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Thread: Where do you get yours?

  1. #46
    Registered User Clopin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emil Miller View Post
    A similar arrangement could be put in place now but it seems that she and her Brussel's cohorts are determined to destroy the nation states of Europe.
    Yes, that's my reading of the situation as well.
    So with the courage of a clown, or a cur, or a kite jerkin tight at it's tether

  2. #47
    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fleamailman View Post
    ("...ah now, the truth will catch us unaware if one is not aware of it first..." replied the goblin who could have lived quite comfortably with the news coverage as it were had there been no internet to refute it utterly, sighing "...alas I'm my soapbox would collapse under the weight of my own conjectures if I were to relate them here, but on youtube I like the keiser report and gerald celente amongst many others now...")
    I checked out the first half of this Keiser report: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U0ia7Y1Yo4 After hearing about "Piggate", I wasn't sure what to think. Is this really news?

    I looked up Gerald Celente. He seems to be a bearish financial forecaster. However, I do think the economy is in the toilet. We just need someone to flush it (or maybe not).

    Interesting source of news. I did not even think to look at YouTube for news.

  3. #48
    Registered User prendrelemick's Avatar
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    Destroying the Nation States of Europe is no biggy. It's happened before and will happen again. The Romans, the Persians, the Aztecs, the Ottomans all distroyed from within and without. But Life goes on, history never ends, you can destroy the political construct - but people will still be grubbing about, as they always are after the fall of states and empires .

    Anyway I don't think that's the trend at the moment, Europe as a single entity is in more danger of breaking up than its Nation States are of being swallowed . The wheel of History has turned, the sepratists, local and national, are in ascendancy (Scottish, Basque, Eastern Ukraine.)
    The Idea of a single Europe was to make war between its States redundant. People were enthusiastic after what they'd been through in the two World Wars, especally in France and Germany. Now people have forgotten, or believe it can't happen here and are splitting off into their tribes.

    Merkel, Hollande and other leaders are essentially powerless against demographic shifts. A sucessful leader is one who follows - and knows it.
    Last edited by prendrelemick; 10-06-2015 at 05:43 AM.
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  4. #49
    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
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    The nation state isn't something to be cast aside simply be reference to history. If that were so, people wouldn't fight and die to protect it. For most people it represent's a way of life they have worked for and adapted to and have no intention of changing it for something they consider less acceptable. Examples of this can be seen in the number of countries that, since the fall of the USSR have reverted to their former nationhood and are still attempting to do so elsewhere. eg. Ireland, Scotland, Catalonia etc. It is in this context that Angela Merkel's actions seem devoid of logic.
    It is not true that national governments are powerless against demographic shifts. If that were the case, the illegal influx of economic migrants that we are currently witnessing would have happened years ago.
    Last edited by Emil Miller; 10-06-2015 at 07:05 AM.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

  5. #50
    Registered User prendrelemick's Avatar
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    We are at cross purposes only in timescale, I'm thinking in millenia. Historically speaking, a nation state never gets to choose the lengh of its term. Look at the current boundries and states within Europe, then compare them 100, 200 years ago. Britain as we know it is 300 years old, and most British are the ancestors of economic immigrants - Celts, Saxons, Vikings, Normans, Hugunots, West Indians. Mass immigration was happening years ago.
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  6. #51
    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
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    The migratory patterns of various peoples across Europe are well documented. In the case of the Celts and Saxons, they occupied land in the British isles that was relatively uninhabited whereas the Romans, Vikings and Normans had to fight their way in because the original immigrants had achieved an established way of life. In all these cases the numbers involved were relatively small.
    European borders during the last 200 years have been changed by the deliberate acts of men such as Napoleon, Bismark, Stalin, Hitler and Woodrow Wilson but they have all reverted to their previous land mass.
    The West Indians were allowed in by an Act of Parliament passed in 1948, there was no way they could have come here otherwise. The words 'mass immigration' are relative to the number of indigenous, ie. settled inhabitants, already living here at the time. Considered to be possibly one of the largest waves of immigrants to Britain, the Huguenots numbered some 50,000 when the overall population was less than four million.
    Last edited by Emil Miller; 10-06-2015 at 11:29 AM.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

  7. #52
    Registered User Clopin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prendrelemick View Post
    Mass immigration was happening years ago.
    So that means it's going to be a positive thing? Or that it's inevitable? I don't think it's either.
    So with the courage of a clown, or a cur, or a kite jerkin tight at it's tether

  8. #53
    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    I was reading Harry Dent's "Demographic Cliff" recently and he seems to favor immigration or anything that will increase the number of younger people in a population, if I remember correctly. The demographic cliff is when a population gets too old lacking younger people for innovation, work and consumption, perhaps especially consumption.

