Bhagavad Gita

[NikolaiI]

Perhaps you have heard of this, perhaps this is the first time. Bhagavad Gita means, in Sanskrit, "the Song of Our Lord;" the text is a 700 verse song, with 18 chapters.

The Bhagavad Gita was first spoke millions of years ago, Krishna explains, to the sun god, Visisvan. He explains that He descends whenever there is a decline in religious practice, to annihilate the demons and to establish the devotees.

The Gita is the richest source of spiritual wisdom of which I know, equal to all. There are interpreters who say that it is only a book of wisdom, and the statements about Krishna being God are meaningless, but I don't know what their motives are.

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami was a devotee of Krishna who explains that Krishna is God because he fits the description. No one else is God, nor did Krishna become God. Krishna is God because he possesses the six qualities of supreme beauty, wealth, knowledge, renunciation, wisdom, and power. We are similar in that we have these qualities, but not to the same extent Krishna has.

The Bhagavad Gita is holy because it is the instructions of Krishna. Krishna explains the purpose of life is yoga, and the perfection of life is devotional yoga, or bhakti yoga; more specifically, service and devotion to God.

I've only read the Gita a few times, but I've discussed it a lot and chanted a lot; which is the prescription sacrifice for spiritual development in this age. I've attended lots of Bhagavad Gita classes; what I mean is I would love to open discussion of this holy book and I am most happy to give answers about the philosophy.

[Dark Muse]

I own a copy of it, but alas I fear I have not yet read it.

[NikolaiI]

That's great to hear. It's a wonderful resource.

[blazeofglory]

Nikolai, I have read it in Sanskrit when I was a child. I wrote once in reply to a post that I was obsessed with holy books in my babyhood. I was an enigmatic boy and had interest in great classics prematurely. Like you now I had great faith in all these holy books. I was a great devotee of Krishna and not a single day, and of course at times not a single hour was spent without praying or chanting Sanskrit hymns or Slokas we say in Sanskrit. I was a queer boy those days. I prayed and cried and the Slokas of the Bhagabatam moved me and tears rolled down my face. I composed so many poems in praise of Krishna.

Now also I have faith. But to be very honest to you, my friend, I am less devoted and doubts have arisen.

Those were precious moments when I was Innocent and believed in God. Now I am a bit changed. I respect you immensely. Notwithstanding all that I wrote on the forum, I take you as a man of the purity of heart. You are closer to self realization. I wish all the best.

[NikolaiI]

Thank you, but I am not that close to self-realization. Still, I don't like stigmas against people talking about spirituality. I love to discuss philosophy and spirituality, if I am in the right mood. Philosophy is not one thing; it cannot be claimed by any one person. It is made up of many different sources, often individuals writing their own ideas and of course following their own rules.

But the subject was Bhagavad-Gita. The Gita talks mostly about five different topics, which are 1)jiva, the living entity, 2)prakriti, material nature, 3)isvara, the supreme controler, 4)time, and 5)karma, or activities.

One of the first things that Krishna says in the Gita is one of the most important. Chapter 2 Verse 12 he says this:

na tv evāhaḿ jātu nāsaḿ
na tvaḿ neme janādhipāḥ
na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ
sarve vayam ataḥ param

Translation by His Divine Grace A.C. Swamibhaktivedanta

"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."

I'll just give the next few verses here, since they are most valuable.

BG 2.12: Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.

BG 2.13: As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change.

BG 2.14: O son of Kuntī, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed.

BG 2.15: O best among men [Arjuna], the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation.

BG 2.16: Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both.

BG 2.17: That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul.

BG 2.18: The material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is sure to come to an end; therefore, fight, O descendant of Bharata.

BG 2.19: Neither he who thinks the living entity the slayer nor he who thinks it slain is in knowledge, for the self slays not nor is slain.

BG 2.20: For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.

BG 2.21: O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?

BG 2.22: As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones.

BG 2.23: The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.

BG 2.24: This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.

BG 2.25: It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable and immutable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the body.

All translations are by AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and are from this site http://vedabase.net/bg/2/en

[NikolaiI]

I hope it's not a problem that I'm dividing posts. I'll try not to post too many of my own if no one else joins also.

I want to give some verses now about Krishna, from the beginning of Chapter 9, and also

BG 9.1: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to you this most confidential knowledge and realization, knowing which you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence.

BG 9.2: This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed.

BG 9.3: Those who are not faithful in this devotional service cannot attain Me, O conqueror of enemies. Therefore they return to the path of birth and death in this material world.

BG 9.4: By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them.

BG 9.5: And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the very source of creation.

BG 9.6: Understand that as the mighty wind, blowing everywhere, rests always in the sky, all created beings rest in Me.

