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Thread: Why isn't chinese literature more popular?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlukesguild View Post
    [COLOR="#B22222"]
    There is an interesting correlation here with the visual arts. Western European art (French, Italian, Austro-German, Dutch, English, and Spanish) and American Art dominate the world art markets and discussions/studies of art... but Japanese art is by far the most influential and popular of Non-Western art. Part of this is likely due to fact that Japanese art shares much with the sensibilities of Modern Western art. The spatial elements and graphic nature of Japanese prints had a profound impact upon the Impressionists, Post-Impressionists, and Expressionists. The decorative aspects of Japanese screen painting... especially of the Momoyama period... impacted artists such as Gustav Klimt, Alphonse Mucha, and many artists and illustrators of the Art Nouveau and Art Deco period. The "Minimalism" and sensitivity to natural materials of Japanese architecture and design had a great impact upon Western Modernist architecture and design.

    Chinese art strikes me... and many others... as overwrought... almost Baroque. As much as I love Persian and Islamic art, it is little-known in Western art circles in comparison to Japanese art. The same could be said of Indian art, African art, South American Art, etc... Western art circles will likely be far more familiar with Hokusai, Hiroshige, and Utamaro than any names of Chinese, Persian, or South American artists. The Japanese have been more successful in digesting Western influences and turning it into something really original. While there are a number of Chinese artists beginning to make a name, too often they seem overly indebted to Western/American Pop Art and installations. One rarely hears of American artists building upon more recent Chinese or Indian art, where this is not true of Japanese art.
    I'd say the reason for that is economic more than aesthetic, StLuke. Japan modernized and industrialized long before China. It's been a first world nation since at least 1905 when it beat the Russians, a great European power, in a war. They've had far better education and far more money for about a century than China has had. They've also been closer trading partners. While China wanted no part of Europe and America the Japanese were selling us wrist watches, telephones, computers, automobiles, you name it. They were buying our companies in the eighties and taking over the globe; so westerners thought it would be advantageous to learn about their culture, the same as we are doing with China now that they are on the rise. When the French were running everything in the sixteen and seventeen hundreds everyone learned French and tried to write like the French. When the British took over everyone learned English. 122 million Mexicans live right below us but nobody studies their culture and emulates them because they are poor.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlukesguild View Post
    I would say, however, that the most successful international literature other than English in the world is Japanese right now - every East Asian, and most European and North American audiences have felt a strong influence, particularly with modernist works. The Chinese government is trying to restrict this influence with no success; as a product Japanese art is far better received than that of anywhere but the United States.

    There is an interesting correlation here with the visual arts. Western European art (French, Italian, Austro-German, Dutch, English, and Spanish) and American Art dominate the world art markets and discussions/studies of art... but Japanese art is by far the most influential and popular of Non-Western art. Part of this is likely due to fact that Japanese art shares much with the sensibilities of Modern Western art. The spatial elements and graphic nature of Japanese prints had a profound impact upon the Impressionists, Post-Impressionists, and Expressionists. The decorative aspects of Japanese screen painting... especially of the Momoyama period... impacted artists such as Gustav Klimt, Alphonse Mucha, and many artists and illustrators of the Art Nouveau and Art Deco period. The "Minimalism" and sensitivity to natural materials of Japanese architecture and design had a great impact upon Western Modernist architecture and design.

    Chinese art strikes me... and many others... as overwrought... almost Baroque. As much as I love Persian and Islamic art, it is little-known in Western art circles in comparison to Japanese art. The same could be said of Indian art, African art, South American Art, etc... Western art circles will likely be far more familiar with Hokusai, Hiroshige, and Utamaro than any names of Chinese, Persian, or South American artists. The Japanese have been more successful in digesting Western influences and turning it into something really original. While there are a number of Chinese artists beginning to make a name, too often they seem overly indebted to Western/American Pop Art and installations. One rarely hears of American artists building upon more recent Chinese or Indian art, where this is not true of Japanese art.
    I was trying to look more at Japanese contemporary art internationally. We see it everywhere, without even realising it. IF we look at martial arts novels, or Hong Kong cinema, we may slowly discover they too are Japanese. I wasn't even thinking about the west. China is by far the greatest importer of all things Japanese.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mortalterror View Post
    I'd say the reason for that is economic more than aesthetic, StLuke. Japan modernized and industrialized long before China. It's been a first world nation since at least 1905 when it beat the Russians, a great European power, in a war. They've had far better education and far more money for about a century than China has had. They've also been closer trading partners. While China wanted no part of Europe and America the Japanese were selling us wrist watches, telephones, computers, automobiles, you name it. They were buying our companies in the eighties and taking over the globe; so westerners thought it would be advantageous to learn about their culture, the same as we are doing with China now that they are on the rise. When the French were running everything in the sixteen and seventeen hundreds everyone learned French and tried to write like the French. When the British took over everyone learned English. 122 million Mexicans live right below us but nobody studies their culture and emulates them because they are poor.
    Fascination with Japan is already nearing 200 years actually. Japanese things have always been popular and accepted/desired, even when the country was in shambles in the 40s. The truth is the greatest importer of Asian artwork in general is the United States.

