O forlorn Odysseus! Wasn't he a floundering fool?Originally Posted by Kyriakos
Is not the journey to Ithaca significant by itself though? Surely arriving there is the end, but the actual journey has its own significance, and, after all, it was the journey which was the subject of the epic, not Odysseus' life when he finally dealt with the situation in his kingdom.
Correct me if I am wrong, according to you Idea of Space, Idea of Speech, Idea of moving in space are distinct from space, speech, and the act of moving themselves...all of which are independent of us? Second what do u mean by speech influences logos, are u talking about something similar to Orwell's 1984, where the words themselves control your thought? Are you aiming for some sort of Platonic Dualism between the internal and external reality? I mean even if we establish a one to one correspondence between internal and external world, what then? I guess u have to give us some more before we can contribute :-D ,otherwise u will get more questions than answers
Hi Muazjalil
Yes in my view there is a distinction between the idea and the object itself. For example the object of space first of all exists through the senses and our ability to move. I am not certain which of the two made it first form. But this is the sensory perception of space.
Then you have space itself, which does not exist as is seen for it assumes the form the sight and animating mechanisms of the observer of it grants it.
And, finally, you have the idea itself of space, which is surely distinct both from space as a thing by itself, and space as a sensory perception, for the idea is an object in the mental world of the person having this ideation. The idea of space seems to be even more complicated as an issue, since it does not seem obvious to what it breaks up to. Is it a reflection of the sensory perception of space? Is it something, instead, that forms primarily as a meaning of "distance" we have and which appears to be innate? I think ti is all of that, and more.
As for Logos and Speech, Logos in greek means at the same time "logic" and "(verbal) speech". I think that there is some reason why this is so. The first humans did not have speech (how could they? They had to develop something in agreement to each other, and therefore there was a time before developing speech, a time of getting together in groups and socializing without being able to communicate in intricate ways). So it follows, in my view, that there existed a time during which humans had social relations with groups, but not an agreed upon system of speech. This by itself seems to be very significant for where else would one look for the crucial distinction in the notions of the external and internal world if not in that shadowy prehistoric period where the external world appeared to be (perhaps for the first time) an at least as significant world as the internal one, and also the internal one was reigning supreme still?
I recall one of my professors in Philosophy who told us that we were wrong if we came to study it so as to find answers, for it endlessly creates more questions. This is true, and a good thing. Although it shows just how vast our mental world is, and how little the ability to express it all, all that is one
Here is an aphorism i developed recently. You have my full permission to reproduce it in your work if you feel fit.
'There is no time,there is only moving space'.
By this i mean that time in itself is not a 'thing' but an 'idea' that we produce from the conflagration and abstraction of two seperate phenomenon.
The human 'soul' is a personality,which physically is a 'doer' and this doer is a moving force which takes up space,but is also a vacum/void. However the void/vacum is defined by it boundary which is its 'external appearance',thus all humans are clothed in a body. Even shakespeares ghosts have a form! Hope you can put this mind fart to some use.
ps; dont write 1000 pages,the best treatises are from 20 to 100 pages. Above 150 and we know you are waffling or showing off!!!
Last edited by Theunderground; 09-12-2011 at 10:10 AM.
Hm, although i would agree that time was a non-issue for prehistoric people, at the same time it seems that they too had the idea of flowing space, as you put it. Not sure if it was primarily of flowing space, or of distance, which in its turn can be attributed to a different and sensory perception, that of the work one needs to do so as to get from one point to the next, both in physical points, and metaphorical ones.
For the time being the essay is in hypnosis, as we say hereAnd if i decide to start it again then i can assure you it would need at least 1000 pages.
Of course i agree that a 1000-pages work is hard to read. But i do not plan to have it published now. Maybe if i achieve some kind of fame due to my literary work it can be published after my death, or in the late years of my life (i am 32 now).
For the time being i would rather use parts of it in my short stories
I much prefer short stories nowadays. I Look forward to your shorties then!
Except that we age. Time is real enough; it's only human measurement of it that is abstract and arbitrary.
Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."
Anon
The aging may be our decrease in the ability to regenerate our physical body.Of course the passage of space is always forward and real .
:bump: I bought Steven Mithen's "The Prehistory of the mind" a couple of days ago. Seems to be quite relevant to much of my essay, and it is a new book, translated in 2010.
Anyone read it or parts of it?
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