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Thread: The Search Within

  1. #16
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    Conscious (ness) is an ‘entity’ quite apart from Existence (Being). Similarly life too is a local term, whose scope is also local. As water is home (local) to fish, air is home to living beings on earth. The conscious too is a local element, distinct in quality in each circle of life. As cosmos is composed of billions of worlds and galaxies—with their countless bodies—each world has its distinct ‘conscious’ which manifests in varying shapes and forms, in as many categories of life and material bodies, as is compatible with the local atmospheric conditions. That is, each world or circle of ‘consciousness’ like atmosphere, supports its peculiar life-line. That is the reason; life in other planets would not be the same, as on earth, as the conscious which pervades the earths’ atmosphere is ‘special’ to its conditions and needs only!
    Conscious is prevalent in living as well as in the inert. Therefore each and every element in Nature is conscious and those ‘elements’ which came into being later—as the result of their permutations and transmutation—like the seemingly inert mass of mountains etc., are conscious too. The inert mass too is subject to change—thus adhering to the three qualities of Nature—creation-sustenance-dissolution. Energy which is at the base of these ‘projections’ (creations) would produce only the material manifestation, even if there had been no proviso of ‘Being’ in Nature: But in such condition, the scenario of the evolution would have been different! There would be robots roaming about on earth! Even now, given all the benefits of science, scientists can produce robots and even human clones possessing ‘data-fed-intelligence’. But they will never be able to replicate life, i.e.—the original source of life. They may be able to produce amoeba or even replicate Original-Seed, but human intelligence will never be able to produce the One-Being, in whom are compressed all elements of Nature—powers of C-S-D (creation-sustenance-dissolution) which go with it. That “Being” in human form is Omnipresent-Omnipotent-Omniscient (the three O’s).
    The ultimate in human intelligence is: Intelligence itself. The Intelligence that creates sustains and annihilates the Nature. Finding and replicating the Original-Seed, the original cause of creation, is the ultimate human quest.
    The quest of human mind is not limited to produce and replicate the original amoeba, which ushered biological evolution on earth; but the life-current itself which puts life in that amoeba!
    The quest of man would be over when he finds answer to these riddles!
    His hour of glory would come when he creates a replicate of Nature!
    His self’s’ journey of perfection would have been attained, when he controls Nature by his “Will” (Intelligence), not through the instruments of his creations!
    Evolvement of individual intelligence to Cosmic-Intelligence is the journey which every mind aspires. Human mind is a dreamer and is possessed with the powerful tool of imagination. However his mind is not equipped to find answers to fundamental questions (Cause) of C-S-D. To hide this ignorance, the mind finds an easy escape route; by filling those gaps by ‘imagination and fantasizing’. It is with power of dreaming and imagination, that man has been able to set foot on moon and probe Mars and Jupiter!
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  2. #17
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    The reason old literature and art are treasured is because they do not rely on the advance of technology but purely on the minds of the creators. In many cases these minds are superior to those of modern writers and artists. Remember millions of books published today will not stand the test of time.
    Nature may appear beautiful but she was created by a Blind Watchmaker without purpose and she is amoral.
    Creativity is not natural it is a gift given in various measures and only to self- aware
    humans.

