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Thread: Genealogical Research

  1. #1
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    Genealogical Research

    This post is a response to a private message Clopin sent me. I've been writing a history of my family from 1657 and he asked me how to obtain genealogical data from previous centuries. My response was too long for another private message (as with my family history, there were too many characters) so I asked if he would mind my posting publicly. He didn't have a problem, so here it is. If anyone wants to discuss genealogy beyond this, that's fine. If not, that's cool, too.

    The answer is that you have to access surviving documents; for really early lives (Clopin actually asked about the 17th and 18th centuries) you may have to rely on Parish Registers, family Bibles (where life events were often recorded), or whatever has survived in government archives. 17th century military records are poor for the New World, but the 18th century is somewhat better. A law passed in the early 18th century allowed the aging and often indigent veterans of the American Revolution to apply for pensions if they could prove they really served. The result is a large, surviving body of petitions documenting service records. These were usually written by advocates in legalese, but they often contain written or dictated statements from the old soldiers and people they fought with. It can be quite moving to hear the voices of an ancestor from so long ago. And mind blowing. I was completely unprepared for the things I found. You (Clopin) may want to see if there was a Canadian equivalent to this.

    By the 19th century there is extensive census data and much better military records. The Internet gives you powerful resources to do access the information. It also allows you to contact other researchers with interests and families that overlap yours. These folks are known as "cousins." They are not hard to find, and they are sometimes extremely helpful (a cousin whose website I wrote to sent me an unpublished family memoir and dozens of of civil war era letters). But cousins will not do your research for you. It's kind of like having a study partner at school. As long as you pull your own weight, there are mutual benefits. Otherwise they will drop you like a stone. That's definitely part of the subculture.

    To do your research well (in my opinion) you need to use one of three websites. But there is also this background:

    In the first decade of the 21st century there was a robust community of genealogists on a site called Genealogy. Everybody's cousins were there and everyone wanted to share resources. It was all free. But over the last few years, a relatively expensive pay site called Ancestry destroyed the Genealogy community by buying the site and freezing its message board. (They also bought out almost everyone else, which is why they're so expensive). This has caused a sea change in online genealogical culture. Instead of treating resources as something to be shared, many now see them as commodities to be hoarded or sold dear. To Ancestry's credit, they preserve the old Genealogy archives and let people read it for free. It can be mined for all kinds of information (including the email addresses of cousins--some of which are still valid). But it's a dead board. You can't have conversations or ask questions for your own research. The selfish yuppy community that succeeded it is on the Ancestry site, and that you have to pay for.

    Ancestry.com

    Genealogy.com

    Ancestry itself is a really great site, though. It has the biggest (and still growing) database of old records on the net. In addition to that (and the message board) you get access to a library of family photographs (yes, yours are there), in depth access to military records (for a mark up), and access to newspaper articles and obituaries. They also sell a DNA test that's sort of interesting (my brother gave it to me for Christmas--it was fun). Personally I refuse to subscribe to any money pit (meaning any subscription service), but you may want to consider it. It's definitely the best choice if you don't mind paying.

    But Ancestry is only one of three major sites. The other two are free, but each has its limitations. The one I use is called FamilySearch. It also has a massive database of records--and some relationship or other with Ancestry. The reason Ancestry can't close them down is that they are owned by the super rich Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints--the Mormons. The LDS has apparently been keeping extensive genealogical records on everybody since the 19th century. I've heard this is because of a doctrine that souls who go to hell can get out if Mormons pray for them enough (apparently it takes a lot of prayers). And Mormons get bonus Heaven points for doing this--or something. Anyway, these records were available only to Mormons for more than a century, but in our times they have been opened up to everybody. So if you can deal with the LDS aspect--and I have no problem with them--it's something of an opportunity.

    FamilySearch.com

    Another helpful feature of FamilySearch is a software package for creating trees. A lot of people think making a family tree is the goal of genealogy, but in the computer age, the trees are mostly already written. You record a generation or two of your family and the tree will grow, sometimes going back hundreds of years. Trees give you the alł-important names and dates of your forgotten ancestors, making documentary research possible at all. They are also a useful graphic for the chronology you are using to reconstruct the actual story you are trying to tell. So trees are invaluable, but they are just the first step. (I hear Ancestry has good tree software, too, by the way--I've just never used it).

