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Thread: Quest In Reality

  1. #31
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    Jnani Where are you lost?
    Seeker I was ruminating over my helpless state.
    Jnani I know what are you thinking? You must bear in mind that I exist not only in your mind but also permeate in each and every cell of your body.
    Seeker But this time is the last I seek your help. Now when we reach your level (limit), I will forgo you forever and remain in the realm beyond you.
    Jnani But this is impossible. Nothing exists beyond me.
    Seeker Let us see!
    Jnani Bravo, but shallow words, anyway start….!
    Seeker You say, you permeate in each and every cell of human body but it cannot be, because your nature is of pure intelligence whereas human body is controlled by mind.
    Jnani Wrong. The activity of body is controlled by mind but the body discharges its functions automatically. You can compare it with a machine which operates on energy (me) and functions automatically.
    Seeker You imply that body and mind are separate, the mind only controls its activity!
    Jnani Exactly.
    Seeker Then what is mind?
    Jnani Mind is simply waves and waves of thoughts which it gathers through five senses, transmitted via brain.
    Seeker You mean mind is composed of ‘data’ it receives from brain which in turn is fed by the senses. Then what is its function?
    Jnani It discriminates the data stored in the brain and on that it establishes its identity.
    Seeker That shows you exist only in body cells and your ‘existence’ in the mind is only secondary.
    Jnani No (emphatically)! My existence in the universe is conscious and I transmit that conscious to the mind also.
    Seeker Meaning thereby, your existence is direct in both body and mind.
    Jnani Yes.
    Seeker This is contradictory. The data that is received by mind via brain is always incomplete and the other transmitted through the universe, as you say, must be ‘complete’. Here is the contradiction! Or are you leading me to believe that the ‘data’ you transmit direct to mind from the universe is in itself complete and it enlightens completeness the one received (incomplete) from the senses.
    Jnani Of course, my direct existence in the mind is only for this purpose. I improve and purify the data stored in mind. This is made possible by the quality of discrimination that is possessed by the mind.
    Seeker Do you exist in body or mind or intelligence (quality of discrimination) or in all of them?
    Jnani I have told you already, I exist everywhere, and my existence is eternal.
    Seeker But it seems your levels of existence are numerous!
    Jnani How?
    Seeker The data sent by the senses is incomplete; therefore the store-house of data is also incomplete. Naturally composition of mind which is waves of thoughts is also incomplete. Why do you reveal yourself in incomplete, when would you reveal your completeness, your wholeness if that is possible?
    Jnani I exist in veiled manner, only seeker like you realize my complete identity, which is pure-intelligence.
    Seeker How have you gone down from your pure-state to gross level (veiled self)?
    Jnani In my original state of mass-less void (casual) to mass-less (subtle) I assumed ‘activity’. In my former state I was whole, complete and had no second. After assuming ‘activity’ I became two. And then I transformed into my third state of manifestation (gross). Now I am in my third state of gross manifestation. But in each state I exist.
    Seeker But state of your existence has gone down from casual, subtle to gross. In each manifestation you have been forced to assume ‘latent’ existence. The role of your manifestation is visible by ‘outer’ activity, but you have been relegated. The conscious activity in each manifestation has created its own conscious level (intelligence) and you have been super-imposed. How would you regain your original state of statelessness when your identity has been covered by the conscious level of your manifestations which are in as many numbers as your conscious particles?
    Jnani Have you still not understood the meaning of “after the completion of each cycle of evolution I go back in my original”!
    Seeker This clearly indicates your misery; your salvation is linked with our salvation. You can not attain your original until we complete our completion (salvation) by completely identifying ourselves with you. Then it is in your own interest to hasten our journey of enlightenment.
    Jnani But that is not possible1 I am bond within my principle with which I have bonded the nature also. Each manifestation has to complete its course of evolution and transform itself into another till the ultimate manifestation is born, wherein the qualities of all previous manifestation found----the epitome of all qualities in which I shall abound in my three states (casual-subtle-gross).
    Seeker Without your ‘telling’ I understand, you mean human beings.
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  2. #32
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    Jnani Yes, human beings! He is the perfect model of all the evolutions (transformations) that took place so far. In him are available all the qualities that abounds in nature. All levels of consciousness found in nature are imparted in him. He is also above them because in him, I am embodied in my complete effulgence. In his destiny (journey) lies my salvation (completion).
    Seeker Man being your embodiment is something more also. He is capable to transcend you too and attain greater heights.
    Jnani I am again hearing your stale tune, the way I am forced to hear the same sound in my manifestations since their creation. I am bored hearing my own sound in my creations.
    Seeker It is your fault that you are hearing the same sound, but are not trying to decipher the music beyond it, the beauty, and the bliss from where you originated. Why don’t you try to find out its source? If you were the source, you would not be bored with it, rather be happy to hear so many variations of the source and enjoy their melodies. Even now it is time to realize your limitations and search with me, the Source, the Supreme-Reality---the One Truth, from whom you originated. But your problem I realize; you are ‘intellect’ and you are endowed with quality of reasoning, so you want proofs, the visible proofs, which are discern-able in your manifestations! But what did cause you, is invisible to you! Thus limited being your qualities, which force you again and again to observe your creations only, but your own-self!
    So far you have not been able to give a satisfactory answer about the cause of ‘activity’ in you. You tell me that it was caused by the composite ‘activity’ withdrawn from your manifestation, but what about the time, when the first, the original cycle of evolution was started by you; where from it got its activity? There are so many other questions, but they would come up gradually. Do not be adamant, give in; it is in humbleness lies real wisdom.
    Jnani Your aim so far has been to attain (realize) me. Why have you again gone into the vagaries of your mind?
    Seeker Then you admit, sir, the mind is full of ‘vagaries as you put it!
    Jnani Of course my manifestations, after using me a bit, super-impose me with their sub-realities.
    Seeker But there are no super-impositions, it is only their ignorance which they impose upon you.
    Jnani It is simply to convey that by relegating me to latent condition, they are living in their realities which are, of course, not realities but half-fed ‘data’ which they receive from their charged bodies. Charged senses transmit only incomplete ‘data’!
    Seeker So you also agree, the target of our search is man (human being). Let us begin our task in real earnest, sincerely and faithfully.