    However, new laws have made it near impossible for American markets to legally buy any antique Chinese works. Likewise, the failure of their system to create good modern works has basically turned the Chinese arts market abroad into a junk yard with expensive cliche trash. Japan has been consistently pushing the definitions of artwork and literature, whereas, quite simply, China has not.

    I personally collect contemporary artworks of a particular kind - namely pottery. I will say that Japanese works are far better than Taiwanese ones, and Taiwanese ones are far better than most Mainland Chinese ones. The reasons are the creativity in place and the market infrastructure.

    In general I would say China has failed to offer a unique product that we would buy as "Chinese art" or even "art" outside of knocking off traditional models. Japan has constantly been innovating in the arts. That's why we can find great names in contemporary times, but it seems Chinese art has not been able to come out of its traditional models with the same innovation. The same can be said for literature.

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    duplicate, please disregard.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBI View Post
    Fascination with Japan is already nearing 200 years actually. Japanese things have always been popular and accepted/desired, even when the country was in shambles in the 40s. The truth is the greatest importer of Asian artwork in general is the United States.

    However, new laws have made it near impossible for American markets to legally buy any antique Chinese works. Likewise, the failure of their system to create good modern works has basically turned the Chinese arts market abroad into a junk yard with expensive cliche trash. Japan has been consistently pushing the definitions of artwork and literature, whereas, quite simply, China has not.

    I personally collect contemporary artworks of a particular kind - namely pottery. I will say that Japanese works are far better than Taiwanese ones, and Taiwanese ones are far better than most Mainland Chinese ones. The reasons are the creativity in place and the market infrastructure.

    In general I would say China has failed to offer a unique product that we would buy as "Chinese art" or even "art" outside of knocking off traditional models. Japan has constantly been innovating in the arts. That's why we can find great names in contemporary times, but it seems Chinese art has not been able to come out of its traditional models with the same innovation. The same can be said for literature.
    One media that I do make an attempt to stay current with is film and China has done well in that medium in recent decades. When I see one art form flourishing, it makes me wonder if others aren't doing likewise in that culture.

    2011 Warriors of the Rainbow: Seediq Bale
    2009 City of Life and Death
    2008 Red Cliff
    2006 Curse of the Golden Flower
    2004 2046
    2002 Infernal Affairs, Hero
    2000 Devils on the Doorstep, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon
    1995 Shanghai Triad
    1994 To Live
    1993 Farewell My Concubine
    1991 Raise the Red Lantern

    and from my que of films I need to see
    In the Mood For Love (2000)
    Yi Yi (2000)
    Not One Less (1999)
    The Road Home(1999)
    The King of Masks (1997)
    Happy Together (1997)
    Temptress Moon (1996)
    The Legend of Drunken Master(1994)
    Tai Chi Master(1993)
    The Story of Qiu Ju(1991)
    Days of Being Wild(1990)
    Ju Dou(1990)
    Bullet in the Head (1990)
    Dragon's Forever(1988)
    Red Sorghum(1987)

    Now, I'm not sure but aren't Zhang Yimou's works usually adaptations of popular literature: Red Sorghum, To Live, Ju Dou, Raise the Red Lantern, Story of Qiu Ju, Not One Less, Shanghai Triad, The Road Home? This at least suggests that there are a few works of literature worth reading being produced in China in contemporary times.

    As far as the modern literary scene goes, isn't Wolf Totem supposed to be good? I know I've seen you championing Fortress Besieged from the middle of the last century and I've very much enjoyed Lu Xun from around the twenties. I didn't get that far into them but I liked what I read of Rickshaw Boy and that autobiographical book you recommended once about the dude who came back from being re-educated and his own family had turned against him. It had a title like Mirror something Flowers maybe? Anyway, pretty sad stuff, but well written. They've got a billion people over there so someone is probably doing something worthwhile, even if we aren't hearing about it all the way over here.

