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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by little-self View Post
    Many more of such innovations would ultimately lay the foundation of artificially engineered world peopled with artificial life!
    I don't think this will happen, however, your discussion of consciousness goes in the right direction of emphasizing consciousness rather than unconscious matter.

    People who promote artificial intelligence assume there are two valid positions: (1) strong AI where the machines are really conscious or (2) weak AI where the machines look like they are conscious to us. This is the final, cornered position left for materialism: prove that everything is a reductionist machine by building an AI that is "conscious". Logically (see Godel's incompleteness theorem) and philosophically (see Searle's Chinese room argument), this project has already been invalidated.

    There is a third view that I expect most people will increasingly take as they get used to cars driving themselves and unmanned space exploration: (3) no AI. This is where people use their smart phones and neural-network feedback apps to do useful work knowing there is only a program and not some internal consciousness driving it. The consciousness telling our machines what to do will be our consciousness not their own.
    Last edited by YesNo; 03-16-2017 at 11:55 AM.

  2. #32
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    The silicon chip can produce logic but not creativity. Only conscious Self (life-principle) is capable of producing conscious. Intuition and commonsense cannot be in the preview of computer. Emotions are at the core of conscious, whose ideal reflector is the body. The scientists are yet to locate its (conscious) center, although electrical impulses—which come in the science field—are their carrier frequencies. To have their feelings (experiences), brain and body are the appropriate medium. Though conscious is there in inert too, but its fructifying elements—creativity, self-enlightenment—and finally their merging in their own effulgent Self, is only possible in human body.
    The beauty of human body is that not only its each cell is not only conscious, live and creative, but is also possessed with the capability to extend (evolve) itself like the particle, unto a full-fledged biological world. As the material world is the creation of ‘particle’, biological world is the creation of cell! The cell is the organic form of the particle. So localization of conscious centre in human body is like locating conscious in space! Each and every cell, as well as particle is conscious. All are inter-connected with electrical impulses, but each element in Nature, like a limb in the body, reflects its own ‘local’ memory. Like the total mass of a galaxy is linked with a black hole, nerve centers in the body are linked to the brain. The central point in human body is the spiritual heart, as is the black hole in a galaxy—the centre of gravity. The core of spirituality is Divine-Principle, as magnetic energy is at the core of black holes!
    If these two centers of matter i.e. Existence and life (Being), are compacted in ‘human beings’, this hypothesis is unacceptable to the scientific faculty, as they lack the knowledge of an all important subject—spirituality, the subject which enlightens the system that transmutes the inorganic into organic. This is the core of human ingenuity, which has baffled the limited human intelligence. Though the scope of human intelligence is as vast, as the vast cosmos it permeate into, but its activation (enlightenment) is determined by the conscious (knowledge) it is exposed to!
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  3. #33
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    Your getting into realms of fantasy again most of the cells in the human body are not human , they have evolved with us.
    We are products of special selection not Lords of Creation however much we may wish to be.

