Religious Absurdity And Modern Psychological Baggage.

[Mr Hyde]

Why is it that when some people fervently believe in ghosts or when they follow commanding ‘voices in their head’, these people are treated as delusional, crazy or even psychopathic? These people are given medical treatment and brain-chemical balancing drugs in order to manage their mental illness. Yet when people profess the most intense beliefs in certain other things no one has ever really seen, such as demons, Allah, God, angels, heaven, hell, and so on, these people are treated with the greatest of reverence and social respect and even made into leaders and wise gurus who become rich from the donations of their faithful followers!

What is the difference here? The fantasies and delusions are equally foolish whether it’s the belief and obedience to a psychotic voice in the head or an imaginary deity residing in some magical place no one can see. Religious beliefs should be placed in the same class as mental sickness or any other serious psychological disorder that degrades the quality of life and the individual's ability to deal with reality.

One of the fundamental (but understandable) flaws with modern psychology is its assumption that sanity is defined using the mental character of the majority as a benchmark. But this standard isn’t really objective, it’s subjective and merely based on a relational comparison that is used incorrectly to define an aberrant standard for mental health. Just because many people believe in something that doesn’t make it valid, and just because a lie is repeated a billion times that doesn’t make it any more truthful than it was to begin with!

http://www.counterorder.com/belief.html

What are people's opinion on all of this?

[Sweets America]

That seems quite accurate, in a way. That reminds me why I quit psychology, because I could not stand the idea of having to believe in theories which decide who is sane and who is not. Scary.

[billyjack]

the religiously enlightened person is sated in reality while the delusional mental case is starved of it. however, most religious folks arent enlightened and therefore could use a reality check too.

when i say enlightened i most certainly do not mean "saved."

[The Atheist]

What are people's opinion on all of this?

That it's extremely close to the mark, if not 100% correct.

[Mr. Vandemar]

Take it even further than that. Why should I believe that I am an evolved orangutan? Why should I believe that I had ancestors from Europe? Why should I believe there is such a thing as China? Aren't these abstract concepts also just as ridiculous as religious ones? We take for granted a lot of things which we shouldn't.

[The Atheist]

Take it even further than that. Why should I believe that I am an evolved orangutan?

You shouldn't, we didn't.

Why should I believe that I had ancestors from Europe? Why should I believe there is such a thing as China? Aren't these abstract concepts also just as ridiculous as religious ones?

No.

The only path which goes that way is solipsism.

We take for granted a lot of things which we shouldn't.

Who's this "we" you speak of? If you mean humans in general, I'll buy that!

[NikolaiI]

well, I believe in God, so I don't think I'm insane for doing so. thank you for the pleasant sentiments.

[The Atheist]

well, I believe in God, so I don't think I'm insane for doing so. thank you for the pleasant sentiments.

I don't think the quote actually says that.

[JCamilo]

It is bs.
I know several individuals (and I bet most people will consider with calm and see they do also) that believe in ghosts or anything similar (The author of the quoted part does not even consider that several religions believe in ghosts communication, voices in their head) and are not treated like someone with mental illiness because they live as ground in the reality as any normal religious guy (or girl). At sametime I know people who dellusions are religious based and they are treated.
I won't dismiss one or another case of medical incompetence but I doubt anyone would give to someone heavy medical treatment if the case wasnt serious enough, putting in danger the person interation with society and justifiable since as a normal human being we are allowed our degree of insanity.

[Mr Hyde]

That seems quite accurate, in a way. That reminds me why I quit psychology, because I could not stand the idea of having to believe in theories which decide who is sane and who is not. Scary.

Psychology is based off of the assumption that the majority of humans dictate what sane behavior should be. ( A rather broad assumption.)

Of course I can think of many instances where the majority is flawed yet psychology for security's sake rather not go into detail about all that. ( It never does.)

the religiously enlightened person is sated in reality while the delusional mental case is starved of it.

In what comparison or detail?

however, most religious folks arent enlightened and therefore could use a reality check too.

Interesting.

when i say enlightened i most certainly do not mean "saved."

What do you mean exactly?

The atheist said:

No.

The only path which goes that way is solipsism.

Is not all of existence guided by subjective expirience?

I don't think man can quite escape from solipsism.

well, I believe in God, so I don't think I'm insane for doing so. thank you for the pleasant sentiments.