    In sculpture, I like their Rent Collection Courtyard produced in 1965, and the contemporary busts of Ah Xian. I like Zhang Daqian's paintings. And when it comes to the older stuff, I think people really like their landscapes. There is stuff out there, so the culture isn't completely bankrupt.
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    Your list lacks Jia Zhangke, who is considered the greatest living chinese director. You also should see the films fro the underground documentary movement china, especially the epic documentaries Tie Xi Qu: West of the Tracks and Karamay. Those two rival Shoah for greatest documentary, though karamay doesn't seem to have a dvd but can be found on youtube.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustave dore View Post
    Your list lacks Jia Zhangke, who is considered the greatest living chinese director. You also should see the films fro the underground documentary movement china, especially the epic documentaries Tie Xi Qu: West of the Tracks and Karamay. Those two rival Shoah for greatest documentary, though karamay doesn't seem to have a dvd but can be found on youtube.
    Jia Zhangke, the greatest living director, according to who? I saw his Touch of Sin. It didn't impress me. The films of Wong Kar Wai and Zhang Yimou have blown me away. As for the greatest documentary that's Hearts and Minds, although Bowling For Columbine, Fog of War, Harlan County USA, One Day in September, The Man With the Movie Camera, and Woodstock are pretty good too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortalterror View Post
    I'd say the reason for that is economic more than aesthetic, StLuke. Japan modernized and industrialized long before China. It's been a first world nation since at least 1905 when it beat the Russians, a great European power, in a war. They've had far better education and far more money for about a century than China has had. They've also been closer trading partners. While China wanted no part of Europe and America the Japanese were selling us wrist watches, telephones, computers, automobiles, you name it. They were buying our companies in the eighties and taking over the globe; so westerners thought it would be advantageous to learn about their culture, the same as we are doing with China now that they are on the rise. When the French were running everything in the sixteen and seventeen hundreds everyone learned French and tried to write like the French. When the British took over everyone learned English. 122 million Mexicans live right below us but nobody studies their culture and emulates them because they are poor.
    This is very interesting post. Spot on! Does it mean that a taste of art is dictated by economy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBI View Post
    I personally collect contemporary artworks of a particular kind - namely pottery. I will say that Japanese works are far better than Taiwanese ones, and Taiwanese ones are far better than most Mainland Chinese ones. The reasons are the creativity in place and the market infrastructure.

    In general I would say China has failed to offer a unique product that we would buy as "Chinese art" or even "art" outside of knocking off traditional models. Japan has constantly been innovating in the arts. That's why we can find great names in contemporary times, but it seems Chinese art has not been able to come out of its traditional models with the same innovation. The same can be said for literature.
    I had watched a BBC program couple of weeks ago - Chinese teachers had been invited to the British school to teach kids using their own system. Children were divided in 2 groups - some stayed in British system, others were taught by Chinese teachers. The idea - to compare the results. Well... Chinese had won in every subject (including... English), however the teachers where shocked to discover that their system depresses the personality. Discipline, technical knowledge, hard work - all in place. However creativity, imaginative tasks, expressing own opinion do not exist in the Chinese system (if to believe to this program). So, if this is a case, an area of art would suffer. Creativity and expressing a personal world are crucial for anything - from pottery to literature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mortalterror View Post
    One media that I do make an attempt to stay current with is film and China has done well in that medium in recent decades. When I see one art form flourishing, it makes me wonder if others aren't doing likewise in that culture.

    2011 Warriors of the Rainbow: Seediq Bale
    2009 City of Life and Death
    2008 Red Cliff
    2006 Curse of the Golden Flower
    2004 2046
    2002 Infernal Affairs, Hero
    2000 Devils on the Doorstep, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon
    1995 Shanghai Triad
    1994 To Live
    1993 Farewell My Concubine
    1991 Raise the Red Lantern

    and from my que of films I need to see
    In the Mood For Love (2000)
    Yi Yi (2000)
    Not One Less (1999)
    The Road Home(1999)
    The King of Masks (1997)
    Happy Together (1997)
    Temptress Moon (1996)
    The Legend of Drunken Master(1994)
    Tai Chi Master(1993)
    The Story of Qiu Ju(1991)
    Days of Being Wild(1990)
    Ju Dou(1990)
    Bullet in the Head (1990)
    Dragon's Forever(1988)
    Red Sorghum(1987)

    Now, I'm not sure but aren't Zhang Yimou's works usually adaptations of popular literature: Red Sorghum, To Live, Ju Dou, Raise the Red Lantern, Story of Qiu Ju, Not One Less, Shanghai Triad, The Road Home? This at least suggests that there are a few works of literature worth reading being produced in China in contemporary times.