    The downside of the FamilySearch tree feature--sort of--is that it is a wiki document. It's not just yours; others can add to it (which can be great) or obliterate your work--potentially cutting off branches that go back for hundreds of years. There are also roving LDS elder's who act as referees. They pass by occasionally, and they will get rid of anything that isn't referenced to a valid record. I've only seen this happen a few times and to be honest the result was always a better and more realistic chronology. You just have to understand that it is not your document exclusively. And because it is a wiki, its information is not perfectly reliable. I've definitely seen some mistakes. LDS, by the way, provides good security for personal data. No information on living people is given on any shared document. It appears only on your own screen and only if you put it there.

    There are other features, too, but they are not as effective. Sometimes you get photographs and biographical information--sometimes you even run into cousins--but those things are rare in my experience. Also I have never found FamilySearch to be a community as Genealogy was and Ancestry presumably is now. FamilySearch is really just a research tool. But I've had good results with it--and the price is right. There are some free tutorials for it on YouTube if you are interested.

    The third major way to access records and build trees is a free site called Wikitree. This is sort of an anti-Ancestry site. They make a big deal about being free, worldwide community. I've never been too interested. They have an honor code you have to sign on to--mostly just saying that you are going to cite sources--but they also have too many rules for me. If you want to work with someone else you have to apply for trust status and they have to approve you--or something. I'd rather just work with FamilySearch's data and trees and reach out to cousins as I find them on their own websites. I hear they do have a nice community, though. They're supposed to be into sharing photographs and information. But some of the results I've seen from them--for my family anyway--are appallingly bad. I suspect that quality assurance is a big problem on that site. But I don't have much experience with them.

    Wikitree.com

    One other site deserves mention, even though it's not a massive data records site like the other three. Find A Grave (which uses the unfortunate acronym "F*G" ) is a "virtual shrine" site (people keep pages honoring dead relatives or ancestors or sometimes even strangers). A page may include a photograph of the gravestone or sometimes (if you are lucky) a photograph of an ancestor you never thought you'd get to see. Most pages don't have ancestor photographs, but there enough that rambling through Find A Grave is worthwhile--a bit like fishing for pictures. The shrines have a text section, too, which may have newspaper articles or obituaries. Spouses, siblings, and children are hyperlinked (which makes for better fishing). And since you can write to the shrines' hosts, it's a great way to meet cousins. Some of my best contacts have been Find A Grave hosts. The downside is that there is zero quality assurance on the information given in the text section. And some of the hosts truly don't know what they are talking about. Find A Grave is a great site, only a quasi-reliable source. Suspect any tree that cites it.

    Findagrave.com

    That, I guess, is what I had to say to Clopin.
    Last edited by Pompey Bum; 06-14-2016 at 02:01 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered User tailor STATELY's Avatar
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    Good advice. Being LDS I have a free account with Family Search which I use frequently, Ancestry - all the leaves or hints will start piling up on you (but not all archives for me), Find My Past http://www.findmypast.com , and My Heritage https://www.myheritage.com . I also use Family Tree Now http://www.familytreenow.com/search here in the US (which is free) for more recent research and tools: but it's hit and miss sometimes with its information... just this morning it "told" me there was a county in Nevada called Lovelo - which is prolly the CITY Lovelock in Pershing County, NV... ya know, the place where the prison is, but hey it's free and a decent place to start. I use Find A Grave a lot also. They have links to family members and other archives which are really handy (also used this site this morning). Just googling with a little family info will give you a decent start. Got a lot of stuff done, family history wise, in the wee hours today !

    If you have a friend or neighbor who is LDS, they can direct you or help you with your research... yadon'thavetojointhechurchtodofamilyhistorywork! Our Ward/church has its own Family History Center which I use on Sundays to augment my research at home; also centers in Placerville (closest "big" city to me) and Sacramento (THE big city down the hill an hour or so for most people [me: 2-hours]). If you live near SLC then it's pretty much nirvana (can I say that?) with family history resources.

    Watch for genealogy shows on the telly; PBS has two I try to catch here in the US. They can give wonderful tips on how to liven up your searches.

