jackyyyy,
I have no idea what you are on (about).
jackyyyy,
I have no idea what you are on (about).
At first I thought they were random, like some of the early discussion. However, I don't think so any more. These two are definitely linked:
Gentlemen, which of these three vegetables: tomatoes, pumpkins, or squash, will your wives say most represents the part of their anatomy that has come to sag the most since your wedding night.
and
Bachelor number three is a sales manager who collects Disney memorabilia.To have two of seven game show quotes from an infinite possibility of media quotes is too much of a coincidence. Notice too that one is a bachelor's and the other is a newlywed's show.
These two also seem to be linked in that they are apparently referring to a crime:
There was no blood or anything but when I got there she was turning blue.
and
Missing coed found slain.
Has anyone been able to track down whether these are actual quotes from a show, a crime show for instance? Otherwise we will probably have to assume they are news blurbs and may or may not be referring to the same crime, if the first one is a crime at all. The first one may be just a medical emergency.
The last one of the encyclopedia seems out of place. It's listings mirror the listings of the poem body, but there I see complete randomness in its selection. Actually this is the third time a listing is made in the poem: (1) the vegetable listing, (2) the body of the poem as an assembling of media quotes and (3) the encyclopedia listing.
Another observation is that none of the listings are advertising quotes. All apparently from radio or TV programs.
LET THERE BE LIGHT
"Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena
My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/
He could have listened to the tv, but don't they play some tv shows on the radio?Originally Posted by Virgil
I'm on (about) paint.
Art is art.
I guess so. But is there a point to why it would/should only be radio?
LET THERE BE LIGHT
"Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena
My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/
They can all be picked up from a radio, plus the WABC. Billboards might write WABC, but tv, no.
Just checked it, WABC is on tv.
This is advertising to me. What else could it be?All this in Encyclopedia Britannica III: American Indians, Louis "Satchmo" Armstrong, The Reproductive System, Poisonous Animals and Plants, Atomic Energy, The Circus, Abominable Snowman, Napoleon and More…
Art is art.
"A world standard in reference since 1768" - is the slogan of the Encyclopedia Britannica website. "Standard"? and "world standard"? Isn't that arrogance or what?
If you are right Virgil (and I think you are) then I think this is a list of the things that have been standardised by commerce. Each of them have depths of meaning that are unexplored or ignored in this kind of referencing. And because this has actually become close to a "world standard" (because most people have no time to read more than 20 words about something), their true meanings are at risk of being lost forever. '...' means either 'the list goes on', or, as Unnamable suggested, life goes on - what can we do? - What do you think?
I was just wondering, when I searched for things about "we control the horizontal", almost everything that came up had "we control the horizontal; we control the vertical" going together. So why only "horizontal" here?
Last edited by tn2743; 04-12-2006 at 09:42 AM.
Do you mean that some of the early discussion was random or that some of the early discussion supposed that the poem was random?
These emerging linked themes are not simply those associated with game shows – aren’t they also the recurrent themes of Literature (Love and Death?)? Is Wachtel suggesting that the language of these media bytes has replaced the language of his title?
Interesting in the context – someone is turning blue but it’s just a medical emergency. Nothing to see here – it’s not as if it’s a murder or anything really exciting like that.
Napoleon? Didn’t he think that he controlled the horizontal and vertical for a while? Wasn’t he finally defeated by the coldness of the Russian winter? Many of his men turned blue.
First of all, I agree with jackyyyy that the last sentence is an ad. and secondly, none of the listings are hairy umbrellas, either.
I'd say simply that he doesn't need both and by using only the first part, Wachtel encourages us to think about it as more than simply a line from a TV show. Don't you like my suggestion that it could refer to the sexual realm of the horizontal?
I also think it suggests the story will be continued, for the very reason that you address in your next question – what can we do? Neither Literature nor life offers any answers to that question. I have no idea what we should do – but it’s a step in the right direction simply to be aware of who’s telling us what and why and with what effect on our lives.
Ah! I think this makes sense now, though since he has taken all sentences out of context by putting them into the poem, I thought that might be enough encouragement.
Sorry, I forgot about your idea of the horizontal sexual realm. That would definitely link it with the next sentence. I was only wondering: why not vertical? But it makes sense now.
