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Thread: Thomas' Gospel.

  1. #106
    MANICHAEAN MANICHAEAN's Avatar
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    Saying 51.

    His disciples said to him, “When will the rest for the dead take place, and when will the new world come?” He said to them, “What you are looking forward to has come, but you don’t know it.”



    From this saying Jesus would appear to say to the disciples on the first question that they had missed the point, because the “rest” belongs not to the dead, but to those that have begun to interpret the sayings. (i.e., The rest is for the living, not the dead.)

    Likewise in the second part this does not apply to future events.

    I find it interesting that this saying emphasises the immediate and present state of fulfilment offered to the seekers in this Gospel, that life can be realized fully before death. So much for the concept of purgatory and worrying about the Final Judgement!!

    It is also worthy to note that Jesus in this Gospel in presenting himself as living in the community underscores that the present moment, not the past and not even the future, has a greater value.

  2. #107
    Registered User NikolaiI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MANICHAEAN View Post
    Saying 49.

    “Jesus said, Blessed are those who are alone and chosen, for you will find the Father’s domain. For you have come from it, and you will return there again.”

    This saying opens up a whole can of worms and one can understand that out of all the early Christian writings some were very much not in tune with the orthodox thinking of other Gaspels.



    It marks the seekers of truth under two distinct headings: those who are alone and those who are chosen. And it pronounces the blessing only upon those who are both alone and chosen. So much for the universality of man and redemption!

    Also note that those designated as “you” now understand themselves as having their origin in the Kingdom, and as having their goal to return to the Kingdom. Shades of reincarnation akin to Buddhist doctrine.
    No.

    Why do you think blessing one means cursing others?

    You are blessed, and so am I. Why would one being blessed mean that others are not?

    Very faulty. But thank you very much for the posts.

  3. #108
    Registered User NikolaiI's Avatar
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    In any case, thanks (I guess)???? for posting this. I read the whole thing today. There's a few or quite a lot but certainly the only "Gnostic" I ever met was one of the cruelest and most vindictive people I ever met in my life. And -- verse 114 is insane, and quite clearly so, and also quite clearly out of place in the whole thing. but again, "Thanks."

  4. #109
    Registered User tailor STATELY's Avatar
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    Just strolling by...

    "Also note that those designated as “you” now understand themselves as having their origin in the Kingdom, and as having their goal to return to the Kingdom. Shades of reincarnation akin to Buddhist doctrine."

    I don't know about reincarnation, but a pre-mortal and post-mortal Kingdom is a tenet of my Christian faith

    Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
    tailor
    tailor

    who am I but a stitch in time
    what if I were to bare my soul
    would you see me origami

    7-8-2015

  5. #110
    MANICHAEAN MANICHAEAN's Avatar
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    Hi NikolaiI & tailor STATELY.



    I must confess that it came as a surprise to actually get two responses in one day to this thread. For what seems like ages, many individuals had visited it on Lit Net Forums, but any input on their parts had been non-existent.

    In the early days when I started the thread back in September 2017, the aim was to explore and give a personal commentary on one of the earliest writings in the development of Christianity.

    Luckily in those days, giants walked the earth and the likes of Pompey Bum and others were there to guide and contribute. After that, it became more or less an exercise in self-indulgence into which I could dip from time to time.

    Anyway, let me respond to the points you have raised.

    NikolaiI please note that Saying 49 as I read it, seems to give a blessing to the “chosen,” but there is no mention of a “curse” on the rest. It does not follow logically that blessing one, means cursing others. It only goes so far as to make a distinction between two groups.

    I personally agree, (leaving the Saying to one side,) that we are both blessed. If I understand the concept of Gnosticism correctly, they make reference to man possessing what they term “a divine spark.” The contradiction, (of which there are many in these writings), seems to be that only the seekers and finders obtain this. An implication perhaps, that it's implicit in all men, but only ignited in the seekers.