    Blogs are great resources too. Family Search has one at https://familysearch.org/blog/en/ . The following site has a good list of blogs and websites and tools to get you started with also: http://www.familytreemagazine.com/ar...ogy-blogs-2015

    Get your DNA tested if you can afford to. This can lead you to countries of origin and possible cousins. Remember all that stuff in Biology class about that Mendel dude https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Mendel ... turns out he was on to something. I attended a DNA seminar last month by another smart dude, Steve Morse (yes - THAT Steve Morse), which is distilled here: http://stevemorse.org/genetealogy/dna.htm ... it's as simple as ACGT !

    Be prepared for name mis-spellings and downright arbitrary name changes, wrong dates and cities/counties, and transcription errors of all sorts from any archive made available. Don't get discouraged: Your successes will lift you far more than any dead-ends or otherwise wrong turns you might find will discourage you.

    May the spirit of Elijah be with you ! (as we LDS say) to help you with your family history.

    Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
    tailor STATELY
    Last edited by tailor STATELY; 06-14-2016 at 02:28 PM. Reason: ago ? / added links
    tailor

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  3. #3
    Registered User tailor STATELY's Avatar
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    I've heard this is because of a (LDS) doctrine that souls who go to hell can get out if Mormons pray for them enough (apparently it takes a lot of prayers). And Mormons get bonus Heaven points for doing this--or something.
    ??? lol.... or something...

    Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
    tailor STATELY
    tailor

    who am I but a stitch in time
    what if I were to bare my soul
    would you see me origami

    7-8-2015

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    Congratulations to taylor on the progress I had a breakthrough today, too, after a cousin emailed me a 1690 contract from the Virginia State Archives. It not only confirmed a direct relationship I have been trying to document for months, it established the existence of second ancestor I had hypothesized (down to the name) but for whom there was no evidence until now. It was one of those damn-I'm-good moments--the kind that typically goeth before a fall.

    And the cousin didn't even know what she was doing! She was just sending me a bunch of deeply archived legal papers that she thought might have some overlapping names with ours. I'm still ploughing through them, and believe me, there is nothing like 17th century legalese! They just spelled words however they wanted to at that moment. Honestly. But I'm totally pumped. I completely know what taylor is talking about. The work can be frustrating, but the breakthroughs are so worth it.
    Last edited by Pompey Bum; 06-14-2016 at 03:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tailor STATELY View Post
    ??? lol.... or something...

    Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
    tailor STATELY
    Sorry, tailor. I don't want to misrepresent LDS theology, and I don't really know that much about it.

  6. #6
    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    My brother traced our genealogy to the mid 19th century. He didn't get as far back as either of you did.

    I don't actually think we had our last name until the late 18th or early 19th century when some census required that an ancestor have a last name to get recorded properly, but I don't know how true that is. It could be just family myth.

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    We've got a family Bible that goes back the late 18th century for my father's side, but my mother's ancestry is rather muddled because my great grandfather was a Jewish orphan from the UK who ended up in a Catholic orphanage in Montreal before being sent to an Orthodox Ukrainian farm family out west. He afterwards returned to Montreal and married an Anglican so he converted to Anglicanism. My great grandfather later tried to track down his family in Europe but the records of his adoption were lost in a fire. Also, the entire practice of indentured servitude of orphan children was a little bit suspect at the time so it's not clear proper records were ever kept.
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    Interesting story, Orphan Pip. It's nice to meet you, by the way. I know you've been on the site forever, but somehow I think we've never interacted.

    Indentured servitude/slavery is an interesting topic. I think it's been swept under history's baggy carpet, probably because European Americans were ashamed of the legacy and didn't want to talk about it. Both my immigrant ancestors came to America as indentured slaves. My great great great great great great great great grandmother was only 12 when she was transported in 1657. She was likely an orphan or an illegitimate child or simply the daughter of indigent parents (I haven't figured out which yet, though I have some of the story). She slaved on a middling tobacco plantation Maryland for 5 years (her master was a Catholic escaping persecution and in England). I have fairly good evidence she was a milkmaid and a lady's maid when her master's wife got pregnant. She married the free cooper, who turned planter himself after his wife got her freedom back. Her name was Mary.

    My great great great great great great great grandfather was an indentured slave, too. He was about the same age as Mary, but he didn't cross the Atlantic (which is what he had sold his freedom for) until 1674/5. He slaved in a tobacco field in Virginia and married Mary (the cooper had died on her a few years before) when his indenture expired. His name was John.