Though I have to say, being young and all, the sexual realm can be 'vertical' for a lot of the time
I am deeply shocked!!!Though I have to say, being young and all, the sexual realm can be 'vertical' for a lot of the time
Art is art.
Excuse me
They may literally be, but the context of each sentence does not change in meaning. The thought expressed in each sentence is the same in the poem as it is wherever Wachtel got the sentences from.
I can see your point, but its 'we control the horizontal' not vertical. Nothing ever mentioned about vertical. I think this means we(we individuals) have control over everything except the horizontal.
I like your idea that 'they appear to own the weather,' but isn't it going too far to say that they seem to 'claim ownership of our souls.'
I'm sorry ktd222 but I don't really understand what you are saying here. Surely the author had taken these sentences out of their original context in order to put more focus on them. Their meanings may not have changed, but the context in which they are has changed. Isn't the fact that we read them in this poem rather than on the TV a change of context? Their environment and their purpose have changed, among other things. The most obvious example, I think, is the first sentence which has lost its question mark. It used to be a question, and now it is not.
Furthermore, even if the author had not intended for their original meanings to be changed, the fact that he used them for a different purpose and in a different way must have changed them. Relativity right?
No, it isn’t. The meaning does change. Meanings are always dependent on context. Look at this sentence:
“I enjoyed having my neighbour for lunch.”
Does it only mean one thing, regardless of context? What if the context is that it’s a cannibal who makes the statement? Now it means something very different. Poetry isn’t literal and denotative – it depends on connotations. As tn2743 says, “Their environment and their purpose have changed”. It’s not that Wachtel has replaced the meanings with wholly different ones but that he has invited us to generate meanings other than the ones intended by the original context. I assume that ‘turning blue’ in the original context refers to someone not getting enough oxygen – within the context of a poem that uses coldness as a sort of motif, it also suggests a less literal coldness.
Okay – and what does that mean? Given that the context is a series of comments about TV and media, is it so unlikely that the sentence could relate to televisions?
It would be if I based it entirely upon that one phrase in this particular poem. The ‘claim ownership of our souls’ bit is the way I see it but it is consistent with the Media as represented in the poem.
Goodness, get sick for a few days and I've missed this whole discussion about sagging vegetables and frustrated serial killers collecting Disney memorabilia or something.
Well, I've only just gotten a chance to look at the contribution for this week. My first thought, like others who have commented, was that it sounds like channel surfing. I think the idea of the form (or lack thereof, depending on how you see it) is an interesting one, a media inspired stream of conciousness commenting on the way fragments of ads and tv and radio seep into our minds and sort of settle there in a plastic soup. I wonder though, if others find that it's a poem that they still find it as interesting on the second read, or if, like the quickly shifting, disposable soundbytes it's made of, it fails to keep our attention in any meaningful way? I wonder, because I've run across similar ideas before, and while I've found it the sort of thing that momentarily makes you stop and think about the connections between the random phrases etc., it's seldom anything that I feel compelled to come back to and read over again. After all, much of the allure really lies in its uniqueness. I don't know that the work itself is as interesting as much as the idea behind it of stringing random phrases together. If many poets started using the same form and it lost its originality I feel as though such a poem would also lose most of its edge. I'd be interested to hear if there are differences of opinion though. I'm not trying to claim it's "bad" poetry, just trying to see if people find it to be poetry of lasting interest. Maybe I just need to read through it again and see if it speaks to me more.
"In rime sparse il suono/ di quei sospiri ond' io nudriva 'l core/ in sul mio primo giovenile errore"~ Francesco Petrarca
"Follies and nonsense, whims and inconsistencies do divert me, I own, and I laugh at them whenever I can."~ Jane Austen
Yes, WABC is a television station as well. It's the particular locution that suggested radio to me. But I guess it doesn't have to be.
Ok, I stand corrected.
Good points. I can buy into both.
This I don't buy into. Way too tenuous a connection. What about the other things he lists?
I don't know if lost forever, but it certainly trivializes serious topics.
Here's a thought: Horizontal, euphemism for death as well as love.
LET THERE BE LIGHT
"Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena
My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/
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