Macbeth Tragic Flaw

[scott_C]

So I just began working on a paper about tragic figures in Macbeth. By far the most common tragic figure mentioned is Macbeth, and the general consensus ( at least in all the books I've checked and websites I've been on) is that his tragic flaw was ambition.

Now I don't think I agree with that though, if you look at the first 3 murders he commits ( Duncan, the chambermen)
Duncan he killed basically because his wife wanted him to and taunted him with accusations of being a coward. He then killed the chambermen because he was afraid they would claim to know nothing and blame would be placed on Macbeth.

Of course the murders after these seem to be more out of raw ambition ( esp. Banquo and the attempt on Fleance). But is ambition really what started Macbeth down the tragic path? I don't exactly know what I am trying to ask here, I am just wondering if there is a better argument for or against Macbeth's tragic flaw being ambition.

[Gladys]

Originally Posted by scott_C

By far the most common tragic figure mentioned is Macbeth

More so than Lady Macduff and, perhaps, her son?

Originally Posted by scott_C

...his tragic flaw was ambition.

You seem to overlook that the witches caused Macbeth to think of the throne before Lady Macbeth. If not ambition, why does Macbeth gradually morph from a rational man to an amoral beast? Why else does he persist, even after Lady Macbeth is a spent force, since he has misgivings from the first?

[scott_C]

Originally Posted by Gladys

More so than Lady Macduff and, perhaps, her son?

You seem to overlook that the witches caused Macbeth to think of the throne before Lady Macbeth. If not ambition, why does Macbeth gradually morph from a rational man to an amoral beast? Why else does he persist, even after Lady Macbeth is a spent force, since he has misgivings from the first?

I don't know I mean the murders of Lady Macduff and her son are tragic, are they really the tragic figures as my english teacher defines them though? - Characters with a tragic flaw that leads to their downfall- I mean what flaw did Macduff and her son really have, they were related to Macduff?

As for your second point thanks for your help, I did not consider that. But what if I made Macbeth's tragic flaw as something related to his need to impress/ trust women ( poorly stated I know). I would argue that he becomes amoral and senseless because the witches told him he had nothing to fear, and therefore is willing to kill everyone because there is no way a wood could move or a man could be born of something other than a woman. When he finds out he has been misled by the witches isn't this his mistrust/ trust of women leading to his downfall. Am I making a valid argument or am I way off base here? Again thanks for your help.

[Gladys]

You're right that Lady Macduff and her son lack a 'tragic flaw'.

If Macbeth's 'need to impress/ trust women' is a factor, where in the text is this need displayed, apart from showing his wife that he's a real man? You would need to provide several quotes in support. Have you such quotes? In relation to the witches, justification may be impossible.

You say Macbeth 'becomes amoral and senseless because the witches told him he had nothing to fear' but this deterioration is gradual, reaching its zenith at the slaughter in Fife castle. At first, he is self-confident, ambitious or envious of Duncan, and wishing to placate and impress his wife. Later, Macbeth strives to retain power. He strives for self-preservation, freedom, pride, and loyalty to his ailing wife. Macbeth seems angry at the world.

The 'tragic flaw' leads Macbeth to murder Duncan. Does it contribute to the later tyranny and death of Macbeth himself?

[Abdiel]

Sorry to disagree, but there's really no such thing as a tragic flaw. Shakespeare NEVER wrote a single tragedy with the thought that his protagonist must have one flaw in him that'll be his downfall. The concept of a tragic flaw is something critics and scholars have come up with over time to try and make sense of Shakespeare's tragedies by having a single unifying concept of why his tragic protagonists fall.

However, why would Shakespeare write like that? Why have only one main flaw which always leads to his protagonist's downfall? It seems so unrealistic that Shakespeare would limit himself like that, when humans are so complex and their flaws so many. And we're talking about Shakespeare here: his characters are much too human and real to be flawed in only one major way.

Think about it: did Macbeth fall because of ambition? How? Once Macbeth became king, where did his ambition go? How can he be ambitious when he's king? Where did his tragic flaw go? A tragic flaw seems to imply some inherent and internal characteristic which is part of a protagonist's very being and personality, something which lasts throughout their WHOLE life, but where does Macbeth's ambition go to when he's king? He doesn't seem ambitious at the end, but rather bored and indifferent to life ("creeps in this petty pace from day to day" or "out, out brief candle!") and he seems willing to die even.

Just ask yourself: do you have a single tragic flaw, or just many flaws? Does any man, no matter how great and noble?