BG 9.7: O son of Kuntī, at the end of the millennium all material manifestations enter into My nature, and at the beginning of another millennium, by My potency, I create them again.

BG 9.8: The whole cosmic order is under Me. Under My will it is automatically manifested again and again, and under My will it is annihilated at the end.

BG 9.9: O Dhanañjaya, all this work cannot bind Me. I am ever detached from all these material activities, seated as though neutral.

BG 9.10: This material nature, which is one of My energies, is working under My direction, O son of Kuntī, producing all moving and nonmoving beings. Under its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again.

BG 9.11: Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be.

BG 9.12: Those who are thus bewildered are attracted by demonic and atheistic views. In that deluded condition, their hopes for liberation, their fruitive activities, and their culture of knowledge are all defeated.

BG 9.13: O son of Pṛthā, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible.

BG 9.14: Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion.

A question that many people have is "who are we?" or "who am I?" The great sage Ramana Maharshi had an idea where one asks the question, "who am I?" and considers it until one is absorbed in it, this was his meditation in the self.

The answer as given in the Gita is that we are souls. This is a word-- soul-- and what does it mean? In our discussion it means a single living entity and a consciousness. The philosophy of the Gita is that we are eternal, we are in this material world for a short stay, and before our material existence and after, we are liberated souls, existing in God. It is said that what intelligence actually is is knowing the difference between matter and spirit.

George Harrison explained something important in a very succinct way. He said that all souls are potentially divine. In the Gita it explains that our natural state is one full of knowledge and bliss. So spiritually, in our liberated and enlightened state, we are experiencing knowledge and bliss.

In the Vedas elsewhere, it says that one attached to sense gratification is born into separateness, into a dream of separateness. In the self is fulfillment greater than this, in the self one can go beyond all boundaries, and wake up from the illusion of separateness.

George Harrison wrote that everyone is searching for Krishna, God, though they might not know it. I have written to this effect and people disagreed. The reason is that Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is the source of all pleasure. All pleasure is from Krishna, but Krishna, being the source, is a greater pleasure than any other.

The Bhagavad-Gita is holy because it is spoken by Krishna. Krishna explains everything that there needs to be known about spiritual life-- the most fulfilling occupation of human life. We are meant to learn about liberation and enlightenment. We have a responsibility which is higher than the animals. We are instructed to treat everything with kindness or empathy. The philosophy is one of devotion, which should run from our most inner thoughts to our most external. The devotees of Krishna are generally very pure, and do good works such as distributing prasadam.

Association is very important. It says in Srimad Bhagavatam, "The messages of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are full of potencies, and these potencies can be realized if topics regarding the Supreme Godhead are discussed amongst devotees. This cannot be achieved by the association of mental speculators or academic scholars, for it is realized knowledge."

I once asked His Holiness Danavir Goswami how one could avoid sinful activities and he said that association with saintly persons is the most vital, the most important thing one can do.

And yet, devotees are also instructed to preach, since it is said spreading spiritual knowledge is the highest service one can render. Devotees help feed homeless, but it is not all they do. If you simply feed the homeless, they are helped a little, but if you help a person addicted to sinful activites to grow into someone new, who isn't slave to cravings, then you have helped them learn to live real life.

And yet, I don't mean to be preaching, and if I am I welcome someone else to join and contribute and help steer. I simply wish to learn and discuss about the Gita, as a religious text and as philosophy. It is indeed philosophy, as I said before no one person can claim the rights to philosophy and deny others the right to speak of it...the philosophy of the Gita is one about our own nature-- material or spiritual?-- etc., and especially about spiritual life.

[blazeofglory]

Thanking you for giving me a chance to read it again. I have read it a long time ago as a kid and now I am reading. It is always thrilling to read this great philosophy!

[NikolaiI]

BG 4.1: The Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Ikṣvāku.

BG 4.2: This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost.

BG 4.3: That very ancient science of the relationship with the Supreme is today told by Me to you because you are My devotee as well as My friend and can therefore understand the transcendental mystery of this science.

BG 4.4: Arjuna said: The sun-god Vivasvān is senior by birth to You. How am I to understand that in the beginning You instructed this science to him?

BG 4.5: The Personality of Godhead said: Many, many births both you and I have passed. I can remember all of them, but you cannot, O subduer of the enemy!

BG 4.6: Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all living entities, I still appear in every millennium in My original transcendental form.

BG 4.7: Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion — at that time I descend Myself.

BG 4.8: To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I Myself appear, millennium after millennium.

BG 4.9: One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.

BG 4.10: Being freed from attachment, fear and anger, being fully absorbed in Me and taking refuge in Me, many, many persons in the past became purified by knowledge of Me — and thus they all attained transcendental love for Me.