  3. #18
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    What prompts the ‘urge’ in him to seek more and more knowledge or venture deep into space and oceans; Nay the whole of Nature. Where from he gets this ‘urge’?
    After dematerialization of matter: when the reverse process (Big-Crunch) of evolution sets in, gross bodies disintegrate into elements and elements break into subtle particles, which merge into each other, and finally constrict into a Single-Particle! This basic Seed later becomes the cause of Creation. This Seed contains in it the memory (conscious) of all the annihilated matter (inert mass) as well as of the living beings. As memory is nothing but the Conscious: In this case Supra-Conscious as the conscious of all the circles has been subsumed back in the Original (basic) Seed. That, when the recycle of evolution begins again, It (Conscious) fulfills Its urge (memory) only through projection, which blossoms as Nature! Conscious is the subtle picture (replicate) of all that exists. Even when matter is annihilated, it’s conscious as memory never ‘dies’. The basic nature of each particle is to duplicate itself. This nature is the ‘urge’, which prompts each particle, element in Nature to duplicate itself and transmute into further improvisations—which are however already planted (stored) in memory cells/particles.
    The true replicate of Nature is human mind. It contains and has the capacity to contain all the data of Nature, in its memory cells, which form into groups of memory chambers, by interlinking the cells of same nature; thus arranging them subject wise. The conscious (active memory) of each brain is equivalent to the enlightened knowledge of each age (era). However it is a separate matter, as to why some geniuses are alive to this knowledge while the rest of humanity remains ignorant or bereft of it. This is an interesting issue worth probing! Knowledge, also known as conscious or memory also seeks its release from latent form which entirely depends on the intensity of will or urge of that entity or circle (in space), in which it is stored. The material projections which are constantly taking shape in Nature are the result of that urge, i.e. conscious-state-of-memory. Each element in Nature has an assigned role, which it plays according to the memory—the plan, stored within its particles, which constitute that element. Their permutation, transmutation and improvisation are, all according to the Grand-Design, which unfold gradually as is originally arranged (contracted) into the Basic-Seed!
    Nature has to expand to its ultimate grandeur: When its elements are at their peak and harmoniously balanced, they would display their dazzling beauty!
    Human mind has also to complete its journey by realizing/ expending/exhausting its ‘memory’—stored in its memory cells. That is possible only through their material projection.
    As the fulfillment of Nature’s design (of Original-Memory-Seed) through its material projections (creations) is far ahead of mans’ realisation: Human mind deceives itself by superficial (false) projections; fantasized by its imagination. The imagination is a dream, an illusion, a subtle replication, which ultimately transforms into material projections gradually, in graded quality of life. cont..........
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  4. #19
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    It is man's curiosity that makes him probe and that is result of his self- awareness. He was not content to live as a hunter- gatherer so he began to harness plants and crops were born. He was not content with stone tools so he discovered bronze.
    You know the problem with curiosity ; it can unleash Pandoras box.
    Atoms have no urge to reproduce they react to circumstances and always in the same way. Hydrogen reacts with oxygen to produce water ; that is its property and the properties of the elements are laid out in the periodic table. Nature is not fulfilling a design that interpretation is our fantasy banished by Charles Darwin for the biological world and by physicists for the material world.

  5. #20
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    "Nature is not fulfilling a design"
    But creations of Nature are definitely fulfilling its design! You must have heard about DNA Code 'message'! We are only the product of the design our forefathers designed! Entire history of creation is stored in our brain cells (messages/memory cells)! Darwin focused on one aspect, whereas other factors like sociology, economic, biology, philosophy, physics, chemistry, cosmology, spirituality etc., & many others. The list is long.
    All of these aspects/facets of Nature structure/ guide our lives on pre-determined factors (discovered knowledge)! Indian ancient thought labels DNA code as ‘samaskara’, the difference is only in language/vocabulary!
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  6. #21
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    That is the great problem with evolution it looks exactly like design and it is why the Christian apologist William Paley coined the concept of the Watchmaker.
    Richard Dawkins explains this extensively in his book 'The Blind Watchmaker , infact he declares Paley's augument was inrefutable before Darwin .
    Darwin used the term natural selection but was at pains to point out it had no end in view and no plan or aim, but was largely driven by survival.
    The human mind seeks a plan and sees one all around him, it fits but is it true.
    Inorganic chemicals often crystalize in geometrical shapes they have no plan its how they fit together. Mr Dawkins explains it far better than I can.