Don't mind me. I'm just being analytical.

It is bs.
I know several individuals (and I bet most people will consider with calm and see they do also) that believe in ghosts or anything similar (The author of the quoted part does not even consider that several religions believe in ghosts communication, voices in their head) and are not treated like someone with mental illiness because they live as ground in the reality as any normal religious guy (or girl). At sametime I know people who dellusions are religious based and they are treated.
I won't dismiss one or another case of medical incompetence but I doubt anyone would give to someone heavy medical treatment if the case wasnt serious enough, putting in danger the person interation with society and justifiable since as a normal human being we are allowed our degree of insanity.

Tell me when a person believes in god, gods, angels, devils, spirits and demons which he cannot prove to exist exactly how is that religious person any different from a man who lays in a padded room amongst an asylum?

In both cases they are conversing and interacting with invisible non-existent entities that cannot be proven to exist physically.

The only difference I can see is that for some reason one is called more sane than the other of course I can't even begin to tell you what that reason is as it is beyond my understanding.

[billyjack]

In what comparison or detail?


What do you mean exactly?

i'd call spinoza(sometimes), thoreau, nietzche, winny the pooh, ect enlightened bc they take sense perception and experience as their basis for reality, rather than concepts/ theories.

christians throw the term saved around like its identical to enlightenment. its not. in fact, they're polar opposites. being that their reasoning for contentment lies in scripture, not experience

[Psycheinaboat]

Tell me when a person believes in god, gods, angels, devils, spirits and demons which he cannot prove to exist exactly how is that religious person any different from a man who lays in a padded room amongst an asylum?

In both cases they are conversing and interacting with invisible non-existent entities that cannot be proven to exist physically.

The only difference I can see is that for some reason one is called more sane than the other of course I can't even begin to tell you what that reason is as it is beyond my understanding.

I think the difference is cause or motivation. What makes young children talk to invisible friends? Are they insane? No.

If I talk to invisible beings as a symptom of Schizophrenia, I probably need treatment, someone to intercede on my behalf. If I am praying, but everything else seems to be working as it should (mentally and emotionally), why would I need intercession?

Would you say praying is indicative of a disorder that is harmful to myself or others? I am not asking about the Crusades or some broad example of religious fervor, and mostly greed, run amok; I mean, is the individual more dangerous or disordered because he prays and believes fervently in God?

[JCamilo]

Yes, that is a complete clueless reaction. People are only confined to asylums if they cannt control they behaviador thus putting other or themselves in danger. You are being over simplistic if you think capacity of imagination or fictionalization is considered insanity or even, as religious maybe, a case for for cultural education.
That is like jumping over a dude that coughs because he may be turbeculosis while it can just be caused by dust.
People are not treated because of symthoms but because of what cause it (there will several exams to decide if the hormones, if the brain, etc will show something) and just talking with imaginary things is not enough.
This attack against religion is simple minded, not bright and even compared to the "evolved from orangotangos"... in other worlds, completely unecessary.

[Mr Hyde]

I think the difference is cause or motivation. What makes young children talk to invisible friends? Are they insane? No.

If I talk to invisible beings as a symptom of Schizophrenia, I probably need treatment, someone to intercede on my behalf. If I am praying, but everything else seems to be working as it should (mentally and emotionally), why would I need intercession?

Would you say praying is indicative of a disorder that is harmful to myself or others? I am not asking about the Crusades or some broad example of religious fervor, and mostly greed, run amok; I mean, is the individual more dangerous or disordered because he prays and believes fervently in God?

Are you saying there is a right way to converse and interact with invisible non-existing entities where sanity is determined on the socially acceptable way of doing it?

{edit}

[JCamilo]

No, he is saying that talking with invisible beings does not put you in a padded cell, You are going to be examinated and if they find anything wrong with you - biologically wise - they may give you medicine.
He is telling you that beliving in eastern bunny, in god or my invisible friend does not classify us - in medical terms - insane.
He is telling you that what cause you to believe in imaginary beings is what can be classificated as disease. Either you have a disease (like schizophrenia), or you are just imaginative as a writer, or you are a child, or you follow a religion, etc. They all may appear to be the samething, but they are obviously not. It is rather naive and uniformed to judge they are all the same or treated all the same.