    As far as the modern literary scene goes, isn't Wolf Totem supposed to be good? I know I've seen you championing Fortress Besieged from the middle of the last century and I've very much enjoyed Lu Xun from around the twenties. I didn't get that far into them but I liked what I read of Rickshaw Boy and that autobiographical book you recommended once about the dude who came back from being re-educated and his own family had turned against him. It had a title like Mirror something Flowers maybe? Anyway, pretty sad stuff, but well written. They've got a billion people over there so someone is probably doing something worthwhile, even if we aren't hearing about it all the way over here.

    In sculpture, I like their Rent Collection Courtyard produced in 1965, and the contemporary busts of Ah Xian. I like Zhang Daqian's paintings. And when it comes to the older stuff, I think people really like their landscapes. There is stuff out there, so the culture isn't completely bankrupt.
    Quote Originally Posted by mortalterror View Post
    Jia Zhangke, the greatest living director, according to who? I saw his Touch of Sin. It didn't impress me. The films of Wong Kar Wai and Zhang Yimou have blown me away. As for the greatest documentary that's Hearts and Minds, although Bowling For Columbine, Fog of War, Harlan County USA, One Day in September, The Man With the Movie Camera, and Woodstock are pretty good too.
    West of the tracks and karamay blow up most of those away.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustave dore View Post
    West of the tracks and karamay blow up most of those away.
    I highly doubt that. The content may tug at your heart strings, stories that involve dead children often do, but it's hard to outdo the documentaries I listed in terms of skill. The clips I saw don't warrant that kind of comparison. Besides, West of the Tracks just sounds like an overly long Roger and Me.
    Last edited by mortalterror; 08-28-2015 at 10:55 PM.
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  12. #27
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    I'd say the reason for that is economic more than aesthetic, StLuke.

    Economics can impact the export of culture... but I doubt that economics were of the least concern to the various European and American artists from the late 19th and early 20th centuries who built upon Japanese art. The Japanese aesthetic was simply far more in line with Western Modern aesthetics.

    Japan modernized and industrialized long before China. It's been a first world nation since at least 1905 when it beat the Russians, a great European power, in a war. They've had far better education and far more money for about a century than China has had. They've also been closer trading partners. While China wanted no part of Europe and America the Japanese were selling us wrist watches, telephones, computers, automobiles, you name it.

    This may be true... but it has little to do with the embrace of Japanese art by Western artists and art lovers. When the Japanese pandered to Western aesthetics, the quality of the work greatly declined.

    They were buying our companies in the eighties and taking over the globe; so westerners thought it would be advantageous to learn about their culture, the same as we are doing with China now that they are on the rise.

    The influence of Japanese art far predates the 1970s and 80s... by 100 years or more. The influence and popularity of Japanese art rose again almost immediately following WWII while the German aesthetic (Expressionism) in art disappeared from the end of the war until the 1980s... when the German economy led to a renewed sense of German pride and German art reasserted the "Germanic" elements and stopped playing at producing "humble" variations of American and European abstraction. Certainly, art follows wealth and power... but this is not always true... nor is it always true in every artistic form. Russian "Classical" music almost dominated the first half of the 20th century and Russian literature of the period was also quite impressive... but after Kandinsky, Russian painting achieved very little.

    When the French were running everything in the sixteen and seventeen hundreds everyone learned French and tried to write like the French. When the British took over everyone learned English. 122 million Mexicans live right below us but nobody studies their culture and emulates them because they are poor.

    Again, this is not true of all artistic genre. While France and Spain and England were the great powers from the 1500s-1900s the Austro-Germans and Italians dominated music. With the exception of the Romantic period and Blake, Constable, and Turner the English achieved very little in painting. French music burned out with the Baroque and they didn't become a major player again until the mid-19th century. The Italian, Flemish (Belgian), and Dutch Baroque far and away surpasses that of the French or English painting of the same period... in spite of the continual wars and financial struggles in comparison to France and England.