  4. #34
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    Acceptance of conscious in particle and its further transmutation into organic, is considered, the part of evolution’s process. However in the meanwhile, when this process is still in the formative stage—hence incomplete—and a ‘role-model’ of human perfection appears in a diminutive human form, who seems to possess all the powers/qualities of Nature and its Creator, the scientific mind rattles in disbelief and negativism! Because it is not in their books! This is the only subject or an object, which instantly and simultaneously invites both ridicule and reverence.
    Human incarnation from inorganic to organic is acceptable, but God’s Incarnation in human form (organic) is not acceptable! How ridiculous!
    Each particle is complete unto itself and when it duplicates, its ‘parts’ inherits the qualities of its originator—the Whole. It is same as in the case of a cell. The visible diversity in the various categories of particles and cells, is in their level of activation of conscious (-ness) —the state of evolution! In very rare cases, a perfectly activated cell—in ‘Whom’ is embodied the conscious of the both; that of a particle and the cell—it produces its replicate in human form! The scientist fraternity fails to acknowledge this wonder. Because they have been taught: Conscious reveals only in graded form, i.e., the unfolding of conscious knowledge (of Nature) is through the slow process of evolution!
    Can human ingenuity produce such an ‘entity’? Yes, it is a logical possibility! As the knowledge continues to grow, since the age of three, the brain continues to grow also the connections of those cells which belong to each subject under the sky. The data-bank of the genius is the envy of all. But as told earlier, no brain has used more than seven percent of its intelligence. Now let us be optimistic by supposing; there might be a ‘chance’ conjunction of all the cells and their connections—that brain would be the perfect replicate of Nature! Stretch the imagination further and suppose that brain’s capacity is fully utilized and that specimen of man, who is fully conscious of the total knowledge of the Nature—he would be the human answer to God’s Incarnation!
    The Constant-Integrated-Consciousness, which is the total sum of intelligence in Nature, has no beginning, no end! It simply is there. The creation of ephemeral world projects in Consciousness, on the basis of its memories, which are always involved in the cycle of Big-Crunch and Big-Bang, i.e. annihilation and creation of matter. The memory of the cosmos is, either latent in the Original Seed or its existence is potent in Its creations. The Intelligence which is the cause of Creation—as well its creations—is the same which is stored in human minds and creates its own field of consciousness, in direct proportion to the knowledge received through the medium of senses or from other sources (interstellar bodies etc)—not yet known. When the total knowledge of Nature is transferred to human brain, which it is capable of storing, and it is conscious of this knowledge also—it transforms into Intelligence. As there is no difference between the two—external and internal, the conscious level of human beings—with its totality of knowledge-conscious-mind transforms itself into C-I-C. And if Intelligence in Nature has the power to create itself—as is the case, then why not the same Intelligence in human being—which is stored in it in exact form—be able to create Nature! Provided, of course, ‘That’ human ‘Being’ is the one, who is fully conscious of the Totality of Nature and the Consciousness!
    But this is a far from a practical eventuality, as human race has been able to utilize only a fraction of its brain, that too in a very rare cases!
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by little-self View Post
    The silicon chip can produce logic but not creativity. Only conscious Self (life-principle) is capable of producing conscious. Intuition and commonsense cannot be in the preview of computer. Emotions are at the core of conscious, whose ideal reflector is the body. The scientists are yet to locate its (conscious) center, although electrical impulses—which come in the science field—are their carrier frequencies. To have their feelings (experiences), brain and body are the appropriate medium. Though conscious is there in inert too, but its fructifying elements—creativity, self-enlightenment—and finally their merging in their own effulgent Self, is only possible in human body.
    The beauty of human body is that not only its each cell is not only conscious, live and creative, but is also possessed with the capability to extend (evolve) itself like the particle, unto a full-fledged biological world. As the material world is the creation of ‘particle’, biological world is the creation of cell! The cell is the organic form of the particle. So localization of conscious centre in human body is like locating conscious in space! Each and every cell, as well as particle is conscious. All are inter-connected with electrical impulses, but each element in Nature, like a limb in the body, reflects its own ‘local’ memory. Like the total mass of a galaxy is linked with a black hole, nerve centers in the body are linked to the brain. The central point in human body is the spiritual heart, as is the black hole in a galaxy—the centre of gravity. The core of spirituality is Divine-Principle, as magnetic energy is at the core of black holes!
    If these two centers of matter i.e. Existence and life (Being), are compacted in ‘human beings’, this hypothesis is unacceptable to the scientific faculty, as they lack the knowledge of an all important subject—spirituality, the subject which enlightens the system that transmutes the inorganic into organic. This is the core of human ingenuity, which has baffled the limited human intelligence. Though the scope of human intelligence is as vast, as the vast cosmos it permeate into, but its activation (enlightenment) is determined by the conscious (knowledge) it is exposed to!
    I like the idea of the human body "locating consciousness in space".