Herein we find the history of the Bhagavad-gita traced from a remote time when it was delivered to the royal order, the kings of all planets. This science is especially meant for the protection of the inhabitants, and therefore the royal order should understand it in order to be able to rule the citizens and protect them from the material bondage to lust. Human life is meant for cultivation of spiritual knowledge, in eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the executive heads of all states and all planets are obliged to impart this lesson to the citizens by education, culture and devotion. In other words, the executive heads of all states are intended to spread the science of Krsna consciousness so that the people may take advantage of this great science and pursue a successful path, utilizing the opportunity of the human form of life.

In this millennium, the sun-god is known as Vivasvan, the king of the sun, which is the origin of all planets within the solar system. In the Brahma-samhita it is stated:

yac-caksur esa savita sakala-grahanam
raja samasta-sura-murtir asesa-tejah
yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakro
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

"Let me worship," Lord Brahma said, "the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda [Krsna], who is the original person and under whose order the sun, which is the king of all planets, is assuming immense power and heat. The sun represents the eye of the Lord and traverses its orbit in obedience to His order."
The sun is the king of the planets, and the sun-god (at present of the name Vivasvan) rules the sun planet, which is controlling all other planets by supplying heat and light. He is rotating under the order of Krsna, and Lord Krsna originally made Vivasvan His first disciple to understand the science of Bhagavad-gita. The Gita is not, therefore, a speculative treatise for the insignificant mundane scholar but is a standard book of knowledge coming down from time immemorial.

Taken from http://www.asitis.com/4/1.html

Chapter 4 of Bhagavad Gita is called Transcendental Knowledge. What is transcendental knowledge? It's knowledge of Krishna that is liberating. Krishna says that if we have knowledge of the transcendental nature of his appearance, then we do not take birth again, but return to Krishna's eternal abode.

Krishna is explaining this science to Arjuna because Arjuna is a dear friend and devotee. If someone becomes a devotee of the Lord, then the Lord becomes very interested in him.

In Chapter 12 verses 13-20 Krishna describes several different qualities of a devotee who is dear to the Lord.

BG 12.13-14: One who is not envious but is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor and is free from false ego, who is equal in both happiness and distress, who is tolerant, always satisfied, self-controlled, and engaged in devotional service with determination, his mind and intelligence fixed on Me — such a devotee of Mine is very dear to Me.

BG 12.15: He for whom no one is put into difficulty and who is not disturbed by anyone, who is equipoised in happiness and distress, fear and anxiety, is very dear to Me.

BG 12.16: My devotee who is not dependent on the ordinary course of activities, who is pure, expert, without cares, free from all pains, and not striving for some result, is very dear to Me.

BG 12.17: One who neither rejoices nor grieves, who neither laments nor desires, and who renounces both auspicious and inauspicious things — such a devotee is very dear to Me.

BG 12.18-19: One who is equal to friends and enemies, who is equipoised in honor and dishonor, heat and cold, happiness and distress, fame and infamy, who is always free from contaminating association, always silent and satisfied with anything, who doesn't care for any residence, who is fixed in knowledge and who is engaged in devotional service — such a person is very dear to Me.

BG 12.20: Those who follow this imperishable path of devotional service and who completely engage themselves with faith, making Me the supreme goal, are very, very dear to Me.

[Madhuri]

Excellent !

Nikolai, thats impressive. Even I want to read the whole book now

[NikolaiI]

That's really great to hear, Madhuri! I hope you do read it soon.

I understand that there are lots of different translations of the Gita, and commentators sometimes make up their own philosophy taken from quotes of the Gita, although often they make conclusions which are against the clear indiciations of the Gita itself. The Gita is not an impersonalist doctrine, but very clearly states that Krsna is the Original Person, as he is referred to in the Brahma Samhita.

I really am out of my depth here, I know the Gita but not more than a little of the Brahma Samhita or the Srimad Bhagavatam. Still I will try to give some verses and some of my own understanding, and I welcome any input or correction if someone sees something.

BG 3.31: Those persons who execute their duties according to My injunctions and who follow this teaching faithfully, without envy, become free from the bondage of fruitive actions.

BG 3.32: But those who, out of envy, disregard these teachings and do not follow them are to be considered bereft of all knowledge, befooled, and ruined in their endeavors for perfection.

BG 6.1: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: One who is unattached to the fruits of his work and who works as he is obligated is in the renounced order of life, and he is the true mystic, not he who lights no fire and performs no duty.

BG 6.2: What is called renunciation you should know to be the same as yoga, or linking oneself with the Supreme, O son of Pāṇḍu, for one can never become a yogī unless he renounces the desire for sense gratification.