    Before our joint effort in search of reality could begin a novel experience happened, which in itself was unique and fully rewarding. Though at first I protested but later I realized that whatever I went through, was essential and my good old friend ‘intellect’ was right in making me a Ginny pig in his experiment, but I willingly associated in it and was magnificently rewarded, a soul raising reward. I am indebted to my friend and he deserves mysalutations and I salute to him in appreciation of his ‘experiment’.
    Jnani Since you have been my good disciple by acquiring worldly knowledge; ultimately stood up to me and now wishes to part my company. I can not let you off so lightly, as whatever you have been able to acquire that was because of my grace; otherwise you were a mere body immersed in its world of pleasures! It was me who raised you from gross level but now you confront me! This is the reward you give me, for all the troubles I took for you! Therefore I have decided now to put you back to the level, I raised you from. In case you raise yourself on your own, without my help, I would gladly join your efforts and help you in furthering your search otherwise you douse in the mire, where you were before I met you. However I will grant you three boons which would be essential tools for your rise. Three women would come into your life, in quick succession; each possessing one quality of ‘Tamo’ (sloth), Rajo (passion) and ‘Sato” (righteousness) respectively. If you are able to come out of their influence, you would meet me again, realize your present self, and otherwise spend your remaining days on earth, in the comforts of their qualities which would not be bad bargain!
    Seeker What are you doing to me?
    Jnani I am taking back your present consciousness, which is incidentally my boon and putting you in quite a different set up, which would suit you in your pursuits. But I am giving you back your lost youth. By the way, you are a good specimen of your specie. When I took you in my fold, you had good body charms, vigorous strength and a capable mind. I am giving you back all except your past environments (intellectual attainments) and consciousness.
    Seeker You mean you are taking back my memory and all that relates to my past. In nut-shell you are replacing my past, with a new (blank) one. But that could prove disastrous to me! Suppose I lose myself in your temptations (which you are presenting me in the shape of three women) I would be lost for ever. On the other hand, I would like to accept your challenge and achieve the same heights again without your help. I am willing to become a tool in the nefarious laboratory of your experiment. I will confront you again, because I am a seeker; put me wherever you like, I will seek and seek. That is my inheritance coming to me by genes. I will re-create the same circumstances (consciousness). Rest assure, do with me as you wish. I say audio to you, to my present consciousness. Goodbye.
    Jnani I ‘Will’ you to be……
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  3. #33
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    Umeshwari Shantnu, what I have learnt, through experience so far, is, body of its own does not give us pleasure. Neither sense organs nor senses of perception give us pleasure. It grows in our mind, by its contact with the world external, and senses create sensations which are transmitted to the brain and mind enjoys the scene. Then it is the mind, who is the sole master. Body or its senses are its mere tools.
    Shantnu So far, we can assume that.
    Umeshwari You imply there are other masters above the mind!
    Shantnu We shall take them one by one. Now we take only mind and we shall concern ourselves only with mind.
    Umeshwari What is the mind? It is not that big an enigma that we can’t understand. After all, it is in our body and like body; we can always control or direct it, the way we want.
    Shantnu Very wisely said. Now tell me, can you ever control anything, just anything in nature. Can you control rain, flow of rivers, growth of mountains/trees or any other thing which is part of the evolutionary process? You cannot. You can mutilate some parts of the nature but can’t stop or divert it from its predestined goal. Man may utilize its elements for his progress or destruction but the overall scheme of nature is fathomless, i.e., indestructible. After all, the very purpose of nature is to complete its prescribed course (of evolution) and shower its benefits of resources on the humanity at large. We can use its fruits and resources for the benefits of the humanity at large or for our destruction, is our choice.
    Human body and now mind is also its creation. We cannot control it. But it is, in our power, to use it for our benefit or destruction.
    Umeshwari If we can’t control it, and then it will control our lives.
    Shantnu The way we can’t control the nature, same way, we can’t control our mind. By controlling nature we would assume the power of its creation, which is unimaginable. The very process of nature lies in its own unique faculty of consciousness. Like it, the process of life on earth planet is based on consciousness. Whole existence, including living beings, is conscious and our existence is also conscious. Mind is nothing else but the faculty of consciousness by which we are able to observe our existence and that of the world.
    Umeshwari You mean, mind is the ability of consciousness derived from nature. If it is so, then why are we unable to perceive the whole universe?
    Shantnu We can become conscious of the whole universe, when our consciousness merges, with the consciousness of the existence itself, which is also known as supra-consciousness, supra-intelligence or cosmic-consciousness.
    Umeshwari Then how did we constrict our conscious level from cosmic consciousness to body-conscious level only? It is a big leap downward from dizzy height to an abyss.
    Shantnu By detaching ourselves from cosmic level to grosser levels i.e., by associating ourselves to physical world, we began to see ourselves as physical entities only and waste our lives in our pursuits of fulfilling our wants, needs, comforts and pleasures. If we withdraw our consciousness from cosmic consciousness and concentrate on objective world then we are nothing more than a physical object and we presume ourselves only as a body.
    Umeshwari It is a great misfortune, humanity has brought on itself. How can we regain our lost contact and again level with cosmic consciousness of which we are a part?
    Shantnu By understanding the objective world and its relevance to us, we can resume our journey to the realms hence lost to us or we might have become, willfully unconscious to them.
    Umeshwari Pray, continue fast. I am in a hurry to liberalize myself from this baser life of selfishness, where all energies are centered on our selfish ends and we spend our lives by fulfilling them. Why can’t man see that the purpose of his life is not to maintain him in luxurious surroundings but to know him also? We are part of a splendor, whose length, breadth is immeasurable, but we are satisfied by merely becoming its inert tool and not trying to know it. I am born of parents and want to know about them but I am a part of this colossal universe and I am not trying to know about it, what a shame!
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  4. #34
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    repeat
    Last edited by little-self; 05-25-2019 at 09:03 PM.
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  5. #35
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    Shantnu It is not that alarming as you assume. There are always some, who unshackle themselves and make a try. Knowing about our lineage is as important as knowing about our creation. Man has immense capacity and always dares the impossible. But knowing about one’s own-self is not a journey to outer realms; it is a journey from here to here. We start from ourselves and end the journey at our-self. It knows about the self and that was, and is, part of the grand splendor, as you call it.
