I hope your health improves. I don't know what it is like to experience a quantum field, but I suspect we are experiencing a lot of reality we have not correctly explained.Originally Posted by August Guelfen
I hope your health improves. I don't know what it is like to experience a quantum field, but I suspect we are experiencing a lot of reality we have not correctly explained.
My blog: https://frankhubeny.blog/
I'm afraid we may be boring anyone reading this thread, YesNo, because we are merely repeating ourselves. You seem emotionally invested in the idea of indeterminacy -- but there is no way to know if the universe is indeterminable or not. FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE is is indeterminate -- and that's all that really matters.
First of all, not all models of "deterministic universes" are "mathematical blocks". Second, let's posit an omniscient God who knows everything that will happen. He's a Calvinist. How does that make any moral difference or aesthetic difference in how we judge or evaluate human behavior? The murderer is still guilty of murder; he still "caused" the death of his victim; it's still reasonable to punish him. Because we don't know future outcomes, we act as if we (and other agents) have free will, even if God knows what we will do beforehand.
When we play poker, the odds of first card dealt off the top of the deck being the Ace of Spades are 1/52 (we think to ourselves). Of course, to the omniscient observer (or simply to the observer who can see the other side of the cards) this is silly -- there is no chance involved. Either the ace is, or is not, on the top of the deck. To the player, however, the odds are a useful fiction that helps him develop successful tactics. Same with free will. The idea that we make choices, and must make choices, about our own behavior is reasonable and even essential, whatever the reality of the universe.
That's why I couldn't care less whether the universe is predetermined or not, and neither should anyone else. We know the order of the cards is predetermined (once they are shuffled), but the ideal way to play the game is to act as if the order is random, because it IS random FOR US.
Consider the card game with a shuffled deck. I don't expect the deck to have free will. Whatever is on top of the deck is on top of the deck. However, I do expect the person who picks the card to have some choices as what to do with the card. The person has some free will. The card deck does not.
Instead of a card deck you could use the computer you are using to type your post. I don't expect the computer to have free will, but I do expect you to.
My blog: https://frankhubeny.blog/
The deck does not have free will. You are right. My point is that the arrangement of the cards in the deck is random from the point of view of the player. However, to an omniscient observer (or anyone who can see the other side of the cards) the arrangement is completely determined. An omniscient God may know exactly what choices we will make, and exactly everything that has happened or will happen in the universe -- but that makes no difference TO US, just as the notion that an omniscient observer would know which card is on the top of the deck makes no difference to the card player. What we mean by free will is that we can make choices unconstrained by outside forces. It is not NECESSARILY true that God's knowledge of what our choices will be constrains them, or makes them less "free". Does our knowledge of the choices we made in the past (which cannot now be changed) mean that they were not "free". I don't think that's how most people would use the word.
As I've explained 20 times in this thread (but, for some reason, you appear not to understand) I don't dispute the idea of free will -- I dispute the idea that it is incompatible with determinism. If a time traveler can go to the future and see what choices we make, then return and know what choices we will make, does that make the choices less "free"? I don't think so. (Of course it may be impossible to go into the future, or to be an omniscient God, but that's another question.)
I don't think time travel is possible. That would be thinking in terms of a block universe. Although I do think presentiment is possible. We can have accurate intuitive guesses about the future.
Kane mentioned that free will is not epistemic, but ontological. It is not about knowledge, but who we are.
Maybe this question will help clarify what I am trying to say: Do you think there is a difference between you and the computer you are using to type these messages? If so, what is it?
My blog: https://frankhubeny.blog/
Hello YesNo, thank you for your answer. We will see what happens next. Today is my 25. birthday and I ask myself, why should this mechanical body built by flesh, define that I was born 25 years ago only because off this so called birth in hospital ? Your last reply on the subject is funny, because I love every form of the imitation game. A.I. is rising and will reach that fantastic level of singularity. Quantom Computing is even more close. I am so glad, that the virtual world will reach life. The combinations of 1 and 0 are dead and smashed. Maybe that could be a little chance to make it a bit better.
You mentioned that you can see, hear and understand quantum fields, August Guelfon. What are they like?
Although quantum computing might happen it doesn't imply many worlds. However, I have my doubts about its feasibility. I also doubt that the singularity will happen. So, when asking Ecurb about what he saw as the difference between himself and a computer I was looking for some answer about subjectivity or the absence of such an answer.
The thread is about perfect Gods. There are a lot of perfect Gods I would reject if I thought they were real. Since they aren't, it is only their bedevilment that remains.