    However, I don't trust metaphors such as the following "All are inter-connected with electrical impulses". I think we need to move away from individual atoms, particles and even human beings toward groups connected not by something believed to be unconscious such as electrical impulses but by a more comprehensive consciousness.

    There may not be any "black holes". A black hole is a point of space with no diameter but which has enough mass so that its gravity prevents light from leaving it. On the surface these concepts do not make sense, but they are derived from Einstein's gravitational theory. All that is observed are stars rotating about centers with enough speed that this particular preferred gravitational theory assumes a black hole must be there. Other theories (see John Moffatt) don't need black holes nor dark matter and energy to explain these observations. The existence of these other theories should make us cautious about thinking in terms of objects that may not exist.

    The idea that the brain is primary may also be an error. It may well be the heart or some heart-brain combination. I won't go into that unless you are interested, but what it suggests is our metaphors about the "brain" may be leading us astray as well and especially leading astray people who are interested in spirituality and how science supports spirituality.
    Last edited by YesNo; 03-21-2017 at 11:07 AM.

  6. #36
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    |It may well be the heart or some heart-brain combination."
    we 'll discuss about 'spiritual-heart' later!
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  7. #37
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    What I find interesting is "heart rate coherence" although I have just started looking at it.

  8. #38
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    Then Divine-Incarnation is a myth!
    And God is Born. The physicists, cosmologists and astronauts the world over, have ‘invented’ so many theories about the creation of the Universe: fortunately there are not many takers, so these ‘theories’ have not so for been universally accepted. Some of these are really like nursery fables, not worthy of serious consideration!
    Since nineteen eighties, the cosmologists have been promising that they are on the verge of discovering ToE (Theory of Everything). Their promised dateline, i.e. last millennium’s end has come and gone, but the ultimate of their imagination—ToE is still in fermentation. Mind, this theory had to be entirely based on conjunctions—imagined classic calculations! The biggest lacuna in the science of cosmology is its helpless state of limited sphere within which its scientists are required to work. It is entirely based on mathematical calculations, which cannot stand the test of practical verification. Our own galaxy, which is 100000 light years in diameter, has some 200 billion stars, and it takes the sun to complete its circuit some 225 million years. And there are millions or billions more such milky ways. The mystery of black hole and the gawking missing mass of matter in each galaxy is still to be solved. The classic theory of black hole; that the entire universe, itself, is a black hole and it is the cause as well as the annihilating element of matter, is buying more and more takers. Interstellar, inter-matter distances are so vast and the scale of even light years is proving insignificant to measure their distance from earth or from each other. Now that we have some more reliable instrument for the purpose! The Red-shift too is not a proven method. Cosmology is thus a subject, purely based on unproven theories and has yet to promote itself to laboratory grade. It is still in a dream state to prove its voracity in field, when the sphere of that field is cosmos itself! To fictionalize it further, it is a unique subject, whose antecedents are entirely based on past: For whatever is seen or observed in space has ‘happened’ in past. Even the secret of Nature (creation) lies in past. To understand Creation, scientists are going back in time. But the tool with which they are looking into past, is very insignificant and a very poor performer. Their only method to measure time is light, whose speed is slow, considering the distances involved. By the speed of light, human race shall never be able to unravel the secrets of Creation. Einstein’s theory of relativity, that nothing can travel faster than light, has now been nullified by another German scientist, who has discovered the speed of musical vibrations, five time more than of light. In another significant development, there are encouraging reports that some scientists are working on the possibility of stopping the time and reach its starting point or even going beyond minus zero time. This has opened the backward gates of time and soon we shall be able to travel backward in time!