    Let me start it, right now. I am really in hurry.
    Shantnu Not that fast, my dear. First we have to create perfect balance in us. That is, we become a normal human being. Only in normal condition would we be able to observe the worlds within and without. Before starting we must gauze the limits, the capacity of our tools, with which we undertake the endeavor.
    Umeshwari The only tool we require is mind.
    Shantnu You jump to the conclusions very fast. First, we shall have to know our present mind, its composition, how it functions and how it is fed with all the data, reactions and forms its opinions; its source of information and how far we can depend on its capability! We must know about its present state of affairs, its optimum capacity to observe, react, discharge, and its real relevance to the ground realities of external/internal worlds.
    Umeshwari You are assigning it a gigantic task.
    Shantnu Dear, don’t under-estimate it. It is a world unto itself. It has the capacity to store in it the entire knowledge of the universe.
    Umeshwari But it is a tiny fellow, confined in our heads. Such a proportionless limits are really in its realm, seem irrational!
    Shantnu To know the world and to acquire its total knowledge, the medium is only mind. So it is logical, it has the capacity to absorb the total knowledge.
    Umeshwari Such a tiny fellow, capable of encompassing the cosmos! What a pity, we have confined it, to body levels only.
    Shantnu Nothing strange, it is through the body that we come to know of it, the universe and the self (us).
    Umeshwari Why first we should know about the world and then venture inside and know it? Is knowingof the outside world necessary to know ourselves?
    Shantnu By knowing external, we know internal. Otherwise we are living in objective world and our mind is always involved with them. We can persuade it inward only if its tools make it aware about the faculty of external world, as nothing that it attaches to is permanent, hence incapable of giving everlasting joy or happiness, then it would withdraw from outside, not out of ignorance or as an escape but by understanding their utilities and their relevance to it (mind). Only then would it confine itself into itself and redirect itself to inner regions and seek to know about consciousness of which it was a part, shall again become a part to recover its wholeness.
    Umeshwari Seems a long journey and I was in a hurry. Atom by atom, item by item, we shall have to go along with it and try to know the objects which attract it. Instead of knowing the whole universe for that is its limit, should not we try to know the cause of its attraction, rather than the attraction itself? That would be easy and simple.
    Shantnu My dear, its present attraction lies in external world, the visible world, thus entire universe is its field of attraction. Knowingly or unknowingly it is leading towards its source.
    Umeshwari But its source lies in itself, as per your version, then why it seeks outside that lies inside.
    Shantnu It is logical as consciousness abounds in inert and living beings, equally but, used to as we are, it observes consciousness in existence, only of physical world. And when it knows about itself, it becomes a sole master of the objective world and revels in that only. It desires on and on the body-senses and pursues relentlessly its contact with the objective world and through them it seems to enjoy their fruits.
    Umeshwari Knowing about every object in the world and then bringing it back to itself involves an impossible exercise both for the knowledge and intellect. Insurmountable task lies ahead.
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  6. #36
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    Shantnu Not only that, you come across as many worlds inside that the present mind boggles and leaps in the pleasant sanctum known as shells. When it cannot encounter the world outside, it conveniently creates (imagines) its own and lies composed in them.
    Umeshwari I am really staggered to think about all this. Shall we really be able to come out of it or let ourselves wander with it to the words external or go with it to the shells, nursing in its realms?
    Shantnu Knowing the mind is, like a lost needle, in the vast expense of the cosmos and if at all we do find it, we have to thread it by a top-class intellect, pierce all the roaming cosmos, in a garland of wisdom and put it around the cosmic consciousness.
    Umeshwari To me it looks like a vast jungle, with no way inside. Every inch of land is full of dense trees, wild growth and wild life found in abundance. Above the jungle of mind, the space is full of slush of lower tendencies. How and from where to start, that is the problem. Even if we start at one point, shall it lead us across the jungle, even more severe in conditions than the one just traversed?
    Shantnu First step is the most difficult one. But the trail you leave behind shall be followed by the coming generations, not that such trails do not exist already. Too many, for too many, paths are available, each promises green pastures in the realms beyond but not two of them look alike. So in this journey, each one makes one’s own trail and finds the goal alone. Others may guide us, show us directions but their directions are according to the capacity/ability of their tools, with which they had made the trails. Every path leads to individual goal. The journey is very strenuous and lonesome, but rewarding. Take courage and plunge, we may find the way. But, first let us sharpen our tools so that we cut away the unwanted weeds and pursuer our goal.
    Umeshwari Shantnu, it is a very tiresome way. Can’t we pursue some other path?
    Shantnu It all depends upon the goal, you want to achieve. If you want momentary pleasures, body is the vessel. In case, you want happiness, you simply create balance between heart and mind. If it is bliss, suppress the mind, channelise your emotions and ride on temporary basis. Pleasure, happiness bliss or liberation, salvation (Moksh) are one thing but ultimate-reality is just another. If you seek it, knowledge-mind-intellect-wisdom is the only path.
    Umeshwari Is god, not the aim? Does not everything else subsume in HIM?
    Shantnu Umesh, you as usual, jump too fast. God is an unknown ‘commodity’ to me! So, I am unable to comment on Him.
    Umeshwari But is He, not an ultimate reality.
    Shantnu I refuse to comment. Right now, we are discussing only the mind, nothing else. If our joint endeavor takes us to reality level and we feel there is something beyond, definitely, we shall pursue that too.
    Umeshwari You are an obstinate one; always specific to the point, no aside digression. Unpopular teacher but with excellent charms!
    Shantnu My child angel, in the pursuit of knowledge, there should be no ambiguity, no double meaning talk. In this pursuit, we should have a dictionary which contains one word for each subject and each and every word is complete in itself. Love means love. It has no gradation as body-love, worldly-love, fatherly, motherly, sisterly, brotherly, or friendly love. It is one love that is common in all.
    Umeshwari Then a Jnani’s dictionary is very compact.
    Shantnu Truth or Reality is one word. Why should we need so many words to know about one word? From the vast vocabulary of man, -a seeker------ (at this word he again grips his head with both hands and presses-it mercilessly).
    Umeshwari Why this word, troubles you so much?
