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Thread: Brits Out!

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    Registered User Jackson Richardson's Avatar
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    And I'm deeply, deeply depressed.
    Previously JonathanB

    The more I read, the more I shall covet to read. Robert Burton The Anatomy of Melancholy Partion3, Section 1, Member 1, Subsection 1

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    Well, I've lost some money but I'll get it back--eventually. My concern is the instability ahead. I suspect Angela's empire is toast. So will there be a Frexit next? (And would that constitute French toast? ) Will there be a stampede or death by 1000 cuts? There's a lot of uncertainty ahead. It may take some time for the markets to calm down.
    Last edited by Pompey Bum; 06-25-2016 at 03:56 PM.

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    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pompey Bum View Post
    Well, I've lost some money but I'll get it back--eventually. My concern is the instability ahead. I suspect Angela's empire is toast. So will there be a Frxexit next? (And would that constitute French toast? ) Will there be a stampede or death by 1000 cuts? It may take some time for the markets to calm down.
    I sincerely hope that Frau Merkel's empire is on the way out. l traveled extensively in Europe over many years and I loved Germany like a second home only to see it trashed by Merkel, so it's easy to see why I am elated by this rejection of everything she stands for.
    The thing about Europe that makes it worthwhile is its variety, something that has noticeably diminished under the EU. Obviously change is a natural process that one has to accept, but not when it is engineered by corporate finance and politicians in their pay.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

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    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pompey Bum View Post
    Well, I've lost some money but I'll get it back--eventually.
    I don't have anything riding on this vote to my knowledge being mostly in cash. But I suppose cash is worth more temporarily. It is possible this will deviously push the US (and European) markets to a new (and final?) high once people stop freaking out--or maybe the toilets really have been flushed.

    Frexit, anyone? Or maybe Puerto Rico or California should declare their independence?

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    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesNo View Post
    I don't have anything riding on this vote to my knowledge being mostly in cash. But I suppose cash is worth more temporarily. It is possible this will deviously push the US (and European) markets to a new (and final?) high once people stop freaking out--or maybe the toilets really have been flushed.

    Frexit, anyone? Or maybe Puerto Rico or California should declare their independence?
    I love France and would like to see them out of the EU. However, the US is a lot older than the EU and built on firmer foundations but, given the rise of Donald Trump and recent shenanigans among politicians in Washington over gun control, almost anything is beginning to seem possible.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

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    Registered User Clopin's Avatar
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    Listening to La Marseillaise on full blast in preparation for Frexit.

    This is a beautiful day.

    https://youtu.be/Sgd9nYqVz2s

    l traveled extensively in Europe over many years and I loved Germany like a second home
    If you don't agree with this woman you're an ultra right wing neo-nazi and need emergency reeducation, stat. There won't be a Germany or a German people in fifty years! Das ist gut ja. We can all be equal then you racist bigot.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LbRqcdRTUQ
    Last edited by Clopin; 06-24-2016 at 04:55 PM.
    So with the courage of a clown, or a cur, or a kite jerkin tight at it's tether

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    A User, but Registered! tonywalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesNo View Post
    I don't have anything riding on this vote to my knowledge being mostly in cash. But I suppose cash is worth more temporarily. It is possible this will deviously push the US (and European) markets to a new (and final?) high once people stop freaking out--or maybe the toilets really have been flushed.

    Frexit, anyone? Or maybe Puerto Rico or California should declare their independence?
    Puerto Rico independent? lol, who would they blame for their problems? Themselves?

  9. #9
    Registered User Tyrion Cheddar's Avatar
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    Wow. Y'all are mighty exercised over this, ain't ya. As an uncouth hillbilly American who needs to be instructed on things like gun control by Brits and Europeans, I realize my opinion doesn't count for much, but personally any time France and Germany get kicked in the balls I'm a happy camper.
    Obsessed with facial symmetry.

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    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    I've heard that there's a large segment of the French who want out as well. Maybe it is similar in Germany. Does anyone want to stay in the EU (outside of Scotland and Northern Ireland)?