    Again, Art follows wealth and power... but this is not a simple formula. England was far wealthier and more powerful than France during the late-19th/early 20th centuries, but Paris, Vienna... and later Berlin produced far more lasting and influential painting and music during this period.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Margerma View Post
    I had watched a BBC program couple of weeks ago - Chinese teachers had been invited to the British school to teach kids using their own system. Children were divided in 2 groups - some stayed in British system, others were taught by Chinese teachers. The idea - to compare the results. Well... Chinese had won in every subject (including... English), however the teachers where shocked to discover that their system depresses the personality. Discipline, technical knowledge, hard work - all in place. However creativity, imaginative tasks, expressing own opinion do not exist in the Chinese system (if to believe to this program). So, if this is a case, an area of art would suffer. Creativity and expressing a personal world are crucial for anything - from pottery to literature.
    Firstly, the results were messed up because it took an ideal of the Chinese system - not the actual Chinese system which is underfunded, poorly staffed and semi-educated as found in the majority of somewhat remote areas in China where the bulk of the population lives. Secondly, statistics over such a short period don't point to anything.

    I teach professionally and I can say the biggest difference is, is that Western students develop skills that are more useful, whereas Chinese students are merely digesting facts. In the real world, you use the most basic math skills pretty much, and rely on natural personality traits for the majority of work. They lack the motivation, creativity, leadership traits or basic social skills to function outside of a fact-grinding classroom.

    That being said, most Chinese students are not taught like this, as, like in many developing countries, Chinese education is a mixed bag. The top university students however, seem to be quite useless in regard to practical skill, and normally aren't fit for any form of work after graduation.

    I would say the kids who underwent the study will be damaged for a long time to come, and shouldn't have been subjected to such a regimen.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by stlukesguild View Post
    I'd say the reason for that is economic more than aesthetic, StLuke.

    Economics can impact the export of culture... but I doubt that economics were of the least concern to the various European and American artists from the late 19th and early 20th centuries who built upon Japanese art. The Japanese aesthetic was simply far more in line with Western Modern aesthetics.

    Japan modernized and industrialized long before China. It's been a first world nation since at least 1905 when it beat the Russians, a great European power, in a war. They've had far better education and far more money for about a century than China has had. They've also been closer trading partners. While China wanted no part of Europe and America the Japanese were selling us wrist watches, telephones, computers, automobiles, you name it.

    This may be true... but it has little to do with the embrace of Japanese art by Western artists and art lovers. When the Japanese pandered to Western aesthetics, the quality of the work greatly declined.

    They were buying our companies in the eighties and taking over the globe; so westerners thought it would be advantageous to learn about their culture, the same as we are doing with China now that they are on the rise.

    The influence of Japanese art far predates the 1970s and 80s... by 100 years or more. The influence and popularity of Japanese art rose again almost immediately following WWII while the German aesthetic (Expressionism) in art disappeared from the end of the war until the 1980s... when the German economy led to a renewed sense of German pride and German art reasserted the "Germanic" elements and stopped playing at producing "humble" variations of American and European abstraction. Certainly, art follows wealth and power... but this is not always true... nor is it always true in every artistic form. Russian "Classical" music almost dominated the first half of the 20th century and Russian literature of the period was also quite impressive... but after Kandinsky, Russian painting achieved very little.

    When the French were running everything in the sixteen and seventeen hundreds everyone learned French and tried to write like the French. When the British took over everyone learned English. 122 million Mexicans live right below us but nobody studies their culture and emulates them because they are poor.

    Again, this is not true of all artistic genre. While France and Spain and England were the great powers from the 1500s-1900s the Austro-Germans and Italians dominated music. With the exception of the Romantic period and Blake, Constable, and Turner the English achieved very little in painting. French music burned out with the Baroque and they didn't become a major player again until the mid-19th century. The Italian, Flemish (Belgian), and Dutch Baroque far and away surpasses that of the French or English painting of the same period... in spite of the continual wars and financial struggles in comparison to France and England.

    Again, Art follows wealth and power... but this is not a simple formula. England was far wealthier and more powerful than France during the late-19th/early 20th centuries, but Paris, Vienna... and later Berlin produced far more lasting and influential painting and music during this period.
    To add to this, Canadian modernist art is a mix of Impressionism and Japanese artworks, and impressionism and much of European art toward the beginning of the 20th century was fairly "Asian" in the sense that it was highly influenced by East Asian ideas. Before that even you have gardens and pottery totally re-configuring how people understood art in the traditional sense - the Asiatic has always been popular since the 18th century, and even before that.