  9. #54
    Registered User prendrelemick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clopin View Post
    So that means it's going to be a positive thing? Or that it's inevitable? I don't think it's either.
    I mean these times are neither special nor unique. As for how it will turn out, I've no idea. There are always unexpected consequences whatever you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by YesNo View Post
    I was reading Harry Dent's "Demographic Cliff" recently and he seems to favor immigration or anything that will increase the number of younger people in a population, if I remember correctly. The demographic cliff is when a population gets too old lacking younger people for innovation, work and consumption, perhaps especially consumption.
    Germany wanted 800,000 refugees for that reason, but even they are being overwhelmed. UK grudgingly will take 50,000 by 2020 - which is pathetic. We could be missing an opportunity here.
    Last edited by prendrelemick; 10-06-2015 at 03:12 PM.
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  10. #55
    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesNo View Post
    I was reading Harry Dent's "Demographic Cliff" recently and he seems to favor immigration or anything that will increase the number of younger people in a population, if I remember correctly.
    The demographic cliff is when a population gets too old lacking younger people for innovation, work and consumption, perhaps especially consumption.
    I have just watched a five-minute video of Harry Dent explaining his favouring of immigration to solve the demographic deficit. What he fails to mention is the fact that the largest number of immigrants into Europe are from Muslim countries. The repercussions from this are obvious to all but the disingenuous and it will end in the total eclipse of Western civilsation that is admittedly, already in the throes of self-inflicted decomposition. Muslims, whether Shiite or Sunni are directed by the Koran to spread their religion wherever they may be. The vacuum left by the abandonment of Christianity by large sections of the European populace in favour of socialism/communism has been noted and will remain a target for muslims in pursuence of their religion's expansion.
    Last edited by Emil Miller; 10-06-2015 at 06:02 PM.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

  11. #56
    Registered User Clopin's Avatar
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    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...s-in-2015.html

    And of course 80% of them are young men. Good stuff.
    So with the courage of a clown, or a cur, or a kite jerkin tight at it's tether

  12. #57
    Registered User prendrelemick's Avatar
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    Yes, that is good stuff, and so is this:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-voyage-europe

    These two articles illustrate the point a already made about the press. The Telegraph seeks to keep refugees as faceless dehumanised statistics, a "Swarm" if you like. The Guardian seeks to individualise them. The Telegraph carefully chooses which statistics to publish in accordance with its editorial agenda, The Guardian chooses and relates the individual's story according to its agenda. They are both catering to their readership and reflecting their owners' political attitude.

    If both are true, you pays your money and takes your pick.
    Last edited by prendrelemick; 10-07-2015 at 06:10 AM.
    ay up

  13. #58
    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emil Miller View Post
    I have just watched a five-minute video of Harry Dent explaining his favouring of immigration to solve the demographic deficit. What he fails to mention is the fact that the largest number of immigrants into Europe are from Muslim countries. The repercussions from this are obvious to all but the disingenuous and it will end in the total eclipse of Western civilsation that is admittedly, already in the throes of self-inflicted decomposition. Muslims, whether Shiite or Sunni are directed by the Koran to spread their religion wherever they may be. The vacuum left by the abandonment of Christianity by large sections of the European populace in favour of socialism/communism has been noted and will remain a target for muslims in pursuence of their religion's expansion.
    The culture would change with immigration. That's a risk, but maybe something good will come out of it.

    I don't think Muslims have any better change of proselytizing than Christians or atheists in liberal democracies. All three of those groups lack an underlying tolerance that clashes with civil liberties. However, the religions of India have an advantage. They offer spirituality and tolerate diversity. People know about chakras, yoga, kundalini, meditation and ayurveda. The vacuum is already being filled.

    However, I wonder if immigration can work anymore. Perhaps it is too late. It may just increase the financial burden on the government to provide services faster than this new population can add to the economy.

  14. #59
    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesNo View Post
    The culture would change with immigration. That's a risk, but maybe something good will come out of it.

    I don't think Muslims have any better change of proselytizing than Christians or atheists in liberal democracies. All three of those groups lack an underlying tolerance that clashes with civil liberties. However, the religions of India have an advantage. They offer spirituality and tolerate diversity. People know about chakras, yoga, kundalini, meditation and ayurveda. The vacuum is already being filled.

    However, I wonder if immigration can work anymore. Perhaps it is too late. It may just increase the financial burden on the government to provide services faster than this new population can add to the economy.
    And yet, despite this intolerance, we have the unedifying spectacle of the German Chancellor inviting mass immigration of Muslims into Germany. She's probably unaware that there are large numbers of people from the Indian sub-continent who have already emigrated to the UK, many of them muslims from Pakistan.
    It's not a question of whether it inceases the financial burden and the need to provide services, it's a fact. There is a drastic housing shortage and school places in some areas are at a premium and yet we are constantly told that immigration is good for the country. This is not the USA which is 40 times larger than the UK. Some areas of London have become virtually impossible to navigate on foot due to the vast number of people there. I found Shanghai to be easier to move around in, so as far as I'm concerned inviting more immigrants is insane.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

  15. #60
    Hello all.

    Yes 95% of the UK press is Tory bias/Murdoch Mafia stuff, so sure I would rather shoot myself that buy one of those! Only the Daily Mirror and the Guardian escape that lot, but the Mirror is also trash. So that leaves me having a look at the Guardian online for bits and pieces here and there, but still even that is a little sneering at times, so I tend to follow the people and things I am interested in on Twitter a little. I also try and watch things like BBC Parliament live channel, so I can watch the politicians first-hand and draw my own conclusions. For example if 3 million people are going to be worse off, but then the Mafia news is about someone who hasn't fastened his top button or sung a song, than I think ha, hold on a minute, hmmm...

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