And here's a helpful link on the problem of the tragic flaw:

http://www.jstor.org/pss/3721422

[idiosynchrissy]

I agree with Abdiel in that Macbeth had many flaws, as we all do. However, I don't think all flaws are "tragic." It seems to me that Macbeth's tragic flaw was his weakness. Sure the witches planted the seed in his mind of possibly becoming king, but his wife bullied him to get her way. He never stood his ground or embraced any type of moral or ethical convictions. By the end, her dream had become his because, in my opinion, he was too spineless to have his own.

[Gladys]

Originally Posted by Abdiel

And here's a helpful link on the problem of the tragic flaw

Sadly, Abdiel, we have access only to the first page of your JSTOR link, which provides just a title.

Originally Posted by idiosynchrissy

By the end, her dream had become his because, in my opinion, he was too spineless to have his own.

I agree. The flaw is tragic in that Macbeth, before the regicide, is the most honoured hero entertaining the king himself, with some prospect of succeeding to the throne after Duncan. Macbeth is a great man with a great future!

After Duncan's murder, Macbeth is truly a lost soul. Where did his ambition go? To oblivion, along with all his moral values, except perhaps, love for his wife. Strange that.

[Abdiel]

Originally Posted by Gladys

Sadly, Abdiel, we have access only to the first page of your JSTOR link, which provides just a title.

I agree. The flaw is tragic in that Macbeth, before the regicide, is the most honoured hero entertaining the king himself, with some prospect of succeeding to the throne after Duncan. Macbeth is a great man with a great future!

After Duncan's murder, Macbeth is truly a lost soul. Where did his ambition go? To oblivion, along with all his moral values, except perhaps, love for his wife. Strange that.

Oh sorry about the link. It used to work when I was still in university because our university paid for that website. And I understand what you're saying Gladys: Macbeth is a hero before the regicide and when he gives up his morals to become king that's the real tragedy. But there are so many other powerful and important factors which drive him to kill Duncan that it's unwise to say that ambition is the biggest one. Lady Macbeth, the witches, and perhaps some inexorable destiny play just as huge a role.

[kelby_lake]

Macbeth is ambitious but he cannot plan or really put his dreams into practice. he is 'without the illness that should attend it (ambition)'

[Gladys]

Originally Posted by Abdiel

...it's unwise to say that ambition is the biggest one. Lady Macbeth, the witches, and perhaps some inexorable destiny play just as huge a role.

Yes, Kelby_lake, Macbeth does seem to lack a cold-blooded, calculating ambition.

He's something of a romantic, a dreamer, an aesthete. He is flattered by Lady Macbeth, Banquo and the witches. He is wishes to please the wife he loves so much. Perhaps, he thrives on the approval of friends. He stumbles, almost blindly, into regicide - with so little reflection.

The impressionable dreamer stumbles into hell.

[shuvro]

'vaulting ambition'

[Shoesy]

Could perhaps Macbeth's "Tragic Flaw" be his fear which is constant through out the play. Although Macbeth is potrayed as being a brave warrior I believe that it is in fact fear which drives many of his future actions.

Take for example his first murder; Duncan. This is not motivated by Macbeth's ambition as he clearly says "No spur to prick the sides of my intent", indicating that he has no reason to murder Duncan and decides against it. It is only when he believes his manhood is in question if he does not murder Duncan does he allow the fear of this shame to drive him to murder Duncan. It is fear of the loss of the respect of his wife and fear of betraying the pact of success that he has made with her that drives him to commit this horrible act. Also linked to the murder of Duncan, Macbeth murders the two groomsmen because he is afraid that if he does not he will be blamed for Duncan's murder.

Macbeth's continued murderous rampage through out the play is due to fear also. He kills Banquo because he "fear(s) thy (Banquo's) nature" meaning that he believes and fears that Banquo will work out and infrom the others that he has killed Duncan. He fears the consequences of the regicide he has committed and this drives him to fear and kill his close friend Banquo. He also attempts to have Fleance killed because he sees him as a threat to his position on the thrown.

In conclusion to this semi formal response Macbeth rocks!

[Gladys]

Originally Posted by Shoesy

Could perhaps Macbeth's "Tragic Flaw" be his fear which is constant through out the play?

Fear makes less sense at the beginning. Why is Macbeth so vulnerable to temptation and too fearful to resist? Why does he have to succeed, to prove himself.

His essential flaw is more likely shame, guilt, pride, inferiority...but over what?