    I don't know if you are interested in this kind of research, Pip, but you might be able to recover more of your great grandfather's family story than he was. I was able to pluck poor Mary out of some pretty obscure records. And you have access to computer resources that your great grandfather never dreamed of. You may want to give it a try. Just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YesNo View Post
    I don't actually think we had our last name until the late 18th or early 19th century when some census required that an ancestor have a last name to get recorded properly, but I don't know how true that is. It could be just family myth.
    That's an interesting story, too, YesNo. One of the things I've noticed is how many common people lacked surnames before the 17th century. It's one of the reasons I limit my research (mostly) to America. But there are plenty of Europeans who do just fine in the murkier waters of time. The 18th and 19th centuries are a little late, though, to have no last name. It could be that your family is remembering an earlier time.

    Last names, by the way, are not all their cracked up to be. People changed them all the time to fit in or to avoid persecution or social censure (the 20th century produced a plethora of unknowing Germans). And in earlier times the commoners sometimes just took on the names of their lords and masters. My last name is Scottish. I was taught growing up that I was a Scottish American. But the DNA test that my brother gave me for Christmas showed that our largest ethnicity factor is Irish and that Scottish is quite small (I know that the Scottish and Irish are both Celts, by the way; apparently there's a marker). I'm more Spanish than I am Scottish--and much more German! A lot of the things people think they know about themselves are a bunch of poop.
    Last edited by Pompey Bum; 06-15-2016 at 09:54 AM.

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    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    It could be the 17th century. I haven't done any genealogical research myself and probably remember incorrectly what my brother was trying to tell me.

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    My family were the biggest bunch of horse thieves and rum runners east of the Mississippi. Most of 'em were lynched, deservedly so, and, I expect are currently turning slowly on a rotisserie as the Horned One drips more bacon juice on them.
    Obsessed with facial symmetry.

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    You're probably joking, TC, but uncovering your ancestors' scandals is always fun, especially since they usually tried really hard to cover their tracks. Their sins were usually sexual indiscretions (illegitimacy, affairs, common law shack ups, etc.). There was a lot of that in the old days (as now). Anyway, it's strangely enjoyable to try to outsmart your dead ancestors, and then to say: "Ah! I've got you!" What you do with the dirt it is a somewhat sensitive issue, but personally I'm putting it all in the book. God knows I've left enough treats to keep my nieces and nephews busy after I'm gone (and by then, I'll be laughing about it all).
    Last edited by Pompey Bum; 07-18-2016 at 02:50 PM.

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    I've only just discovered this Genealogical Research thread, from Pompey's post on third generation germans Shame on me!

    Anyway my father's family grew up in the Austrian Empire before it became the Dual Monarchy. It was only then that citizens (who before that only could have German surnames) were allowed to have Hungarian surnames. Many jews chose Hungarian surnames, and became, for example, Kovács (blacksmith), or Hartmann became Kemény.

    My jewish father had such a surname and spoke Hungarian as his first language. One of my uncles did genealogical research on his family surname, tracing it back hundreds of years in its original German.

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    somewhere else Helga's Avatar
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    I love findagrave.com, one of my favourite websites.

    Here on the ice the community is small, but not as small as many think, we have a website were you can trace your ancestry very far back. Just now I found out that one of my ancestors is Snorri Sturluson who wrote the Prose Edda. He was born in 1179, you can go further back than that.
    Last edited by Helga; 07-18-2016 at 01:00 PM. Reason: wrong name...
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    Card-carrying Medievalist Lokasenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helga View Post
    Just now I found out that one of my ancestors is Snorri Sturluson who wrote the Poetic Edda. He was born in 1179, you can go further back than that.
    I think that's +1000 cool points from me! Does that mean you can negotiate access to his bath at Reykholt? I've a Canadian-Icelandic friend who is a distant descendant of Egill Skallagrímsson on her mother's side, which is also pretty awesome.

    (N.B - Snorri wrote the Prose Edda, not the poetic one. Easy mistake to make.)
    "I should only believe in a God that would know how to dance. And when I saw my devil, I found him serious, thorough, profound, solemn: he was the spirit of gravity- through him all things fall. Not by wrath, but by laughter, do we slay. Come, let us slay the spirit of gravity!" - Nietzsche

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