    Shantnu Umesh, I don’t know. It has something to do with my past. He felt exhausted by putting great strain on his latent memory, to recollect the relevance of the word ‘seeker’ to his forgotten past.
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  7. #37
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    Mercifully, they were relieved of the situation by the sudden arrival of Angelee, always smiling, as fresh as the ripe apples hanging overhead. It was good she lived in seclusion; otherwise her beaming smile would infer open invitation to the lonely hearts. It was Gobi’s love that was blossoming off-bonds which she could hardly contain.
    Once Shantnu had asked her,
    ‘Don’t you feel lonely here? Far away from the maddening crowds! Your son schooling at Shimla and here you both are living a life of seclusion.
    ‘No, uncle, we have found the meaning of life. We love reach other and that love sustains our lives. What more is there in the world!
    This was Angelee of Gopi (her husband), an urbanite of Manali; did her graduation in a renowned college of Jesus and Mary, now prepared to live, only on love! Outside world did not exist for them except for rare trips to Shimla, Kulu and Manali to see their son, meet her parents or buy some necessities of life. Otherwise, they sustained on each other.
    Shantnu loved them and so did Umeshwari. Their each gesture towards Umeshwari and now Shantnu was full of love, they spoke only one language and that was love, love in practice.
    Lunch today was different than the normal routine of juice. There was a big plate of salad and two bowls of tomato soup. Angelee brought them occasional variation to avoid staleness in taste.
    After lunch they sat in his room and relaxed. They observed complete silence. They even closed their eyes to avoid contact with each other. Their bodies were relaxed though minds were at the helm. Each was trying in his/her owning way, clear the weeds and carving a new trail. But plantation of tendencies had rooted deep and plucking them along with the roots, was a difficult task.
    Umeshwari Gopi and Angelee are so happy. They have sufficient means to settle in any city and they won’t feel at odds there as both are well educated. You know, my father, had given the orchard to me, as a gift which I further gave it to Gopi and Angelee. It was a ten acres orchard, which they have now expanded and improved. All the income goes to them, which is enough to support them, in case they settle in a city. But they prefer to live here. It seems, they get from each other, what they want. What I am angling at is, whether it is necessary to pursue ‘knowledge’ and seek realms, we are unaware! Can’t we live like Gopi and Angelee and he happy? After all, love is the ultimate goal. And we get it from each other, why bother our brains for higher states, whose attainment is, love too!
    Shantnu Umesh, we cannot realize total love unless we understand its tributaries of attraction, attachment, affection, compassion, kindness and lastly-love itself. We have to experience each state, finally, to merge in love.
    Umeshwari You had stated earlier, love could be attained through the richness of sensation, emotion and sensitivity, or by rationality and logic. The former comes by biological process of contact (it creates sensation), relation (sensation generates emotions) and finer sensitivity blooms love feelings,
    Shantnu Love achieved by this process would be local (individual and momentary.) As opposing sensations/emotions always attack, we would be swayed this or that way. For lasting and universal love rationality and logic are essential besides of course, emotional richness.
    Umeshwari So emotional love is momentary and confined only to the person we love or our love pours for him. Now one last question about body love, there is Tantric way of realizing love or bliss. What is that?
    Shantnu There is an ancient cult in India, known as Tantric. It is simply a way to extend ecstatic moments felt at the time of orgasm.
    Umeshwari Please explain. Why do you always feel shy of talking about sensual enjoyments?
    Shantnu I am not feeling shy or guilty. It is your chaste endowment that I feel a little out of the sorts. Otherwise from what I have been through, it looks like, I was a charging bull of some sort.
    Umeshwari You have been deporting yourself efficiently. Kamani, Devayana are living proof of it. Now about Tantric art!
    Shantnu Why are you insistent about sex and its enjoyment. Self indulgence is no enjoyment at all. Any way, Tantric cult had devised a physical science, by which body’s erotic zones (negative zone) could be controlled and made to obey. Constant practice, diabolical rituals promoted their stability powers and they indulged in sex, rituals, systematically and on prescribed rules. The ultimate purpose was to lengthen their ecstatically moments/feelings. They called these final moments as bliss. Pure hypocrisy it was. Actually, this black art of sensual enjoyment was invented too by the aristocracy. It gave them a free license to cohabit with any woman in the crowd. In a way, it was a show of mass-sex…
    Umeshwari Shantnu, is sex really so dominant that we revile under it and forget all the finer aspects of relationship? Why passion is so predominant in our lives?
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  8. #38
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    Shantnu All other negative tendencies direct us outward to possess or to destroy but passion is biological aspect and its hunger is, seemingly, satiated by the involvement of all the five senses. Now let us forget the topic or you would rather like me to…
    Umeshwari No! I did not mean that, I know, no woman can hold you for long. You are a philosopher; body or its senses are merely a wayward attraction for you. Your real tools are your mind and intellect. Other impediment you remove, like you have removed your past memories.
    Shantnu Umesh, nothing that exists in this world is useless or superfluous. Every object, live or inert has a specific role in the scheme of nature. Each sensation/emotion creates an idea, which again is a part of nature. Any act discharged, is also an extension of nature. Nature is not different from us. We are the nature, since we have inherited its rich treasures. It is another matter that we have dissociated ourselves from nature and are content in the enjoyment of its treasures.
    Umeshwari Life is a big morass. I am confused. Is there any way to come clean out this morass?
    Shantnu It is the first step, as you know, which is difficult. The second would automatically follow suit.
    Umeshwari Then let me take the first step! What is mind?
    Shantnu It is waves and waves of thoughts. It is not of solid mass, like our brain. But only the consciousness that observes reacts and discharges. For our convenience we can divide its function in three parts. The first we can name as gross-mind, which contacts an object and observes it. The second one makes assessment of the object, which we can call as sense of discrimination. The third one is, intellect; its function is to tell us whether the object is good or bad, for us. But to reach its (mind) third level; our mind and sense of discrimination had processed the data experienced through nineteen agencies viz. 5 sense organs, 5 senses of perception, 5five subtle airs, gross-mind, intelligence, the will and the ego. These are the nineteen agencies through whose experience our conscious makes it present workshop of ‘knowledge’. There are others also, like inherited and genetic factors. Now the ability or the capability of conscious depends upon the kind of experiences, our agencies go through. Normal conditioning of these agencies is of paramount importance. If any one of these is impaired or malfunctioning, then data sent would be trained, hence incomplete. Even if they function normally, other factors like earth’s atmosphere (which we shall call ‘local’ henceforth) solar family, and comics as a whole, influence our lives too. As local as well as cosmic influence are of vital importance for shaping our live…
    Umeshwari You have taken the entire cosmos as a starting point to understand ourselves. Really, burdens of humanity are enormous. And we are like a toddler grasping the stars-nay galaxies, nay cosmos. What a great inheritance!