BG 6.3: For one who is a neophyte in the eightfold yoga system, work is said to be the means; and for one who is already elevated in yoga, cessation of all material activities is said to be the means.

BG 6.4: A person is said to be elevated in yoga when, having renounced all material desires, he neither acts for sense gratification nor engages in fruitive activities.

BG 6.5: One must deliver himself with the help of his mind, and not degrade himself. The mind is the friend of the conditioned soul, and his enemy as well.

BG 6.6: For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his mind will remain the greatest enemy.

BG 6.7: For one who has conquered the mind, the Supersoul is already reached, for he has attained tranquillity. To such a man happiness and distress, heat and cold, honor and dishonor are all the same.

BG 6.8: A person is said to be established in self-realization and is called a yogī [or mystic] when he is fully satisfied by virtue of acquired knowledge and realization. Such a person is situated in transcendence and is self-controlled. He sees everything — whether it be pebbles, stones or gold — as the same.

BG 6.9: A person is considered still further advanced when he regards honest well-wishers, affectionate benefactors, the neutral, mediators, the envious, friends and enemies, the pious and the sinners all with an equal mind.

BG 6.10: A transcendentalist should always engage his body, mind and self in relationship with the Supreme; he should live alone in a secluded place and should always carefully control his mind. He should be free from desires and feelings of possessiveness.

BG 9.26: If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it.

BG 9.27: Whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer or give away, and whatever austerities you perform — do that, O son of Kuntī, as an offering to Me.

BG 9.28: In this way you will be freed from bondage to work and its auspicious and inauspicious results. With your mind fixed on Me in this principle of renunciation, you will be liberated and come to Me.

BG 9.29: I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him.

Text 6.2 is important,

yam sannyasam iti prahur
yogam tam viddhi pandava
na hy asannyasta-sankalpo
yogi bhavati kascana

"What is called renunciation is the same as yoga, or linking oneself with the Supreme, for no one can become a yogi unless he renounces the desire for sense gratification."

Yoga is linking to the Supreme, or it is the path to the Supreme. If we do something for something or someone, then we become closer to that person or thing. So as we do anything for Krishna, while we are acting we are on the path to Krishna.

Our natural position then is service to Krishna, which is devotion. Devotional yoga is the practice and worship of self-realization. Our natural position is not in fact, simply trying to satisfy our never ending sense desires. Our natural position is to serve the Supreme. The highest state of realization is love of God. Loving God is not separate from loving His creation, because the creation is made up of fragmented spiritual sparks, which together make up the Whole. Our natural position is part of the Supreme Soul, just like particles in an ocean are part of the ocean. So, as Krsna says in the Gita, we should serve Him in everything we do-- we should do it all for Him, and who we should serve is the servant of the servant of God.

Text Chapter 8 Verse 8

abhyasa-yoga-yuktena
cetasa nanya-gamina
paramam purusam divyam
yati parthanucintayan

"He who meditates on the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his mind constantly engaged in remembering Me, undeviated from the path, he, O Partha [Arjuna], is sure to reach Me."

Ch. 9 Verse 4

satatam kirtayanto mam
yatantas ca dridha-vratah
namasyantas ca mam bhaktya
nitya-yukta upasate

"Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion."

[NikolaiI]

Whatever action a great man performs, common men follow. And whatever standards he sets by exmplary acts, all the world pursures.

[mazHur]

many years a friend of mine brought me a copy of Bhagvat Geeta from Delhi,,,I tried to read it but the philosophy contained therein was rather too much for my understanding so i left reading it for some other time.
Unfortunately one of my friends borrowed it and won't return it ,,,

The Geeta begins with the table of 9 ,,,ofcourse this number is full of mysteries!

I have skimmed through some of the verses quoted here and they are very nice,,,

The name Krishna in terms of Geeta seems to stand for the Supreme Being, I guess.

[RG57]

I believe to gain knowledge is valuable, I shall to get myself a copy of the Bhagavad Gita. Strangely I was thinking about this the other day!

[NikolaiI]

I believe to gain knowledge is valuable, I shall to get myself a copy of the Bhagavad Gita. Strangely I was thinking about this the other day!

It's the best investment you'll ever make.

I studied philosophy a lot until I came across the Gita and when I had I knew I had found the best. I hope you'll get Swami Prabhupada's translation titled Bhagavad-Gita As It Is because he explains it as it really is.

[blazeofglory]

In fact the Gita is a book of mysteries. Of course the philosophies in the Gita are hard to understand. There are so many interpretations of the Gita.

I oftentimes read it. I started reading the Gita when I was a small kid. Then I read it out of and for devotion and now out of curiosity and for knowledge I read.