    I had to look at a map to see where Puerto Rico was. In their case they might be more worried about getting kicked out.

  11. #11
    On the road, but not! Danik 2016's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clopin View Post
    Listening to La Marseillaise on full blast in preparation for Frexit.

    This is a beautiful day.

    https://youtu.be/Sgd9nYqVz2s



    If you don't agree with this woman you're an ultra right wing neo-nazi and need emergency reeducation, stat. There won't be a Germany or a German people in fifty years! Das ist gut ja. We can all be equal then you racist bigot.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LbRqcdRTUQ
    Clopin,
    You are just very very young! And who is the woman you are talking about?
    "You can always find something better than death."
    Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm, The Bremen Town Musicians

  12. #12
    The Reddleman Diggory Venn's Avatar
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    This affects me. I am British. I live in Great Britain. I voted to leave the European Union. I want to be governed by an elected British government, accountable to me. What is wrong with that ? By the way, I do not give a damn about money. There is more to life than a quick quid.....

    I hope every other country in the EU will do likewise. I would hope that everyone, wherever they live, has pride in their own country, and respects the rights and wishes of people in other countries.

  13. #13
    Ecurb Ecurb's Avatar
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    I'm declaring myself independent from the laws of the United States and Oregon. (Oh, I forgot. Pot is legal in Oregon now. Why bother?)

    Independent, traditional nation states certainly make sense: look at all the good they've done for the Balkins. Chechnya, the Ukraine, etc!

    Should Lincoln have let the Confederacy secede?

    Edwin Markham. 1852–

    8. Lincoln, the Man of the People

    WHEN the Norn Mother saw the Whirlwind Hour
    Greatening and darkening as it hurried on,
    She left the Heaven of Heroes and came down
    To make a man to meet the mortal need.
    She took the tried clay of the common road— 5
    Clay warm yet with the genial heat of earth,
    Dashed through it all a strain of prophecy;
    Tempered the heap with thrill of human tears;
    Then mixed a laughter with the serious stuff.
    Into the shape she breathed a flame to light 10
    That tender, tragic, ever-changing face.
    Here was a man to hold against the world,
    A man to match the mountains and the sea.

    The color of the ground was in him, the red earth;
    The smack and tang of elemental things: 15
    The rectitude and patience of the cliff;
    The good-will of the rain that loves all leaves;
    The friendly welcome of the wayside well;
    The courage of the bird that dares the sea;
    The gladness of the wind that shakes the corn; 20
    The pity of the snow that hides all scars;
    The secrecy of streams that make their way
    Beneath the mountain to the rifted rock;
    The tolerance and equity of light
    That gives as freely to the shrinking flower 25
    As to the great oak flaring to the wind—
    To the grave's low hill as to the Matterhorn
    That shoulders out the sky.

    Sprung from the West,
    The strength of virgin forests braced his mind, 30
    The hush of spacious prairies stilled his soul.
    Up from log cabin to the Capitol,
    One fire was on his spirit, one resolve:—
    To send the keen axe to the root of wrong,
    Clearing a free way for the feet of God. 35
    And evermore he burned to do his deed
    With the fine stroke and gesture of a king:
    He built the rail-pile as he built the State,
    Pouring his splendid strength through every blow;
    The conscience of him testing every stroke, 40
    To make his deed the measure of a man.

    So came the Captain with the mighty heart;
    And when the judgment thunders split the house,
    Wrenching the rafters from their ancient rest,
    He held the ridgepole up, and spiked again 45
    The rafters of the Home. He held his place—
    Held the long purpose like a growing tree—
    Held on through blame and faltered not at praise.
    And when he fell in whirlwind, he went down
    As when a lordly cedar, green with boughs, 50
    Goes down with a great shout upon the hills,
    And leaves a lonesome place against the sky.


    Abraham Lincoln Walks at Midnight
    Related Poem Content Details
    By Vachel Lindsay

    (In Springfield, Illinois)
    It is portentous, and a thing of state
    That here at midnight, in our little town
    A mourning figure walks, and will not rest,
    Near the old court-house pacing up and down.