    Like yourself, my own experience of cruelty in so called men of faith leaves one wary; and that includes a number of religions. At the current juncture, the sight of Putin attending an Easter service is to me repugnant; encompassing as he does the total repository of evil on a mortal scale, by his actions in Ukraine and elsewhere.

    Saying 114. You are way ahead of me, but I did a quick check. It seems on the face of it like nonsense. But one of the things that I have had to learn in looking at these sayings is “What are they really trying to say, by mixing up specific beliefs with inappropriate examples?”

    tailor STATELY

    Yes, this saying seems very much akin to the concept of reincarnation in the Buddhist doctrine.

    What do you mean by a pre & post mortal Kingdom? Is it a fixed entity, with mortal life as a brief interlude? If so, I can understand it.

    Best wishes to you both for the weekend.

    M.
    Last edited by MANICHAEAN; 05-07-2022 at 09:50 AM.

  6. #111
    Registered User NikolaiI's Avatar
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    It is a hateful lie

    If you see 20 Buffalo, and one ostrich, obviously the ostrich is our of place.

    I'm not interested in correcting you or helping or teaching you. ❤❤

    Keep doing what you're doing.

  7. #112
    Registered User NikolaiI's Avatar
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    Of course I'm ahead of you. And of course I didn't read what you wrote. 2 things are all I will say:
    There is a place for all liars in hell,
    And a lying tongue hates those it crushes.
    This "gospel" is pure B.S. obviously.
    And hateful.

    You can see the fruit and if you see a Gnostic, run. Or fight.

  8. #113
    Registered User NikolaiI's Avatar
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    (New thread.)

  9. #114
    MANICHAEAN MANICHAEAN's Avatar
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    Don't you just love a keyboard warrior?

  10. #115
    Registered User NikolaiI's Avatar
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    I love a Nihilist!!!!!!!!!!!!
    What a piece of work!!!!!!!!!!!

    "Jesus said, we'll make her a man, then she can go to heaven"

    Abomination!
    Psychosis!
    Pure hell!
    Get out of here! ❤

  11. #116
    Registered User tailor STATELY's Avatar
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    What do you mean by a pre & post mortal Kingdom? Is it a fixed entity, with mortal life as a brief interlude? If so, I can understand it.
    As I believe - (bear with me this is just a thumbnail intro) first of all we on earth are all beings on a journey with a veil of forgetfulness of our pre-mortal existence: in our pre-mortal state we were intelligences of spirit without bodies dwelling with Heavenly Father who had a perfected body/war in Heaven on who should implement Heavenly Father's plan/we who chose to follow Heavenly Father's plan came to earth to receive bodies and experience life and learn/die - becoming spirits once more (our Savior becoming a perfected being with a body after His death to live with Heavenly Father)/await the Judgement/re-united with "our perfected bodies" after the Judgement/receive our Kingdom either unto immortality or Eternal Life (further progression): Here's a simplistic map of our progression... https://emp.byui.edu/AllredP/Plan%20...ion%20copy.jpg

    The poet Wordsworth pondered pre-mortality in his famous "Ode: Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood" https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poe...arly-childhood

    Some explanation of our pre-mortality... https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/...-life?lang=eng

    Hope this helps a little. After 18 years in the gospel I'm still learning much

    Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
    tailor
    tailor

    who am I but a stitch in time
    what if I were to bare my soul
    would you see me origami

    7-8-2015

  12. #117
    MANICHAEAN MANICHAEAN's Avatar
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    Much obliged tailor.

    Will read today.

    M.

  13. #118
    MANICHAEAN MANICHAEAN's Avatar
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    Thanks tailor.

    It was very interesting reading what you sent me yesterday. I'd never come across the subject of pre-mortal existence. Got me thinking about the whole concept of: consciousness, memory and awareness.

    Best wishes.
    M.

  14. #119
    Registered User NikolaiI's Avatar
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    There is no need to discuss that here.

  15. #120
    MANICHAEAN MANICHAEAN's Avatar
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    Run out of lamp posts have we?

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