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Thread: Scottish Highland Clearances (1: the problem)

  1. #16
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    I am re-reading a thin book I have on Old Aberdeen: Bishops, Burghers and Buildings (1991, edited by John S. Smith). Aberdeen has one of Scotland's oldest universities. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...es_in_Scotland. Oldest is St Andrews, followed by Glasgow, then Aberdeen. It has 2 colleges, Old Aberdeen (Kings, founded in 1495) and a newer College in Central Aberdeen (Marischal College)_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marischal_College, which is the largest granite building in Scotland. The Sociology Department, where I was, is still in Old Aberdeen. I spent a lot of time walking about the Auld Toon. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Ab...berdeen_campus
    Last edited by Dreamwoven; 11-15-2017 at 06:06 AM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamwoven View Post
    PompeyBum remind me in a message about crofts. We in fact live in one, so that was a useful reminder to me to write about it, however limited. its a small house, surrounded by pine forest.
    Very interesting, DW. Do you mean in Sweden? Is it an old historical house or an architectural style (a "crofter's cottage")? It's sad how little people remember the suffering of the Scottish people under the croft system. (My tablet's predictive spelling is pretty sure I'm trying to say crochet). It's sad how few have heard of the Highland Clearances for that matter. Maybe these things are remembered in Europe--I don't know. Few have heard of them over here.
    Last edited by Pompey Bum; 11-15-2017 at 09:59 AM.

  3. #18
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    Yes, they have crofter cottages here too, but not the class system to do what happen in Scotland.

    John Prebble learned of them while in Canada, from Scottish settlers. Though with time the memory fades, and next generation is likely to forget altogether. But then that is why Prebble wrote the books, to preserve the record.

  4. #19
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    I just learned that the croft system was originally intended as a way to sustain populations during the Highland Clearences. I thought it was much older--it just seems so damned Medieval. It also survives in parts of Scotland today, although there is more security over one's tenancy now. Still, it's amazing that such an ugly wart hasn't been burned away yet. On the other hand, the de facto perpetual debt of the 19th century crofters reminds me a little of the mortgage/educational loan/car loan/kids educational loan/perpetual credit card debt that keeps Americans in hock to the banks for most of their lives. Our lifestyles are better than the crofters' were, but the bank is still the laird. So maybe it's more of a historical tumor than a wart--malignant and hard to get rid of.
    Last edited by Pompey Bum; 11-15-2017 at 01:28 PM.

  5. #20
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    Yes, today the croft is part of the home-ownership system. In Sweden we own our croft debt-free. It is small and with the minimal amenities, so appreciates quite slowly and is just used as a home, the croft land may be kept up but rarely with the intensity of the old-style subsistence crofters.

  6. #21
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    I met Kerstin in Edinburgh, we married and moved to the USA, Minnesota University, where I was going to do a Ph.D. in symbolic interaction. That was in 1971. But there was only a first year course in symbolic interaction, so we came back to Europe, and I eventually got my doctorate in symbolic interaction from Gothenburg University. Anyway, being in Aberdeen I had a good look round Old Aberdeen, so saw many of the older streets which were named after the craftsmen who lived there in the old days (like Wrights and Coopers Place - https://www.britishlistedbuildings.c...place-aberdeen, where the original barrel-makers lived. Barrels were then the main form of transporting and storing ale, as well as fish (in Scotland, herring was the main kind of fish) and other consumer goods that could be salted before being barrelled.

    Links:
    This coloured map with images of the main Old Aberdeen landmarks - St Machar's Cathedral, the Botanical Gardens, King's College, the Town House, and the Brig o' Balgownie is probably all most people would be interested in - but anyone interested in Medieval History will find this link interesting.
    https://www.abdn.ac.uk/events/docume...deen_trail.pdf

    Old Aberdeen remains a major tourist attraction for those interested in the rise of a university town.

    See also:
    https://www.britishlistedbuildings.c...place-aberdeen
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercat_cross

  7. #22
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    That must be the source of your interest in Scottish history.
    "I seemed to have sensed also from an early age that some of my experiences as a reader would change me more as a person than would many an event in the world where I sat and read. "
    Gerald Murnane, Tamarisk Row

  8. #23
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    Yes, it certainly is. That entire course, including John Prebble's lectures on the Highland Clearances was a transforming event for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamwoven View Post
    Yes, today the croft is part of the home-ownership system. In Sweden we own our croft debt-free. It is small and with the minimal amenities, so appreciates quite slowly and is just used as a home, the croft land may be kept up but rarely with the intensity of the old-style subsistence crofters.
    Interesting as always, DW. One could say, I suppose, that in Sweden the state has become the new laird (as opposed to the banks in America). Still the security of a debt-free croft must be reassuring. Over here, it is quite possible own a home and live without debt (unless you count tax, which is probably much higher in a country like Sweden). But it requires years of mortgage payments and careful discipline with credit cards and other kinds of debt. But there is a genuine feeling of freedom when you get there.

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    Well in Sweden you only need to look north of Stockholm and be prepared to move into Gästrikland, or even further if necessary. I had a stroke at the time and Kerstin looked north, finding this croft, bought it. Most of my savings went into increasing my pension. This was in 2010, getting on for 9 years ago, we were lucky also with the Zero Interest Rate Policy (ZIRP) that the Federal Government adopted, so my pension has not been eaten way by inflation...My wife consulted with me frequently before buying.

    Of course , in the US you would have to look for somewhere in northern Canada to be able to buy anything, a bit like us going north to Norrland. But w are both older so that is possible for us, we don't have jobs that tie us down. We all know that ZIRP won't last for ever, so it is a matter of being economically cautious. But many are not like that, they gamble with their futures. ZIRP will likely ruin many when it comes to an end.

  11. #26
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    Actually, affordability here varies from state to state and especially from town to town. You don't have to go to severely cold states to get cheap, but there are some excellent tax breaks there. Still, there are great prices in states like New Mexico and parts of Texas, where it's hot and arid. I live in the relatively cold Northeast, and the prices are outrageous. It's hard to generalize about America because there's always someplace different.

  12. #27
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    That was interesting. Pompey. Learned something there about America.

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    Thanks, DW. I always learn so much from your interesting posts (and life).

  14. #29
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    There are at least 2 books on Old Aberdeen, the one mentioned above and one on Mediaeval Aberdeen, also edited by J. S. Smith. The site of Old Aberdeen was based on St. Machar's Cathedral and the Canonry (where the Canons lived) which was higher ground as was the Town House and the Square it was built on. More land needed to be drained and given oak timber foundations as a basis for construction. King's College, with its Open Crown, was also in this area, as were the staff and students of the college.

    Many of the merchants lived southward of this, and can be recognised by the names of the streets. I have already mentioned Wrights and Coopers Place, and there were many others too. So the town spread southwards towards New Aberdeen in a ribbon development (see post #21 and check the map!).

  15. #30
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    I have not been able to find a map of Old Aberdeen as it was at the time of the founding of the college, but there is such a map at this link: https://www.abdn.ac.uk/events/docume...deen_trail.pdf. You will need to scroll down to get to the map.

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