    Or by his homestead, or in shadowed yards
    He lingers where his children used to play,
    Or through the market, on the well-worn stones
    He stalks until the dawn-stars burn away.

    A bronzed, lank man! His suit of ancient black,
    A famous high top-hat and plain worn shawl
    Make him the quaint great figure that men love,
    The prairie-lawyer, master of us all.

    He cannot sleep upon his hillside now.
    He is among us:—as in times before!
    And we who toss and lie awake for long
    Breathe deep, and start, to see him pass the door.

    His head is bowed. He thinks on men and kings.
    Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
    Too many peasants fight, they know not why,
    Too many homesteads in black terror weep.

    The sins of all the war-lords burn his heart.
    He sees the dreadnaughts scouring every main.
    He carries on his shawl-wrapped shoulders now
    The bitterness, the folly and the pain.

    He cannot rest until a spirit-dawn
    Shall come;—the shining hope of Europe free;
    The league of sober folk, the Workers' Earth,
    Bringing long peace to Cornland, Alp and Sea.

    It breaks his heart that kings must murder still,
    That all his hours of travail here for men
    Seem yet in vain. And who will bring white peace
    That he may sleep upon his hill again?
    Ecurb: Proud birth citizen (as opposed to my implied opinions in this thread) of Illinois.

  14. #14
    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    I was born in northwest Indiana, but I live in the neighboring state of Illinois.

    Just because Lincoln kept the United States intact during a secession over a century ago, that doesn't mean it is a good or a bad thing for the UK now to stay in or leave the EU. If one goes back even further, the US itself declared independence from Britain.

    Britain has voted for independence from the EU. It still has to implement that decision. It took the US a war to implement its decision and only completed that seven years after its 1776 declaration in 1783.
    Last edited by YesNo; 06-26-2016 at 03:49 PM.

  15. #15
    Ecurb Ecurb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesNo View Post
    I was born in northwest Indiana, but I live in the neighboring state of Illinois.

    Just because Lincoln kept the United States intact during a secession over a century ago, that doesn't mean it is a good or a bad thing for the UK now to stay in or leave the EU. If one goes back even further, the US itself declared independence from Britain.

    Britain has voted for independence from the EU. It still has to implement that decision. It took the US a war to implement its decision and only completed that seven years after its 1776 declaration in 1783.
    Obviously. Nor does the result of the vote mean it's a good or bad thing. I hope everything goes smoothly, however it turns out. However, the recent history of Nationalism in Europe includes racism, genocide, and bigotry.

    Patriotism resembles the love of one's own family, one's own neighborhood, or one's own city. It's natural and admirable. Nationalism adds to that the belief that independent action (rather than collective action) best serves human welfare. In that respect it resembles Capitalism. This might be right, or it might be wrong (I don't know). However, the dissolution of political conglomerates leads to several moral questions:

    1) (As I alluded to in my last post) If a state, a province, or a nation can legitimately decide to leave its political alliances, why can't an individual, a neighborhood, or a village? Where do we draw the line?

    2) Are all treaties and agreements legitimately breakable by the will of the people? What's the virtue of entering into any alliance (for example NATO) if you can leave whenever the going gets tough?

    3) Is the desire for nationhood often rooted in bigotry? That certainly seemed to have been the case in the Balkans.

    4) Was it legitimate for Lincoln to go to war against the Confederacy when they seceded?

    I remember that I was in Toronto on business when Quebec almost seceded. An ex-Pakistani cab driver drove me to the airport, and we started talking about the vote, which was taking place that day.

    "It is the weeping time for the Canada," he told me, with a tear in his eye.

    Quebec didn't secede, but one reason they wanted to was to retain a purity of language and culture. I, on the other hand, assumed that the Pakistani cabbie was making a literal translation of one of his native idioms. Far from thinking this an abomination, I thought that the expression was beautiful, as was the immigrant's sentiment and love for his country. Different cultural influences add to the culture of any country, I think. Of course that vote was before 9/11.

    p.s. to YesNo: Did your kids go to New Trier, my alma mater?
    Last edited by Ecurb; 06-26-2016 at 06:27 PM.

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