Brits Out!

[Emil Miller]

You raise some very good points, Emil. The EU also want to have the first member state they arrive at take the immigrants. Not surprisingly, the Visegrad Group by their location as the southern flank, make them prime targets for immigrants to come to the EU. No wonder these countries resist. We are seeing reactions in the Netherlands, in France and even in Sweden, where the Sweden Democrats support grows.

The first member state requirement has been ignored because the immigrants automatically gravitate to countries where there is more money or social handouts; the fact that Merke[ invited over one million Muslims into Germany without consulting her own people is an act betrayal beyond belief.

[Lendo]

I think that is inevitable to talk about the sanctions apllied to the polish european deputy that gave the controversial speech concerning women.

The speech is hideous and absurd, the simple fact that he uses some chess gender statistic to "prove" that women are less intelligent is ridiculous, and all of us obviously condemn what he said and all of us think that it's absurd that women are, by some type of natural law, less intelligent than men.

However, the fact that a elected deputy of the European Parliament can be sanctioned for saying it it's frightening, it's as absurd as what he said and contradicts all the values that the EU allegedly protects. His speech was idiotic, but he has the right to be an idiot, and to say idiotic and absurd things. When does this politiclly correctness of left nature ends? One thing is to promote directly and violently hate doutrines and philosophies, another thing is to just say stupid, surreal and unbelievable things. It's the electors who have to decide if he deserves to say those things in the Parliament or not, threw out the vote.

In my country, there has been more than one episode like that, and all because of the rise of the far-left. A year ago, a TV commentator was served with a subpoena of the "Commision of Citizenship and Gender Equality" (the most ridiculous governmental agency in Portugal, not because of what it should protect, but because what it actually does) because he said that the leaders of the far-left party Bloco de Esquerda (Left Block, translated to english) had squeaky voices. The Comission considered it a feminist and prejudicial attack on women. This goes behond any Monty Python sketch.

[Lendo]

The blackmail process continues. Juncker and Merkel saying that Great Britain will be sorry for leaving the EU, Juncker and Merkel saying that they are not willing to discuss any agreements with Great Britain until the exit process is finished, and just today the European Council determined that countries are not authorized to negotiate possible future agreements with Great Britain. What the hell is the EU turning to? Who the hell does Juncker think he is?

The EU forbides countries to negotiate with Great Britain future agreements on trade, security or any other subjects? Since when did the countries loose their independence and sovereignty? Despite what people like Juncker, Merkel and Schulz would like, the EU is not a federation. Brussels is not the capital of Europe, and the EU members are not EU states or territories. Portugal, Italy, Netherlands or France have not the same relationship with the EU that Texas or Florida have with the US. An then, theres affirmations like the one that a portuguese socialist deputy said some days ago on TV: "I understand that the EU plays the fear card to make the european project stronger, and i understand that the EU make Great Britain an example of what happens to those who leave the EU".

So, fear is the basis of the EU project nowadays. The EU got to such a totaliratian stage that a country who decides to leave is considered an enemy, an enemy that must be put to his knees so all the other members know what happen to those who make the independent and free decision to leave. Take the breath out of Great Britain, promote it's collapse so the fear takes the remain EU members. What a political project! The face of democracy and freedom!

[Clopin]

It's all burning now as we speak though.

[Aylinn]

The blackmail process continues. Juncker and Merkel saying that Great Britain will be sorry for leaving the EU, Juncker and Merkel saying that they are not willing to discuss any agreements with Great Britain until the exit process is finished, and just today the European Council determined that countries are not authorized to negotiate possible future agreements with Great Britain. What the hell is the EU turning to? Who the hell does Juncker think he is?

Wait, what were people expecting? That UE will fall on its knees and beg UK to stay no matter what or throw at UK good deals? Of course UE would never do it and go for hard negotiations. It was so easy to foresee it and such a logical step for UE to make that I wonder how anyone could have any disillusions that it will not happen. If UK is not prepared for hard negotiation with UE, it has only itself to blame for it. Besides, 'no deal is better than a bad deal' right?

[Lendo]

Wait, what were people expecting? That UE will fall on its knees and beg UK to stay no matter what or throw at UK good deals? Of course UE would never do it and go for hard negotiations. It was so easy to foresee it and such a logical step for UE to make that I wonder how anyone could have any disillusions that it will not happen. If UK is not prepared for hard negotiation with UE, it has only itself to blame for it. Besides, 'no deal is better than a bad deal' right?

I didn't say i'm surprised. As you can see, my first sentence includes the word "continues", with means that i have clear conscience that this have been done for a year, since the british people decided to leave the EU.

And i disagree completely with what you are saying. There's no reason for hard negotiations with the UK. The british people made a independent and conscious decision of leaving the EU, as they are intitled to. It's the british people who decides what's better for their country, not Juncker, Merkel, Schultz, Holland, or anyone else. And in a healthy and decent organization (which the EU is not) this decision would be respected. But this parade of threats, insults and blackmail it's just disgusting. It shows a complete lack of notion of what a political union is. And, above all else, it shows that the EU leaders realize that the end of the political project may be close, it shows the level of despair of the europeist politicians.