    Shantnu I have told you earlier each one of us is a walking universe and all is contained already in our consciousness. Only we have to awaken it afresh.
    Umeshwari Alas, instead of being infinitesimal point in the universe, I could be part of its cosmic-consciousness!
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  9. #39
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    Shantnu You are very much a part of it, rather a part of the whole. But to know that, tremendous effort is needed. Now about mind; whatever object it contacts through senses, it attaches itself to that. If it likes, it develops attachment feeling or if it disapproves, it rejects. The initial contact creates feelings of like and dislike. You see, its reflexes are so quick, that immediately its three levels of observation (contact) discrimination and intellect; form opinions on the basis of its capability, arrived through such previous experiences. Its attachment to an object brings allied feelings of good/bad, gain/loss, and pleasure/pain, happiness/sorrow. All these feelings come because of its attachments. Attachment also creates the desire to possess and hoard, and the other negative tendencies take root and play havoc. Desire grows, lust, greed, anger, attachment and envy. These five negative tendencies erect (construct) a parallel identity to the conscious (ness) and is known as Ego. Whatever we desire for, crave for, we want to possess it. If others can have it, why can’t not I? Greed, anger, envy are the natural outcome of our mind’s attachments. So curbing the desire is the key.
    Umeshwari But the reach of our mind is the whole cosmos, how are we going to curb its desire to contact the entire universe and desist from desiring its objects?
    Shantnu Let we begin with attachments. It is the nature of mind to contact through senses. It should not, therefore, be checked of its nature. You must have observed that mind is a ficklest thing on earth. It is not constant and it goes from one object to another and on to another till it reaches the cosmos. There it cannot establish its contact so it comes back on earth and attach with the objects, with which it had, previously attached itself. Recurring contact creates in it an urge (desire) to know more about the object. Its desire to contact again and again develops attachment with that object. First it desires a physical contact which is also natural, as it is, presently, confined in physical body and it works through its organs or senses; it wants its container or its tools (senses) to establish physical contact. As its field of operational area is vast, sense of greed also grows in it to possess them all. Since it is physically impossible, it derives its body to increase its capacity and enlarge its sphere of influence. A few of its containers under its wile designs expand their area of influence. As its greed increases, so do the possessions of the container (body) increase? Vast empires are built on the destruction of suffering humanity. By now, it has assumed an identity of “I”. This “I” (ego) is associated with its possessions. It “I” is the master of its empire where its writ is regulated and obeyed.
    If we train our negative tendencies, objective world’s possessions become automatic. And in the course of possessing, greed, anger, envy and pride are handy tools. A man beset with these tendencies leaps downward and is degraded in the realms of perversion. If on the other hand it (mind) directs itself towards the positive tendencies, goodwill, universal brotherhood prevails on earth.
    Umeshwari Is attachment that bad?
    Shantnu Attachment is not bad. With it we establish relationship, brother hood and oneness of humanity. But when it comes under the spell of negative tendencies, prompted by desires, attachment becomes the source of unhappiness, loss and sorrow.
    Umeshwari How it becomes the source of unhappiness?
    Shantnu Take my case. I was attached to Kamani, Devayana; I don’t know how many others. What I sought in them? If it was body love, I should have been satisfied with any one of them. If it was beauty, they all were beautiful. But my attachment had sprung towards them by the desire of lust. And lust is a fuel contained in every woman’s body. I sought to fulfill my desire of lust, with any beautiful woman, I came into contact. Whether they used me or I used their bodies, is unimportant. Each sought the fulfillment of lust. But lust does not grow in the bodies but in mind. If we have to satiate lust, we shall have to fulfill it at mental level, not at body level. My subservience to one negative tendency of lust, brought in me its allies, greed envy and anger. If I possess a beautiful body of woman, my ego simmers in pride but if someone else, holds that body, my ego is hurt and I am ready to harm him. Here my tools are hatred and anger borne of envy. So, all the negative tendencies work in unison
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  10. #40
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    us a tendency to hoard all that we (mind) like. Discard all that we dislike. After all how much wealth can we acquire! How much natural resources, beauty can we hoard! All the riches of the world would not satisfy the hunger of a greedy. And greedy is the most miserly person on earth. He not only hoards whatever he had but keeps on acquiring by fair or foul means, more and more, depriving their usefulness to the needy, but keeping them in his stores to decay and rot. We need a house, a few necessities of life and a partner to share them with. But we acquire disproportionate to our basic needs. Nature has its treasurers for all humanity to share but a few greedy in the name of king (state) or Religion, control these treasures for personal profit. There are sufficient food grains to feed all the months on earth but every day there are news of people dying of hunger. A few are controlling, what was meant for all. In the name of valor or pride, wars are fought to extend the boundaries. But is it possible to divide the earth? Boundaries only exist in our minds, hence can’t be carved out on earth. Can we pierce the earth and divide in small segments? Greed, pride, envy and lust are the pillars on which stands the mansion of the mind (ego).
    Shantnu Well said. We should not lose our steam on the topics which are self-evident to us. We know negative as well as positive tendencies arise from mind. And desire is the only cause of their growth. It is also known that as many desires we (mind) create our liberation/salvation period lengthen likewise. As each desire has to be fulfilled and we might have to take as many births as the number of desires, but fulfilled they must be. It is the unshakable rule of the nature.
    Umeshwari You mean, every desire that creeps in our mind, has to be fulfilled. Each and every desire!
    Shantnu Yes madam. Our will power is the strongest sense in us. It is part of the cosmic-will. It was the will which created the universe. Intense desire in us impels energy forces to concentrate on the subject of our resolve. Intense concentration focus energy at one point and this increases our will power. To which direction concentrated energy is unleashed weaker forces sway under its assaults and the results are devastating.
