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Thread: human nature

  1. #1
    King of Plastic Spoons imthefoolonthehill's Avatar
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    human nature

    In a previous thread (Alchohol, Bible)... we were cut off.

    I am not extending the argument, I am only clarifying myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by imthefoolonthehill
    wow... thankfully this hasn't turned into a debate yet... that would have angered me...because I don't think the subject is biblically debatable.

    so... thats good... I will have to go find something else to gripe about... you guys sure make it hard on me... next time you should make it easy for me to find something to gripe about.
    I was laughing at my own nature, not antagonizing..... THERE WAS NO NEED TO CLOSE THAT THREAD... I was insulted, and then resonded with sarcasm... then somehow I was 'not leaving someone alone' ... therefore antagonizing 'even more'.... I still don't understand why the thread was closed...

    This is absolutely absurd... somehow, people always read threads as though the person writing them is either out to insult them, or hates them.

    Anyways...THEN... we started a conversation about human nature, a conversation I would like to continue with a k-hind (way some people pronounce kind) spirit... and not the spirit of (which never really existed in that thread) antagonism...

    SO: is it human nature to be happy with your circumstances, or to gripe about them? (the answer seems obvious to me... so I will ask another question)...

    Are human beings generally evil in nature, or generally good? If a human was given the best circumstances available, could that person possibly become evil?

    I don't know if anyone else finds this interesting, but I do... so I will see how many people reply.
    Told by a fool, signifying nothing.

  2. #2
    Drama Queen Koa's Avatar
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    i sent you a private message, did you see it?
    dead on the inside, i've got nothing to prove
    keep me alive and give me something to lose

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    King of Plastic Spoons imthefoolonthehill's Avatar
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    yes... I got it... I find it rediculous that you, along with several other people who have sent me private messages have voiced fears of being deleted for discussing this.

    It is stupid and rediculous... admin... please tell these people that you will be fair and reasonable and not delete people who simply post in this forum.
    Told by a fool, signifying nothing.

  4. #4
    Drama Queen Koa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imthefoolonthehill
    yes... I got it... I find it rediculous that you, along with several other people who have sent me private messages have voiced fears of being deleted for discussing this.
    well sorry for participating then...
    dead on the inside, i've got nothing to prove
    keep me alive and give me something to lose

  5. #5
    King of Plastic Spoons imthefoolonthehill's Avatar
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    no! lol thats not what I meant... I meant to say that I find it ridiculous that people need fear the admin deleting them for discussing such a subject.
    Told by a fool, signifying nothing.

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    The mind boggles after reading the above! What on earth were you discussing... that's what I'd like to know?!

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    King of Plastic Spoons imthefoolonthehill's Avatar
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    go to Bible, then read the alchohol thread.
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    Well – thank you imthefoolonthehill – I’ve just finished reading that thread.

    So much has been written on the subject of happiness and joy hasn’t it? The ancient Greeks had great long debates about how one might attain it (I’m thinking here of the sayings of Epicurus and his letters to Menoeceus), sects of all great religions have concerned themselves with it (though the latter do tend to equate happiness/joy with inner peace – the Buddhist & Sufi ideas about the losing of the Self come to mind), then there’s the scientific points of view (these days, most seem to refer to the levels of serotonin in the brain), and of course, it has crept into the work of most great writers/artists in some way or another all across the ages.

    A vast subject then, but one which concerns us across the board. Naturally, if anyone is still interested in talking about it with any degree of logic, we would first need to decide and agree on a definition of happiness (or joy if you prefer). Before you can debate something properly – you must make a group judgement about the limits of what it is!

    As for the other stuff – I’m not sure what’s going on with all the angst. I don’t mean to cause offence to either of you – but Shea and imthefoolonthehill – you seem to have forgotten the initial argument and started to have a go at each other on a surprisingly personal level. I wonder why?

    For what they’re worth – here are a few thoughts:

    Shea my dear – you strike me as a person who tries to be kind. And for me there is merit in that and something to respect. However, you say you pity imthefoolonthehill because he gripes and so on – but I would say to you: be careful with pity – it is so often an excuse not to try and understand. If you are secure in your ability to think for yourself, then there is nothing that imthefoolonthehill can say to you which should be upsetting. Perhaps you could try to distance yourself emotioanally a little? Just be laid back and interested in an intellectual way. I would be very pleased if you would care to return to this topic and talk to me about how you perceive happiness, but if you feel you don’t wish to, I shall understand.

    imthefoolonthehill – just so you know, your griping will not bother me one jot! – I am perfectly able to grin and handle any sarcasm you tap out in my direction so feel free. (I am always more amused than angered at such things – and if your wit is really up to intelligent banter my friend – then sharpen your fingers and try sparring with me. There’s a challenge in there somewhere I think!) On the subject of happiness there is an age old argument (as I’m sure you know) about melancholy being a pleasurable state… and given the (willing or unwilling) cynic residing within you… I wonder whether you agree with that?