  7. #22
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    We can wait till he (Mr Dawkins) explains? & during the interim the ls. 'll be able to explain his point of view!
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  8. #23
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    The incompatibility between Nature and the human mind’s realization of their respective goal’s end, i.e. the realization of their respective intelligence’s (memory) optimum attainment, has compelled man to look inward! As Nature’s fulfillment of its obligation lies in realizing its grand design of C-S-D; humanity’s’ aim is to master Nature and produce its replicate! Nature being the projection of the Elementary-Seed, the human mind also evolves from its Conscious (memory)! Nature cannot go beyond fulfilling its assigned role, human mind goes beyond its gross minds’ sphere and can master the former, as the same mind is tooled with higher level of consciousness—in which the gross mind is embodied. Nature is bound with its own Principle (Intelligence), the human intelligence is capable of more: not only it is able to replicate its (Nature) creations but master the very principles (laws), within which It is bound.
    Nature is the product (projection) of energy; that is why it is classed inert and transient. Human beings—Its creation—are linked to life-Principle (Being), that is why they are called human ‘beings’. Nature is subject to its inscrutable laws of C-S-D; that is why it is called phenomenal/ephemeral material creation! Human beings, on the contrary are linked directly to ‘Existence’—the never changing, non-dying principle of ‘Being’: that is how; they are called ‘Divine’. Nature’s study is called science, whereas study of Divine is called spirituality. The scope of natural science is limited to material cosmos: spirituality has no bonds of ephemeral world’s laws: Its ‘essence’ of quest is not only pervading Nature and its creations, but it seeks those realms, which are not the subject of mind—but it’s Source!
    The ‘compressed’ Supra-Conscious(ness) that lies latent in its micro state—Casual (Original-Seed), when impelled by innate urge (Will/Sankalp) to evolve into material manifestation, all the images (of memory) stored (reflected) in subtle forms, derive their ‘live’—Being principle—from Divine.
    Divinity is not something mystical or magical, as stated earlier; It is the essence of Existence. Nature, as is commonly believed, is not self-sustaining, it has its source from Existence—all pervasive Supra-Consciousness (Brahman) —That too is sustained by Divinity. In fact Divinity-Existence-Nature and their material projections are not some ‘mythical elements’! They are always there! They have no source and are not separate entities. These are Conscious circles reflected in three states of, Casual-Subtle-Gross. The composite essence of these three is; That— which is beyond description and conception, though attainable!
    The ‘urge’ which impelled the manifestation of impressions (memory-images) on the screen of Supra-Conscious (-ness) has equipped all living beings with the quality of ‘curiosity/urge’. Human beings are equipped with an additional quality of ‘quest’. It is the sense of curiosity that unfolds the secrets of Nature. The quality of quest withdraws the mind from Nature and lets it consume itself in its own flames of curiosity (desire) with the inspiration of ‘quest’. Curiosity flames the senses, sprouts desires and derives the mind in the material projection of Nature. Quest retracts it back and after having itself ‘acquainted’ with it fully, assimilates in Existence. That is the state when an individual-self (identity) realizes its true identity—the Self, and enjoys its everlasting, inexhaustible Effulgence. cont.......
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  9. #24
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    I understand your desire to paint a much bigger picture of humanity than evidence allows ,men have always done that throughout history. You are guilty of making us far more important than present knowledge suggests.
    Richard Dawkins when read between the lines is very sad that science has unraveled what it has. He is an educated man brought up in the church , versed in poetry and art as are many who felt forced to abandon faith.
    Pantheism insists on a great unity of spiritual and physical ; the oneness of creation ,but nature is red in tooth and claw their is no room for such sentiments.

  10. #25
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    When one is putting up a paper/treatise/thesis on ‘thought’ the best course to confront is to put up a better paper which is more logical! An idea can be ‘killed’ by another idea but logic can only be improvised by more enlightened logic; that is how philosophy was founded & developed, by removing iignorance, layer by layer, by the galaxy of philosophers!
    You are advised that instead of throwing some names, pl. put your logic in more erudite manner, in your valued thread so that we all have the privilege to share glimpses of your enlightenment! As for theists vs. atheists/ agnostics, our country produced far more better logicians than Dawkins as they had developed one school of thought , exclusively on the subject named “Nyaya (Reasoning) Yoga more than five thousand years ago. Moreover ancient Indian thought was not based on any concept or religion but on six schools of ‘thoughts’, hence we are more conversant with ‘this’ kind of logic! Regards
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  11. #26
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    I do my best but ask you to remember I'm a layman and I look to many experts in their fields to help me grasp the latest position of knowledge on a given subject.
    Richard Dawkins is an expert biologist so we need to listen to him in this field. Of course ,like us all, he has many other ideas some linked to biology, others unlinked.
    Enlightenment is not mine or yours it belongs to mankind. We are fortunate to be able to listen to greater minds than ours from history to the present day. Karl Popper introduced his testability criterion into science and it has tidied up many lose ends.
    Popper does not say hypotheses are of no use if they cannot be falsified merely that they cannot be counted as true.

