate, it seems is predetermined by a force that far ascends the control of mortals and immortals alike. Throughout the epic poem, The Iliad, by the great bard, Homer, the importance and inevitability of fate is stressed. Although it is commonly believed that the gods are the ones that decide the fate of all things that dwell on the ancient world, it seems that they may be but the ones that implement and uphold the laws of fate. It does, however, seem although the gods are to abide by the laws of fate, they seem to have the authority to see it through however they wish, as long as the outcome is essentially the same. While it seems that gods are supposed to be these perfect beings, Homer portrays them as being just as human as we are when we see their actions in runtime. Throughout the course of the poem, there seems to be a lot of civil unrest among the Olympians, each of the two factions wanting their team to triumph and the other to falter. Let this essay, serve as an expose for the gods who we worship like Hollywood celebrities.

It is evident that all throughout the epic that Achilles and several gods are aware of where fate is going to take the two armies. Fate, I suppose is supposed to give a general guideline for how things are to turn out and the structure must be strictly followed; fate sets a time frame for which all things are to happen and approximately how it is supposed to happen. Zeus, supreme ruler of Mount Olympus, governs the laws of fate and it is up to him to ensure that everything happens at the right time and that it all fits into the grand scheme of it; it is also his responsibility to set it in motion. After the peace negotiations had failed between the two parties, Zeus sent Athena to convince the Trojan archer, Pandaros, to reinitiate the war by shooting an arrow at Menelaus. Athena was also responsible for the clever ruse that caused Hector to stop fleeing from Achilles and enter into the combat that would be his last. Zeus’ promise and implementation of what Thetis’ favor suggest that Zeus does not exactly have his hands tied; since her request to punish the Achaeans only changes a small detail as to how things will happen and the end result will not change, he grants her wish. It is implied that the job only requires that the outcome must stay true to the laws of fate, however Zeus intends to make it happen, seems to be totally up to him. Zeus is the devoted upholder of the laws, this and his authority over all the other gods are what keep Olympus from becoming chaotic, even though sometimes it seems that it comes close to it. It is mentioned a couple times that Zeus inflicts harsh punishments upon those who violate the natural order of things; Sleep was nearly sunk into the sea and Hera was strung in midair when they tried to tamper with the fate of Heracles.

It is totally up to Zeus to decide how all things occur to reach its end destination or outcome. Zeus, fearing for his son, Sarpedon’s life, was tempted to rescue him from cruel death at the hands of Patroclus, but he was reminded by hero that he too is subject to the law, not above it. However, not all the immortals that inhabited Mount Olympus felt the same obligations to follow the rules as they often broke the rules in order to grant the upper hand to their favored team. Hera, whose favorite cities were Sparta, Argos, and Mycenae, obviously favored the Achaeans and was willing to bend the rules in order to help them gain the upper hand.
Although we often see the gods more something of a different breed than we are, they are but our divine counterparts; they are also prone to experience emotions such as grief, sympathy or bias and unfairness of which they are often seen acting upon. Aphrodite watched the battle between Paris and Menelaus, which was supposed to resolve the conflict between the nations, and just as Paris was about to meet his doom, he was whisked away by the goddess. Prior to the beginning of the poem, Paris had judged that Aphrodite was the most beautiful among the goddesses in The Judgment of Paris and thus had won the favor of the lovely goddess. Alternatively, while Patroclus was experiencing his aristeia and was in battle against Sarpedon, Zeus feels pity for his son who is about to meet his death, and almost acts on it and saves him but doesn’t.

The status of the Trojan War seems to have created division among the gods, who want to see their favored nation obtain glory. The citizens of Olympus have created two factions of diehard fans: one in favor of the Achaeans (Athena, Hera, Poseidon and Hephaestus) and the other which favors the Trojans (Apollo, Ares, and Aphrodite).

Although it is currently incomplete, I believe that this could become a masterpiece worthy of the book that inspired it.

[bluevictim]

Interesting post, kayj.

The role of the gods in the Iliad is a very interesting subject. There is another thread here discussing how the help of the gods affect evaluation of the warriors' heroism. Controversy over how the gods should be interpreted goes back to antiquity. I don't think there is really a consistent theology in the Iliad. As you point out, sometimes a god intervenes, and sometimes not, and the only reason behind it seems to be the ambiguous catch-all concept of fate.

I'm a little puzzled by your quip that we worship gods like Hollywood celebrities. I don't know many people who have much interest in Zeus' gang, and worship of modern gods doesn't seem very similar to the treatment of Hollywood celebrities to me.

[Comenius67]

kayj,

I started an "Iliad Reading Group" on facebook that I would love for you to join if you are a facebook member. You can search me by name on fb - "Greg Millsaps" - and if there are several profiles with that name I am the one in Mexico. Thanks!

[prendrelemick]

For a bit of back ground. Its not "fate" that zeus contemplates cheating, but "The Fates".

"The Fates" or "Parcae" in Latin, or "Moirae" in Greek, were three old and ugly maids who spent their days spinning out, measureing, and cutting off, the thread of life for every mortal.
They were called Clotho (who held the spindle). Lachesis (who wound the thread on to the distaff). and most famously Atropos who cuts it off with her fatal shears.

Once these Fates have measured out a person's life neither God nor man can alter it, including Zeus. Ironically their collective name means "To spare", but they never spared anyone.

Zeus also has a pair of scales that he holds up to decide the outcome of certain battles, these he always obeys however sadly.

Your thesis is looking good by the way.