Last edited by YesNo; 04-22-2016 at 05:38 AM.
My blog: https://frankhubeny.blog/
Well, poor boy, first of all the name of my dynasty is Guelfen, if you don't know what it means, try to find it out. Begin to search the dynasty name of Hanoverian Royality. It is Welf, plural Welfen. The last hanoverian queen you perhabs know was the british queen Victoria. Her cousin got the leadership of the kingdom Hannover. The last king on that throne was Georg 5. My greatgrandfather was his eldest greatgrandson. So don't write the british form of my familyname wrong. I find it offensive. I can't make you able to see, even Jesus couldn't and Christ doesn't care, if you try to see, or not. God selected, who will get a real soul and who will burn without one. You can't change that. It's justice. So stop being such a screaming idiot. It is naggering me...
I never heard of Guelfen. Who's Hanover? I figure I can't miss all the hells out there waiting for me.
My blog: https://frankhubeny.blog/
The Guelf faction were papists, vying with the Holy Roman Emperor in 12th century Italy. We should therefore assume that August Guelfen subscribes to orthodox Roman Catholic doctrine when considering the perfection of God.
As to whether I am a computer: I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I might incriminate myself.
Well, you are so absolutly american, I could nearly grin about so much stupid ignorance. But I will tell you again. Do you know who King George 1 of Great Britain and Ireland was ? Yes, he was the first king of England, Scotland and Ireland, who gets the crown because off the new laws of heritage in the good old empire and was the first german monarch to be crowned in Westminster Abbey to King George 1. His son was King George 2., who had to manage the treason of his colony
New England, today your country the USA. Sad but true, George Washington declared after that "war" himself to the first president of the USA. This king had a son, George 3. and I am a direct heir of this bloodline, witch is over 1250 years old. We are probably the eldest royal family on the planet and so the bluest blood in old Europe. Besides, my biologic father is something like the cousin of Charles, Prince of Wales. Yes, the Queens eldest son, so how can you be so ignorant ?
Yawn. Can we return to discussing something in which Americans might have the slightest interest, like Jake Arrieta's no-hitter or the 1908 Cubs?
Oh little working class screamer,
don't you know that significant truth is timeless. So, saying that was before my time, is not only a sign for being stupid, lazy, blind and ignorant, it also shows your weakness to be above your socialisation slavery. So, tell me again, little worker on the cottenfield of Alabama in your so beautiful chains that the human society has some kind of evolutionary potential thanks to democratic gouverments. When you compare it to better autocratic systems, what kind of differences you might see ? I tell you. The autocratic system, which let the real brillant minds in every valid field explore to the condition, that humanistic moral and money are not more the stupid limitations to their fields of knowledge, why such hyperbrillant unique minds should care, how many people die for the realisation of their visions of a better world without that stupid mayority limiting their progress, because of their monkey like riots in the cities ? To date happens something great to the realy gifted persons. It is called internet and the other thing is normaly about social media slavery. They give you the chance to tell your best friends on fbook everything about you and your secret ambitions and you are so thankful for their stupid answers, that you obviously don't notice that big brother collects all your data for selling you nude for the best offer on their slave auction to many new owners and so on. The best thing about that we, the amoral hackers, can get everything over everyone only by stealing data from robbers. But we want to have some fun with our new possitions, so we let you suffering on a special form of torture called make you for everyone transparent, only to count the hours until the groups you are member of, or persons from your dirty past, will take their chance to strike or they will lynch you together for your sins. Sadly, their eyes only see outside, but never inside. So everyone will throw the first stone at the same moment right into your face. Again, the real terrible gouverments are the so called democracies, where everyone of the worthless tries to abuse the elected, given persons and call it justice in populistic liberty. Brave New World, you will die by our sword of real brotherhood in love, because that sword of fire never cuts the living, only the deads. That means nearly everyone out there.
Reapingtime is near. Justice wins in each case. But it is not your kind of justice. God has his favorites, so equality is dead and was never alive. Strange thing about that...
It's not that hard.
My blog: https://frankhubeny.blog/
I know..., so why wasting your time with truth, salvation and cultural values ? Oh, the newest hustler was released yesterday ? So, run little boy your paradise is waiting... All that is so trivial I will cry tears of blood, perhabs inside and out.
I know..., so why wasting your time with truth, salvation and cultural values ? Oh, the newest hustler was released yesterday ? So, run little boy your paradise is waiting... All that is so trivial I will cry tears of blood, perhabs inside and out.
From time to time, it is important to repeat the signs of lament. Never tried Ezra Pound and his Cantos ?
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