    Umeshwari You mean if an ugly (person) develops his will power, he can win me over, or a weakling after acquiring will power, could win wars?
    Shantnu History is witness. In both cases, the will, will conquer.
    Umeshwari Even against my will!
    Shantnu Not if your will power is equally potent.
    Umeshwari I shudder at such a prospect. Anyway you are there to save me. Now about the villainous desires. Either we should fulfill them immediately or run the risk of so many births.
    Shantnu There is another way also. We can lessen our desires, and overcome the remaining, which are mostly irrelevant. Wherever our mind is attracted or attached, we should try to acquire knowledge about those subjects, their good/bad points. Utilizing the good for the benefit of others and rejecting the bad as not worth consideration. That way mind can be brought back and diverted to finer objectives in life.
    Umeshwari By that you imply, we should take away our mind from the external after having understood it and divert in inward. What actually is the inside?
    Shantnu When you come to that state of mind; you will realize, your mind just wasted itself on the external as everything it saw, contacted outside, and already existed in mind. Only it was not aware of its depth. After shedding away flimsy covers of ignorance, finally it dawns on it (mind), that whole world existed in it and it was wastefully pursuing journey in the far of cosmos. Pleasure, joy and happiness that it sought from worldly objects, are really vested in him (mind). Countless lives are spent in realizing this fact.
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  11. #41
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    Umeshwari Greed is equally destructive. Second outcome of desire and attachment, creates in us a tendency to hoard all that we (mind) like. Discard all that we dislike. After all how much wealth can we acquire! How much natural resources, beauty can we hoard! All the riches of the world would not satisfy the hunger of a greedy. And greedy is the most miserly person on earth. He not only hoards whatever he had but keeps on acquiring by fair or foul means, more and more, depriving their usefulness to the needy, but keeping them in his stores to decay and rot. We need a house, a few necessities of life and a partner to share them with. But we acquire disproportionate to our basic needs. Nature has its treasurers for all humanity to share but a few greedy in the name of king (state) or Religion, control these treasures for personal profit. There are sufficient food grains to feed all the months on earth but every day there are news of people dying of hunger. A few are controlling, what was meant for all. In the name of valor or pride, wars are fought to extend the boundaries. But is it possible to divide the earth? Boundaries only exist in our minds, hence can’t be carved out on earth. Can we pierce the earth and divide in small segments? Greed, pride, envy and lust are the pillars on which stands the mansion of the mind (ego).
    Shantnu Well said. We should not lose our steam on the topics which are self-evident to us. We know negative as well as positive tendencies arise from mind. And desire is the only cause of their growth. It is also known that as many desires we (mind) create our liberation/salvation period lengthen likewise. As each desire has to be fulfilled and we might have to take as many births as the number of desires, but fulfilled they must be. It is the unshakable rule of the nature.
    Umeshwari You mean, every desire that creeps in our mind, has to be fulfilled. Each and every desire!
    Shantnu Yes madam. Our will power is the strongest sense in us. It is part of the cosmic-will. It was the will which created the universe. Intense desire in us impels energy forces to concentrate on the subject of our resolve. Intense concentration focus energy at one point and this increases our will power. To which direction concentrated energy is unleashed weaker forces sway under its assaults and the results are devastating.
    Umeshwari You mean if an ugly (person) develops his will power, he can win me over, or a weakling after acquiring will power, could win wars?
    Shantnu History is witness. In both cases, the will, will conquer.
    Umeshwari Even against my will!
    Shantnu Not if your will power is equally potent.
    Umeshwari I shudder at such a prospect. Anyway you are there to save me. Now about the villainous desires. Either we should fulfill them immediately or run the risk of so many births.
    Shantnu There is another way also. We can lessen our desires, and overcome the remaining, which are mostly irrelevant. Wherever our mind is attracted or attached, we should try to acquire knowledge about those subjects, their good/bad points. Utilizing the good for the benefit of others and rejecting the bad as not worth consideration. That way mind can be brought back and diverted to finer objectives in life.
    Umeshwari By that you imply, we should take away our mind from the external after having understood it and divert in inward. What actually is the inside?
    Shantnu When you come to that state of mind; you will realize, your mind just wasted itself on the external as everything it saw, contacted outside, and already existed in mind. Only it was not aware of its depth. After shedding away flimsy covers of ignorance, finally it dawns on it (mind), that whole world existed in it and it was wastefully pursuing journey in the far of cosmos. Pleasure, joy and happiness that it sought from worldly objects, are really vested in him (mind). Countless lives are spent in realizing this fact.
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  12. #42
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    Gopi announced their dinner time. Boiled vegetables, ample salad they partook and left for a stroll. Noon time discussions had exercised their minds and they felt exhausted. Fresh mountainous air pumped pure oxygen in their lungs and again they reverberated with vigor. At seven they came back and resumed their dialogue in her room. Gradually their bodies had adjusted to new routine and, without any visible indication, moved or behaved accordingly. His room became convenient for meditation and conversation, during afternoon. Whereas in her room they preferred to remain in natural dress, and while holding each other, talked and relaxed. Their contact of bodies was always spontaneous uninhibited and natural. Their mutual exploration had stopped. Now they basked in each other’s beauty, beauty of bodies and personalities. As the level of their discussions progressed, they automatically extricated from each other and supported themselves individually.
    Umeshwari Is it possible to realize Reality, without love?
    Shantnu No.
    Umeshwari Love between man and woman is essential!
    Shantnu Of course, realization of reality is impossible for a person, who has not loved. A man, who has not loved a woman, can’t hope for realization.
    Umeshwari Loving is alright, without being loved!