    VRWC (if you’re still about) – you have differentiated between joy and happiness. I like the fact that you attend to such detail and I happen to agree with you, but can you expand on this? (For example, CS Lewis believed that joy existed in moments – where as happiness was a state of mind. He also believed that true joy is to be found in the wanting of something, not in the having of it. What are your thoughts on that?)

    waxmephilosophical (if you’re still interested) – you said that Shea has given you enough to chew on for some time – so what conclusions did you come to?

    To all four and anyone else who stumbles across this – I’d love to hear from anybody on the subject of happiness, but in talking, let’s do ourselves a favour and remember (in the words of John Stuart Mill): “He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that.”

    Have a very pleasant day!

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    I'll address this.

    "Are human beings generally evil in nature, or generally good? If a human was given the best circumstances available, could that person possibly become evil? "
    From a christian veiwpoint, we are all born into sin. Sin is evil and the absence of sin is good. So I would say that humans are naturaly evil in nature. As for the second question I think that given the best circumstances you have an increased chance to become evil. Because you do not understand true pain or hardship and so have no way of understanding how good you have it. Well those are my opinions (I only thought about it for a few minutes so please forgive the simplicity of the view).

    JonUs
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    King of Plastic Spoons imthefoolonthehill's Avatar
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    I wouldn't call your view simple.

    I agree completely. Human nature is to be evil and immoral.

    Asa- Julia from 1984 talked about why B.B. didn't want them having sex. She said something like, "because after your done, you feel good, your happy, and you don't give a bloody rot for Big Brother, the 2 minutes hate" etc etc

    Notice she said, you're happy, you don't give a bloody rot for all this stuff B.B....


    So I guess it depends on your definition of meloncholy... I have two distinct, different feelings of meloncholy... One is what I call true Meloncholy... when I simply don't care about anything at all. When I am free of all worries, troubles, stresses. Or, when I can take those worries, troubles, and stresses and say to heck with 'em. I don't care.

    The other type of feeling... I don't think is meloncholy at all... but I don't give a .... then, either. This is when I get a big grin on my face, start laughing for no reason, and walk on air (for no reason at all... just because I have ceased to care)

    either way... I love meloncholy because it is a heck of a lot better than being stressed out, bored, angry, and sometimes even happy.


    And ASA... I believe you got Joy and Happiness switched around... Didn't C.S. Lewis think that Happiness was a momentary thing, whereas joy was a state of mind (if he didn't, then I find C.S. Lewis to be absurd in his thinking) Just an opinion... and I am entitled to my own stupid opinion, just like everyone else :-D
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    Well spoken ASA and well responded amthefoolonthehill.

    ASA - I felt that you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

    imthefoolonthehill - I felt, after reading Alcohol, that Shea was in the wrong, but also that you handled that poorly. Obviously, Shea was offended by your sarcasm; and, while I am more the kind of person to use sarcasm myself, I agree that once she got upset you should have backed off on the sarcasm a little bit.

    I also feel that this point has been made before i butted in.....but anyways.......

    In any case...I thank DumbLikeAPoet for his/her opinion....my sentiments exactly. I guess my opinion in this matter doesn't really make any difference, heads or tails, but there it is.
    But Beren said: 'It is fulfilled. Even now a Silmaril is in my hand.'

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    King of Plastic Spoons imthefoolonthehill's Avatar
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    anyone have any opinions on Melencholy or Human nature? ... Does anyone else find this interesting?
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    Comma Abuser Eric, son of Chuck's Avatar
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    From the Christian standpoint, yes, we are born into sin. However, as a Christian, I don't actually believe that humans are naturally sinful. We are exposed to sin from birth, and as a result have the potential for evil. Left unattended, this will certainly develop. That doesn't mean the it's human nature to be evil though.

    Evil is not the natural path. To be good, we must be positively influenced, and the same goes for being evil. The reason many people believe that we are naturally prone to evil is because we are exposed to it constantly, and as a result influenced. If we were not born into a sinful world, and were not exposed to good either, we would simply end up innocent/neutral.

    Forgive me if this makes no sense, as I've just had a couple refreshing daquiris after a long day at work. ;-) I look forward your (the collective you) responses.
    Yeah, I'm giving the 'wink' and the 'gun' like Ponch from Chips, big whoop wanna fight about it?

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    obviously, the natural inclination of man varies greatly from person to person; but, in general, most people would choose to benefit themselves given the opportunity...if most people found a few hundred dollars on the ground and no one else around, they would elect to keep it for their own good as opposed to giving it to a beggar or the police, etc. also, if someone is exposed only to good, then that person will likely become spoiled or bored. a life filled with good things and opportunities is usually quite dull. a person who is not exposed to evil will take his situation for granted and always see the evil path as one of mystery and excitement, having fun risking life and limb to survive. this intrigue would pull him toward the wrong path much more so than seeing his mother beaten and his siblings raped.
    But Beren said: 'It is fulfilled. Even now a Silmaril is in my hand.'

  15. #15
    King of Plastic Spoons imthefoolonthehill's Avatar
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    hmm... interesting thoughts... I agree with the part about the attraction of mystery being greater than the pull of evil influences.
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