    Even going through the route of the matter, the birth of the Universe: “at Brookhaven National Laboratory, physicists created ultra dense matter (the hottest, densest matter), similar to conditions, which existed a few millionths of a second after the Big Bang. An atomic nucleus consists of protons and neutrons, which in turn, consist of smaller particles, quarks. Quarks are held together by still another type of particle, gluons. In ordinary matter, it is impossible to pull out an individual quark or gluon. But with hot temperatures and high pressures, physicists theorize, the gluon binding loosen, and the quarks can swim free, melting protons and neutrons into a new state of matter, quark-gluon plasma. Same were the conclusions drawn at CERN, in 2000. but the international teams performing the experiments (at Brookhaven) stopped short of saying they had created a new state of matter in which protons and neutrons, the building blocks of matter, had dissolved into a soup of smaller particles”(TOI DT.20.6.03, By Kenneth Chang)). What we are forgetting, like the physicists is, matter also dissolves in the ‘Divine-force’ of attraction, a stateless state, where neither energy nor magnetic energy exist!
    Going by the present standards of scientific advancement, the scope of uncovering the secrets of Creation is very bleak. At best there shall be coming (unproven) classical theories; perhaps the much hyped about ToE—only theories based on conjunctions! Till then the secrets of our Creation lies in far distant ‘past’. Whether we live in past or in future, shall only be decided, when the present is discovered conclusively.
    Last edited by little-self; 03-24-2017 at 07:36 PM.
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  9. #39
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    Our rational mind protests at this preposterous assertion! The scientists would certify the present as ‘live’ because there is life in Nature. But if we happen to go back in time into past, the scenario would be as authentic as it is ‘visible’ to the naked eyes. There is moving mass of galaxies in the space, which is ‘visible’ to the scientific eyes, but in reality, it is the image of past ‘happenings’ which existed in past; perhaps billions of light years ago. What we are trying to find out or chasing, is a mirage!
    But the man has put foot on moon and is probing the depths of other planets and is also reaching out still deeper via other means. If we go back in time, the objects which appear on our computer screens are those which exist in future! As when we target an object in a far off galaxy or on some planet in our own solar family; as a sequel to photo images sent by Hubble or some other objects like the ‘Opportunity’ rover at Mars, but by the time our probing satellite reaches the target planet, or the images sent by them reach us, in all probability the ‘target’ object might have been obliterated and what we find in its place is the future, which came into being after the probe had left the earth or the image had reached. Or does time exist at all! Time is directly related to motion (light), which happens to be the creation of energy. In the critical state of singularity (another theory) time simply does not exist; it stops forever. The state of singularities always occurs either in future (like the singularities of gravitational collapse) or entirely in past (like the big bang).
    From whatever theory we start with viz. quantum, gravity, big bang, black hole, inflationary, matter/antimatter, bubble, string, uncertainty; the final scenario that emerges, is a big void—i.e. Zero! (As the sum total of matter in the universe is Zero) This exactly is the state from where the spiritualists start. They are, thus, the real scientists, and not the religious zealots who make distinctions on the bases of sectarian religions, whose ‘content’ is not universal but confined in the narrow boundaries of their bipartisan theologies.
    The day human memory cells become conscious; its (mind) horizon of enquiry starts expanding. This ‘exposure’ makes it adept in adaptability, perseverance and in process it acquires colossal amount of knowledge of outer worlds. As a result human conscious, without it being aware, gets acclimatized to high dozes of gravitational fields (dimensions). This manifestation projects through high degree of elevation of ‘personal’ consciousness. As the brain is composite units of three billion diverse chemical connections, its power of assimilation is as diverse and encompassing: But despite its enormity, its scope is limited only to the extent it has been ‘exposed’. Meaning; it reacts, reflects and resounds, in accordance to the ‘data’ stored therein. (Of course data increase or decrease as the circumstances warrant). Beyond that its scope is Zero.
    Memory—the mind—proves very insignificant when it encounters the grandeur, the Nature displays, until it is fully conscious and the mind is elevated to its true stature of wisdom!
    The more i learn more i become aware of my ignorance
    Awareness of ignorance is wisdom

  10. #40
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    I am not following your arguments. If you have links giving more information that would be helpful.

    For example, you wrote, "that nothing can travel faster than light, has now been nullified by another German scientist, who has discovered the speed of musical vibrations, five time more than of light". Could you provide a link giving more information on this?

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