  12. #27
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    Healthy comments are highly appreciated & valued! You are welcome sir, have fun!
    a passing reference:
    "https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/einstein-philscience/

    Late in 1944, Albert Einstein received a letter from Robert Thornton, a young African-American philosopher of science who had just finished his Ph.D. under Herbert Feigl at Minnesota and was beginning a new job teaching physics at the University of Puerto Rico, Mayaguez. He had written to solicit from Einstein a few supportive words on behalf of his efforts to introduce “as much of the philosophy of science as possible” into the modern physics course that he was to teach the following spring (Thornton to Einstein, 28 November 1944, EA 61–573).[1] Here is what Einstein offered in reply:
    I fully agree with you about the significance and educational value of methodology as well as history and philosophy of science. So many people today—and even professional scientists—seem to me like somebody who has seen thousands of trees but has never seen a forest. A knowledge of the historic and philosophical background gives that kind of independence from prejudices of his generation from which most scientists are suffering. This independence created by philosophical insight is—in my opinion—the mark of distinction between a mere artisan or specialist and a real seeker after truth. (Einstein to Thornton, 7 December 1944, EA 61-574)
    That Einstein meant what he said about the relevance of philosophy to physics is evidenced by the fact that he had been saying more or less the same thing for decades. Thus, in a 1916 memorial note for Ernst Mach, a physicist and philosopher to whom Einstein owed a special debt, he wrote:
    How does it happen that a properly endowed natural scientist comes to concern himself with epistemology? Is there no more valuable work in his specialty? I hear many of my colleagues saying, and I sense it from many more, that they feel this way. I cannot share this sentiment. When I think about the ablest students whom I have encountered in my teaching, that is, those who distinguish themselves by their independence of judgment and not merely their quick-wittedness, I can affirm that they had a vigorous interest in epistemology. They happily began discussions about the goals and methods of science, and they showed unequivocally, through their tenacity in defending their views, that the subject seemed important to them. Indeed, one should not be surprised at this. (Einstein 1916, 101)
    How, exactly, does the philosophical habit of mind provide the physicist with such “independence of judgment”? Einstein goes on to explain:
    Concepts that have proven useful in ordering things easily achieve such an authority over us that we forget their earthly origins and accept them as unalterable givens. Thus they come to be stamped as “necessities of thought,” “a priori givens,” etc. The path of scientific advance is often made impassable for a long time through such errors. For that reason, it is by no means an idle game if we become practiced in analyzing the long commonplace concepts and exhibiting those circumstances upon which their justification and usefulness depend, how they have grown up, individually, out of the givens of experience. By this means, their all-too-great authority will be broken. They will be removed if they cannot be properly legitimated, corrected if their correlation with given things be far too superfluous, replaced by others if a new system can be established that we prefer for whatever reason. (Einstein 1916, 102)
    One is not surprised at Einstein's then citing Mach's critical analysis of the Newtonian conception of absolute space as a paradigm of what Mach, himself, termed the “historical-critical” method of philosophical analysis (Einstein 1916, 101, citing Ch. 2, 6–7 of Mach's Mechanik, most likely the third edition, Mach 1897).
    The place of philosophy in physics was a theme to which Einstein returned time and again, it being clearly an issue of deep importance to him. Sometimes he adopts a modest pose, as in this oft-quoted remark from his 1933 Spencer Lecture:
    If you wish to learn from the theoretical physicist anything about the methods which he uses, I would give you the following piece of advice: Don't listen to his words, examine his achievements. For to the discoverer in that field, the constructions of his imagination appear so necessary and so natural that he is apt to treat them not as the creations of his thoughts but as given realities. (Einstein 1933, 5–6)"
    Last edited by little-self; 03-14-2017 at 08:01 AM.
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  13. #28
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    Einstein was the genius of the age and he was gifted enough to question the established bedrock of Newtonian science. We must remember he did not replace it and Newtonian physics is still taught everywhere and holds good for most practical uses. Most of us consider time to be absolute, as did Newton but Einstein demonstrated at high speeds it is linked to space which he called spacetime.
    Philosophy is unavoidable to most thinking people whether they are scientific or not; we all have a philosophy that shapes our view of what we call reality.

