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Thread: Salvation

  1. #1
    MANICHAEAN MANICHAEAN's Avatar
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    Salvation

    Salvation. Not something we talk much about these days, although in certain periods of English history there was almost an obsession with it.

    Elaborate services were held at one's demise. Indulgances were at one time even sold by the Established Church as a financial contribution to good works in ones mortal state, to ease one past the portals of Heaven.

    My question is, "What determines salvation?" Is it faith alone, good deeds?

    Or is this being simplistic?

    Perhaps there is no one solution, and the Father makes the final call.

  2. #2
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    Salvation from.......? Ourselves? God? Death? An overabundance of focus on salvation, of any sort, implies either personal guilt, original sin, or fear. The only one I care about is salvation from myself and my own lesser proclivities, bad habits, and poor instruction, and I am the only determiner through my own choice. I would say that you aren't being simplistic, but rather too complicating.
    Last edited by Ekimhtims; 03-17-2019 at 03:02 PM.

  3. #3
    MANICHAEAN MANICHAEAN's Avatar
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    Could not agree with you more regarding personal guilt or fear being a motivation. Can't quite get my head around the original sin bit though. Getting fussed and bothered over something the current "we" had no control over.

    Thanks for your thoughts.

    Best regards
    M.

  4. #4
    rat in a strange garret Whifflingpin's Avatar
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    No need to get fussed - maybe a more acceptable phrase might be "it is in our nature to sin." The idea of Jesus as Saviour balancing Adam as Sinner simply means that while it is in our nature to sin it is also in our nature to be good. (It is much easier for non-philosophers to talk about individuals, rather than abstracts - an analogy is that some English people might say they "serve the Queen," because that it would be impossible to enumerate all the meanings summed up in that phrase.)
    If one of our species can sin, then we are all capable of sinning, and, the reality is that we all do sin. If we could not point to a perfect specimen of our species then we might believe that we were doomed to sin. Indeed, attempts to make people behave in a better way are commonly met with the hopeless comment, "You can't change human nature." Given, however, that one of our species was perfect, the rest of us can be perfected. "Human nature" includes the capacity for good, and human behaviour can be improved, individually or collectively.
    As a species, or universe, we are not irrevocably separated from God because of our imperfections.

    One need not, of course, believe in God to accept the idea of salvation, but one needs to accept the idea of function or purpose. The discussion will make sense to any who accept that we are here for a purpose and that we have the choice of promoting that purpose or impeding it. It is, perhaps, more convenient to refer to God than to elaborate on the purpose of the universe etc.

    ["Salvation" in this context means "union with God" or "fulfilling one's purpose," as appropriate.]
    Last edited by Whifflingpin; 03-19-2019 at 10:05 AM.
    Voices mysterious far and near,
    Sound of the wind and sound of the sea,
    Are calling and whispering in my ear,
    Whifflingpin! Why stayest thou here?

  5. #5
    rat in a strange garret Whifflingpin's Avatar
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    "The only one I care about is salvation from myself and …"
    I am sure that is only a fraction of what you care about, given that you proclaim yourself to be on a trading mission. If, however, it were true, then you would be like a knife intent on keeping itself sharp and bright - a very good thing, obviously, but not an end in itself. The knife's purpose is to cut, and sharpness is pointless if the knife hides in the drawer.
    Voices mysterious far and near,
    Sound of the wind and sound of the sea,
    Are calling and whispering in my ear,
    Whifflingpin! Why stayest thou here?

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