The UK needs EU, just as the EU needs UK. The EU is not in a position to say that it doesn't need the UK economy, technology, intelligence services, armed forces, etc. Just as the UK needs the EU market, and depends on the trade of knowledge with countries like Germany and France, and the labour of some continental european workers. So, it's a complex process, that if dealed in a responsable way can not translate in blackmail and threats, in a childish posture of the EU of "If you get out, we don't talk to you". And specially they can not attack a country to scare other countries. A political union based in fear not only will end, but it will end in a very bad and agressive way. Promoting a culture of fear to mantain the EU would only help the rise of parties like PODEMOS, Bloco de Esquerda, Syriza, Front National or UKIP. Precisely the opposite of what the EU desires.

[Aylinn]

And i disagree completely with what you are saying. There's no reason for hard negotiations with the UK. The british people made a independent and conscious decision of leaving the EU, as they are intitled to. It's the british people who decides what's better for their country, not Juncker, Merkel, Schultz, Holland, or anyone else. And in a healthy and decent organization (which the EU is not) this decision would be respected.

To a certain degree it’s charming how you see it. I suppose that if Scottish people decided leave UK, UK will fully respect that decision as an independent and conscious decisions of Scottish people.

[Lendo]

To a certain degree it’s charming how you see it. I suppose that if Scottish people decided leave UK, UK will fully respect that decision as an independent and conscious decisions of Scottish people.

I don't understand how you just compared two things that have nothing to do with eachother. I really don't.

And i really don't understand what's so difficult about understanding that the European Union is an international organization, a political organization. Like the UN, like OTAN, like FMI, etc. It's composed by independent and sovereign countries, that 60 years ago decided that it was a good idea to create a political and economical organization. So, and as the european treaties demonstrate, the countries are free to decide if the organization it's still good for their interests or not. If you don't understand that, you have the same missunderstandings about what's the European Union as people like Juncker or Djusselboom have.

But concerning to the scottish referendum, it's very simple: Great Britain has no other option but to respect the referendum's decision. Unless they are thinking to resuscitate King Edward I and start an independence war with Scotland 700 years later.

[Emil Miller]

Martin Schultz is going to be the socialist front-runner in this year's German election but whether he wins or Merkel prevails, it makes no difference to the two party stitch up that characterises Western politics. It beggars belief that any sane person would vote for mad Merkel but she has just won a local election in Saarland: which would indicate a further diminution in German intelligence.

[Clopin]

To a certain degree it’s charming how you see it. I suppose that if Scottish people decided leave UK, UK will fully respect that decision as an independent and conscious decisions of Scottish people.

I dunno why the rest of the UK wants anything to do with Scotland to be honest. Too bad they can't kick you guys out.

[Aylinn]

And i really don't understand what's so difficult about understanding that the European Union is an international organization, a political organization. Like the UN, like OTAN, like FMI, etc. It's composed by independent and sovereign countries, that 60 years ago decided that it was a good idea to create a political and economical organization. So, and as the european treaties demonstrate, the countries are free to decide if the organization it's still good for their interests or not. If you don't understand that, you have the same missunderstandings about what's the European Union as people like Juncker or Djusselboom have.

I understand, but I don’t see the problem. UK wanted to leave and it did. Was EU stopping UK from sending divorce papers? No, after the referendum some people including important politicians clearly expected that UK will actually do it much sooner.

And of course EU will not allow UK to talk separately with countries. This is exactly the game that Russia is trying to play at with EU. Talk with countries separately, because Russia has an advantage this way and has a weaker position during negotiations when speaking with the whole UE. Politicians leading EU would have to be morons to allow UK to do the same.

As for the fact that EU is not democratic enough for some people. There is actually a way to make it so by giving European Parliament more power, as politicians to European Parliament are directly elected by the people. However, it would mean reforming EU and strengthening the integration and many know too well that UK would be way to ready to veto such idea, so they are happy that UK is leaving and will stop being a problem. Actually, some are fed up with how often UK tended to veto ideas and how little it contributed to constructive problem solving.

[Dreamwoven]

Aylinn, I think you mean EU, not UE. There would be a lot of opposition to centralising power in the EU, especially from Central European countries which have their own group, the Visegrad Group: http://www.visegradgroup.eu, but also from many other EU member states.

[Danik 2016]

DW
UE(União Europeia) is the abreviation of EU in Portuguese.

[Aylinn]

Aylinn, I think you mean EU, not UE. There would be a lot of opposition to centralising power in the EU, especially from Central European countries which have their own group, the Visegrad Group: http://www.visegradgroup.eu, but also from many other EU member states.

Thanks for pointing that out, I have corrected it. I know that many would be against it, especially right-wing parties. However, it is ironic how their accusations that EU isn’t democratic enough could be tackled by more integration and European Parliament getting more power, which is what they don't want either.

[Dreamwoven]

In Hungarian it is Europai Unio, which happens to shorten to EU.

But this is what the Swedes call Swinglish (mix of Swedish snd English, perhaps "Hunglish").