    Shantnu Umesh, it is our love that we seek and feel in others. If our heat is bereft of love feelings, other’s love would simply be contacting a stony heart. Unless love blooms in us, we are unaware of its feelings, hence, unable to respond. Respond, we shall, but in lower forms. That would be bestial combats not love’s envelopment. As regards love between man and woman it is not a love between two genders but meeting of energies, positive and negative. Contact between man and a woman is not a love between two genders but meeting of energies, positive and negative. Contact between them created existence. Our origin is because of their contact. If they remain separate, life process would stop. Their very composition in nature created likewise life, in living as was well in inert. Nothing that exists in nature is a single gender. Male cells exist side by side the female cells. If nature exists on this principle, contact of man and woman is natural. And love is the final outcome of their meeting. The initial force of attraction in opposite energies is the binding force of love. It is not only a force but a bond that knits the whole universe in one unit. Outwardly, all may appear multifarious or separate but there is definite bond that unites them all. It is this bond that compels us to seek our roots. The cosmos are on move along with all their ‘existence’; where it is going, to the nether world? It is moving towards its source. Similarly, evolutionary process of life, is also moving, progressing towards a goal and that goal is its source. Genes tell us to move towards lost goal…
    Umeshwari Sorry for interruption, but it is a fact; I once saw a tele-film of Christopher, a naturist geologist. It began with a big lake which was richly populated with different varieties of fishes. What struck me was, all the fishes were moving towards opposite direction. All were moving against the flow of water. They were going towards the source of water. But the lake had been formed with the waters of a stream coming from up hills. Its source was about 200 km. from the big lake and there were scores of falls en-route. But the fishes were overcoming them, by jumping and crawling along the crevices but the most startling part was; they sometimes did very unnatural act. When confronted with big waterfalls, which they could not jump over or negotiate, they simply came out of the water and crawled and jumped on the stream banks. Majority of them died out of water, but a few had made it to the upper waters. By the time, some of them reached the small lake, situated at the top of a hill, they had evolved through many a generations, as their forefathers had perished on the way and those who reached the source, were their great grand children. This indicates the succeeding generations had received the message about the source, through genes.
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  13. #43
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    Shantnu Right you are. And love is our source. As fishes natural habitat, is water, our is earth,satmosphere which is composed of sound, image and air. Images and sound stored in earth’s atmosphere are our subtle bodies. Whatever sound we create is stored in space along with the image we reflect. They are permanently stored not only in earth’s atmosphere but they roam in cosmos. Air’s barrier is its (earth) atmosphere but sound and images roam around for ever. These are stored in chronological form. At one point, images leave the sound and sound alone travels ahead. These two are, really our waters (natural habitat), with whose help, we shall go back to our original source.
    Umeshwari How is that, I don’t get you?
    Shantnu Umesh, you notice from TV that an anchor’s voice and image reach us simultaneously. His/her voice and image don’t run to us, but are carried by pulses and pulses are composed of particles. It means sound and images, come to us via particles. And particles never evaporate. They are there forever. Someday, we will be able to hear our old voices, see our old images, created in past lives. These pulses were created by our bodies and transmitted by sound vibrations; the same pulses we generate and transmit through our sound and image, to the entire universe.
    Umeshwari It means the past and present pulses generated by us are stored in particles for ever.
    Shantnu Not only that but even the pulses generated by inert world, are also stored for ever.
    Umeshwari That also indicate particles are conscious and they have immense storage capacity.
    Shantnu Our head is small, smaller still is our brain and its cells are even still smaller. Imagine the size of the conscious which abides in them. We can presume the size of consciousness (mind) is equal to that of a particle. This small particle of ours is capable of storing the total knowledge of the cosmos. Scientist will, someday, invent a ‘pulse-meter’ capable of decoding all the stored voices and images, in those particles.
    Umeshwari What kind of energy empower them to function?
    Shantnu Madam, scientists have gone to the sub-atom field level and have found that three fourth parts of the particles is vacant (space) and the remaining one fourth is a mass moving around at an astronomical speed. They are real unifier of the cosmos and their living conscious too. They take their energy from love, whose source is also love. And love is not energy. It is the creator of energy. You know, love is not explosive but sublime. And the nature of particles is also sublime.
    Umeshwari But, love sometimes takes the forms of voluptuousness, lust and passion.
    Shantnu When explosive energy field engulfs it, it degenerates in the company of lower tendencies but it never loses its original nature. Only, lower tendencies give it different forms. You must have observed, the particles absorb heat and cold but remain in constant form. They are excellent absorbent of heat, cold or their numerous variations but they themselves are unaffected.
    Umeshwari So we have to concentrate our mind to its original state and that is possible only if we withdraw it from objective world. But won’t we constrict it by withdrawing from external world?
    Shantnu We have just known the size of our ‘conscious is very small like a particle but it is linked to cosmic consciousness via dancing particles, abounding the entire universe.
    Umeshwari That shows by withdrawing we don’t lose contact with the world outside but become rather, more aware. How to do that?
    Shantnu Going by the same route, pulses had transmitted the sound and images. When our mind contacts an object, a sensation arises in our body. Pulses seemingly enter our pours and via nerves, create sensation. Picking their impulse from brain cells, emotion engulfs us. The mind decodes these emotions and an idea (thought) is born. In other way, if we want to recollect or remember a scene, a person or an association, our mind focuses at the relevant memory chamber (center); it scans and segregates the emotions stored therein. But there are trillions of emotions in each of its memory center and each caters to one subject only
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  14. #44
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    Umeshwari What is the difference between the storage system of space and brain?
    Shantnu Baser life, engrossed in lower tendencies, exude similar sounds and images, which are stored in lower levels of earth’s atmosphere. As earth’s atmosphere is the basis for our life on earth, so anything relating to earth, is confined within its atmosphere. Vibrations of lower tendencies remain within earth’s atmosphere. As the level of thoughts assumes more subtle forms their sound and images rise above the confines of earth and reach higher levels. But our mind is choosy. It has developed a sense of likes/dislikes, good/bad, gain/loss etc. and it attaches itself more towards positive side than the negative. So baser emotions (ideas) though initially stored at lower levels but mind relegate them further to its far niches.
    Umeshwari But there are subtle ideas in its repository, such as, its own creations (shells). The world it has created with its imaginations, not based on actual experience but entirely its creations: Are those also stored in the brain cells?
    Shantnu Positively. As ideas are the language of decoded emotions, the ideas (thoughts) it store in the cells, are as a result of its (senses) experiences, as well as the one’s it created in its imagination. What it could not enjoy through its normal mediums of senses, it creates similar, even better situations (in its imagination) and revels in them. The emotional content of these emotions is a bit stale; that’s why it hankers after worldly objects again and again. But its (mind) power of imagination is as potent as that of the creational force. Besides taking pleasure from objective world it creates a better world in its imagination and enjoys their subtle fruits.