  14. #29
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    The study of Nature (self/conscious) is the first essential prerequisite for understanding the Self—Supra-Conscious, Existence, Being, Divinity. These are the layers of Consciousness, which unfold in staggered manner and reveal the inner-core, which is nothing but the ‘known’—our own-Self: That the Conscious which is embodied in an individual, is the same, that pervades the cosmos! That the intelligence which each individual supports, when added with all other cosmic bodies intelligence, becomes Cosmic/Supra-Conscious. Divine Principle is the same, whether It is in inert or living beings!
    Gradually the science is also accepting that there is hardly any difference between the physical brain and the (subtle) mind. Mind is a physical reality: it is the personalization of the brain. There are 100 billion brain cells, each cell has 100,000 connections. At the time of birth, a child has almost all the brain cells, but these connections grow, in accordance to the kind of experience we go through, the sort of things or the sort of life we live! Thus our brain would constantly be evolving and every time we interpret something in the world, new connections grow and there are changes at the molecular, chemical and cerebral levels. A new dimension has been added to ‘personalization’. Thus its reactions, reflections would be based in the light of ‘happened’ episodes, i.e. acquired knowledge/stored memories! That is; our reactions are the reflections of the kind of data the brain cell have stored by establishing new connections. Had it not been so, we would have been true replicate of our ancestors—the first Homo sapiens, about 100,000 years ago, and human persona would have been the engineered product of their genes, in behavior as well as culture.
    There is another version too. Most of the human facets, like honesty, altruism, intelligence, musical and artistic abilities and even spirituality are, to some extent, genetically determined! Other characteristics, viz. aggression, risk taking, sociability, recognition, memory, language, reading, self-consciousness, are also influenced genetically. As neuroscience is still at formative stage—compared to the rest of the sciences—soon it would know the entire sequence of three billion base pairs, which make up human genome.
    This, undisputedly, establishes that there are both, predetermined (genetic) as well as external influences (cell connections) which are inherited and later, acquired knowledge that determine our lives. Therefore it is the mind that controls the mind, both, externally as well as internally and it is also subject to both of these influences.
    Human race is going to witness significant changes in genetic engineering, manipulation in cells’ connections and transplantation of carbon (natural) brain with silicon. Artificial intelligence—intelligent machines—would usher in new crops of generations, and create matter by deciphering the hereto unknown conscious elements present in ‘particle’. All this would open unimaginable custom made, artificial beauty of man and material: That new vistas would come into being! A synthetic man, brain, intelligence and conscious would produce categories of life in artificially created world. All of this would be a material reality (artificial) by cracking and manipulating the conscious in cell and the particle. The extension (mergence) of cells’ conscious with that of the particle would be the next ultimate, human intelligence would encounter. Many more of such innovations would ultimately lay the foundation of artificially engineered world peopled with artificial life!
    There is nothing unique about this! The material projections in Nature too, are created from conscious-intelligence. Material creation, whether by human brain or by the Integrated-Intelligence is one and the same thing. The Conscious—individualized in human (living beings’) brain—is the same that pervades the cosmos. It is the compacted version of Cosmic-Intelligence. Intelligence is the basic source of Nature. But it is Divine Principle that activates Intelligence. In Nature or mind, It lies latent in the form of memory, conscious, knowledge. It is inert reflection of inert mass. Intelligence in inert or machine is programmed, but in human brain it has the additional scope of unbridled evolvement (of Conscious-ness).
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  15. #30
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    All fine dramatic stuff which makes it sound as if we are on the road to some great conscious revelation. If you believe our brains were created as a result of special selection then they were made to survive and not to unravel the complex problems of the universe. Like Alfred Wallace you may not believe that and that his paradox was correct that some I intervention was needed to create the human mind. Wallace became a spiritualist. Then of course anything goes we are God-like and made in his Image.

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