    This is not to say Japan had not been artistically successful abroad before it was economically successful. The strange thing with the American experience is simply it imported things in a different way, mostly in modern times, and through Japan first, whereas Europe had been dealing in Chinese antiques for hundreds of years prior to that, and had more established older territories and colonies abroad to move them around. When you think of influence you can consider, for instance, the style of decoration, but you can also consider over the past 300 years, starting with the Dutch, how many people's lives, decorations and styles of living have been altered by something as simple as tea. You need a tea room, you need tea decorations, a tea table, and also a time of the day to consume it. You develop an entire culture around such things.

    Now, the US is incredibly different in that its gaze has been focused on Japan primarily, due to geographic proximity. Though you would be shocked, for instance, to think of the large collections of all sorts of Japanese art floating around Europe, collections with particularly long histories, namely in England of course, but also a sizeable collection of Japanese prints in Venice of all places. Japan has been adored in Western eyes and collections almost as soon as it entered the map in Western imaginations.


    I'd say in terms of literature, however, because of this strange Americanism that went through Japan first, many ideas of Chinese literature were more or less filtered through Japanese aesthetic traditions and arrived in a highly idealized, exotic forms; forms which disappeared in China over the centuries but fermented in Japan. Things like Buddhism and Eroticism were more or less purged in China over the centuries, or else totally reconsidered and reworked, whereas in Japan they flourished and developed in a more refined direction. So when we consider, for instance, erotic poetry from Japan, we see something which was pretty much pushed out of most Chinese literature 900 odd years ago, whereas if we look at Tang dynasty, or even early Song dynasty art-work, we see the models for such forms, and the culture in which they were formulated.


    That all being said, England was hardly a power in 1600 when Shakespeare was writing his works, it wasn't even a power in 1700. If you look on maps and in history, the great power is the Spanish crown and the Holy Roman empire. As for German literature, it didn't really flourish, and as for Spanish influence in the world, well, not as much as other things at the time in England. the actual politics and power only slightly correspond. 18th century exploration of Roman and Greek ruins did a lot to change the face of European artwork at the time, but that does not mean it necessarily corresponded to Greek - or at this time Turkish - economic growth.


    Simply put, Dutch merchants were ruling the seas for centuries; we like Dutch artwork and accepted and incorporated much into the English speaking culture - we even got tea drinking from the Netherlands first, strangely enough - and the monarchy of England is even a Dutch import. This is all fine, but I am hard pressed to find the connection between Dutch literature and any form of English literature in almost any place in the world. The tradition of letters evolved outside of Dutch economic dominance or even cultural importance.

    The thing about modern culture is this; Korea may be able to promote Korean art and music and cinema for a time, but much of our habits are not following Korea, despite the sizable chunk of money they throw at us. Pop music in Korea is just a modified form of music that was developed in the United States in the 80s and 90s, and reworked by Japanese and Korean artists into a different language. That we don't listen to it regularly attests to the fact that it is unable to really drag us or sway us or change our views of things. Japanese art and technology as recently as our current age is actually doing that and much more, and we are looking to those models for guidance and inspiration, despite the fact that the Japanese economy has been in decline for over 30 years.


    As for the influence of art in the late 19th century, well I think we don't give England enough credit. Sure in terms of direct genealogy the connection is less clear, but you have to also consider English colonies abroad, and the proliferation of foreign "Oriental" artwork and African artwork that this really entailed. Sure we can find a clear genealogy, but the impressionism we love so much would not have been the same without the intensive asiatic influence.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by mortalterror View Post
    and from my que of films I need to see
    In the Mood For Love (2000)
    Yi Yi (2000)
    Not One Less (1999)
    The Road Home(1999)
    The King of Masks (1997)
    Happy Together (1997)
    Temptress Moon (1996)
    The Legend of Drunken Master(1994)
    Tai Chi Master(1993)
    The Story of Qiu Ju(1991)
    Days of Being Wild(1990)
    Ju Dou(1990)
    Bullet in the Head (1990)
    Dragon's Forever(1988)
    Red Sorghum(1987)
    Thats an excellent compilation of Chinese films. I want to watch those Chinese films but I just need to make sure theyre in subtitle. It should be ok.

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