    Umeshwari Then what is the difference between the two? In one case it contacts the external world and in second it creates its own world but in both the cases it enjoys their fruits in subtle form.
    Shantnu First idea (thought) was born as a result of actual experience or via visual contact, whereas the second one is based on delusion created by it (mind).
    Umeshwari Then imagination has further made our task more complicated. Firstly, it is the incomplete data received via incompetent nineteen agencies and to top that it (mind) has created its own agencies like, fantasy, auto-suggestion, imagination and intuition etc.
    Shantnu Auto-suggestion and intuition are quite different. Auto suggestion is a means to correct its direction whereas intuition comes from deeper regions, which are out of its reach.
    Umeshwari It is really a wile fellow. It craves for enjoyment and gets it from any source or it creates, recreate its own worlds, situations, persons or conditions and try to experience the same enjoyment from them by exciting similar emotions. Now I get your points. I will try to trace back the origin of an idea. My mind now thinks that I love you. The idea of love is based on the emotional attachments I have developed with you. And the cause of my emotions was a unique sensation, I felt in your company which I had not felt with others as strongly as I did with you. Those sensations were the result of initial contact when my mind, through its agencies, felt attracted by your body charms, beauty and the contours with which you disposed yourself. Your pulses or mind entered my pores and my body exuded those vibrations in the shape of sensations. So my memory cells have stored these love feelings the intense moments when I feel strong emotions in your company. When I am sitting alone, in my memory, I remember that moment, every detail of our contact and I feel thrilled. Even when you are lying in the next room your memory gives me more pleasant feelings than your actual presence. It shows initially body contact is essential but when one loves a person as I do, then one can sustain on pleasant memories alone. The body is relegated to personality which too transforms in to a memory.
    Shantnu Rightly observed. But mind has another aspect also, a dangerous one. It seeks shelter…
    Umeshwari Mind and shelter! These two are opposite poles, as it is the mind can, which can make a man realize the ‘Reality’ and also make, him master of the world! Genius, scholars, scientists, great generals, explorers, astronauts and what not, it can create if its energies are channeled that way. Or it can make top-class criminals, despots, evil geniuses, if baser tendencies are focused this way. It can take a man to dizzy heights in arts and music and other forms of finer qualities or it can make him a Satan. Both ways mind achieves the optimums. But it seeks shelter! I am baffled by your statement. Sometimes you become a dangerous teacher.
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

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    Shantnu You have tagged me with too many epithets…
    Umeshwari Oh, no, epithets and that too for you!
    Shantnu I know I am still a living entity. But the adjective and the prefixes, you are tagging to, is a dead person. Previously you said I am a philosopher. I know I am not a philosopher. So I did not protest because if I am called a person that I am not, the fault lies with the person who categorizes me as such. And if on the other hand, I am labeled with a quality that I possess, again I am not bothered or elated because I know that already.
    Umeshwari Such equanimity only a philosopher possess.
    Shantnu Umesh ‘possess’ word forebodes the sense of pride, whereas the fact is, I possess nothing. When you met me I had nothing valuable with me except a cloth bag…
    Umeshwari By the way, what that bag contains? Perhaps, it might contain a key to your past.
    Shantnu Surely, a key to my past, but not a key with which I can open my closed door of lost memory.
    Umeshwari But by your knowledge, it is obvious, you are…
    Shantnu Use the word ‘seeker’. Now I do not mind. It bothers me no longer. I have come to know that my memory loss (relating to my past-person) is not connected with any accident or incident. I have thoroughly analyzed; it is not a case of memory lapse otherwise I would not be able to use my ‘knowledge’ (intellect) which, definitely I acquired before I lost my memory! I recollect every book I read, but can’t recall where I read them. Past people, past places and past relationships are completely wiped out except a bit of intellect, which I have, seemingly regained by digressing with you. So I am not going to open my bag till I regain my past, of course, you can, if you desire so.
    Umeshwari Some day, I will. Now about ‘shelter’ aspect of mind!
    Shantnu Our mind, powerful as it is, sometimes behaves at such a low level that it seems illogical to associate it with zenith heights it is capable of achieving. It becomes so weak that even weaklings (in animal categories) become giants, when compared to it in that state of level. By its nature of contact, desires impel it for attachments, affection and love. Where it does not receive a positive response, either it grabs that object and destroys it or it conceives a better one in its imagination. But, when it is over-powered with intense feeling of liking, it obstinately remains attached. Danger to life, self humiliation, abuses or thrashing does not shy it way. But in the height of passion, it derives its vessels to that object. You might have seen people trailing you like a dog. You may spurn, abuse or even threaten them with dire consequences, but under the influence of their passion, they are braced to you, like a vine. They are so much enamored of you, they will submit, yield, degrade to any depth just to hear your voice, a whiff of concern or a word of sympathy would enthrall them and they would swoon in joy.
    Umeshwari But, it’s their weak will-power, lack of love and sympathy, that prompts such behavior.
    Shantnu Right, but weak will-power is also the state of our mind. It is the same mind that scales Mount Everest and it is the same mind that bends before your beauty. Mutual love creates sense of equanimity, whereas in the present case, the supplicant is displaying his weakness of character. He is not even in the grip of positive or negative tendencies. He is devoid of them. Even his passion is not charged completely under the spell of his weak mind.
    Umeshwari May be his weakness is the result of denied benefits of society; or he is really in love. Madness of love stoops a man to any levels.
    Shantnu Denial of benefit should not weaken a person; he should endeavor to rise above them. As regards, madness of love, love does not deprave or degrade a person but on the other hand, makes him fully contained, like Gopi and Angelee. Love does not beg or borrow. It does not require two persons to love but just be one-self. You say that you love me. Have I so far responded to your love? But you have not supplicated yourself, or submitted like a weakling. You are, as I observe, full of self-confidence. If ever, I also love you, like you do, we shall be fully contained in each other. It is not your fault. My heart has not, as yet, developed such strong emotions, which could turn them into love. Not that I am feeling barren. I am intensely involved with you and I have strong feelings of liking but love has not bloomed in me so far.
    Umeshwari Now, I understand what you are deriving at; submission, cowardice and pity, deceit and betrayal are also its characteristics. Are these inherited or acquired?
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

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