The Bible. Myth or Reality?

[Gnostic Bishop]

The Bible. Myth or Reality?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAEpc1zhcuo

As a Gnostic Christian I see literal reading of the Bible as a gross distortion of what the Bible was written to do. That being to inspire people to seek God and his best laws and rules. Literal readers just become idol worshipers and do not seek God the way Jesus instructed.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Literal reading has created and idol worshiping closed minded people who have settled for an immoral God whom we name as a demiurge as his morals, if literally true, are more satanic than God like.

Literal reading has also created a climate where scholars and experts, historians and archeologist, and all the academically well accepted information they uncover, --- is being ignored or called lies by those who are not academics of the various disciplines.

What is the point of producing good academics if literalists are going to ignore facts because of blind faith?

Remember please that if not a book of myths, then real talking serpents are somehow supposed to still exist and believers have to believe in a lot of supernatural phenomenon without any evidence whatsoever. Literalist Christians, it seems to me, have suspended rational judgement that has created in Christians a new Dark Age of thought and an Inquisitional attitude towards all other thinking. They no longer seek God and are true idol worshipers instead of the God seekers that Jesus wanted to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvBxFXQy7-M


Do you think the Bible to be a book of myths or a book trying to show reality and history?

Regards
DL

[YesNo]

Literal reading has also created a climate where scholars and experts, historians and archeologist, and all the academically well accepted information they uncover, --- is being ignored or called lies by those who are not academics of the various disciplines.

What is the point of producing good academics if literalists are going to ignore facts because of blind faith?

People are free to accept what they want and ignore the rest. It doesn't matter who is trying to shove it down their throats. If academics cannot convince others with the arguments they currently use, they need to come up with better arguments.

Portraying opponents as "literalists" who are "idol worshipers" or as people who "no longer seek God" is not a rational argument.

[Gnostic Bishop]

People are free to accept what they want and ignore the rest. It doesn't matter who is trying to shove it down their throats. If academics cannot convince others with the arguments they currently use, they need to come up with better arguments.

Portraying opponents as "literalists" who are "idol worshipers" or as people who "no longer seek God" is not a rational argument.

It is a truth.

As to your --- "People are free to accept what they want and ignore the rest".

This is also true but if you ignore or do not try to correct poor or harmful thinking, then you have no moral social conscience and are not worth listening to.

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02...list=PLCBF574D

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2zhlDbMfDg

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI

Jesus Camp 1of 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

Death to Gays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuKLyGUHNE

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

[YesNo]

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

How do you view the Khmer Rouge and what happened in Cambodia? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKy9Ab7twUA

[Clopin]

Not to mention Stalin and Mao.

[cacian]

not to be rude or anything but with regard to harmful thinking and moral judgement why does everything has to come from a book?
why cant an individual use their common sense to know what is decent and what is not? about time they practiced their own moral thinking/
a bible is the classic moral high ground to telling people how to conduct their lives
it is the same as law and corporal punishment
they are both the same their intent is to control the individual asset into reducing it to nothing.
a book of law is the same as the bible they both recourse to punishment instead of embellishment.
i don't see the difference between going to court and swearing by the bible and going to church and praying to a god
they are both inclusive and so it makes one think.
what would a judge do with the bible swearing bit?

[YesNo]

I've only read small parts of the Bible, but I would expect there to be sections that were just set of laws.

There are also stories in it, some of the best I hear are in Genesis and originally written by a J (Yahwist) source. I don't take these to be literally true any more than I take the stories in the Bhagavatam to be literally true, but that doesn't mean they aren't true at another level.

[Gnostic Bishop]

How do you view the Khmer Rouge and what happened in Cambodia? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKy9Ab7twUA

As ancient history that hopefully will not be repeated.

Why the deflection?

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

not to be rude or anything but with regard to harmful thinking and moral judgement why does everything has to come from a book?
why cant an individual use their common sense to know what is decent and what is not? about time they practiced their own moral thinking/
a bible is the classic moral high ground to telling people how to conduct their lives
it is the same as law and corporal punishment
they are both the same their intent is to control the individual asset into reducing it to nothing.
a book of law is the same as the bible they both recourse to punishment instead of embellishment.
i don't see the difference between going to court and swearing by the bible and going to church and praying to a god
they are both inclusive and so it makes one think.
what would a judge do with the bible swearing bit?

Most will accept a personal oath these days.

Thinking for ones self is good and many do so.

Sheeple though are afraid to go against the status quo or their peers. It is surprisingly hard to step up in your own community and tell the majority that they are full of it.

Sheeple do not make good goats, that is why they are sheeple.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

I've only read small parts of the Bible, but I would expect there to be sections that were just set of laws.

There are also stories in it, some of the best I hear are in Genesis and originally written by a J (Yahwist) source. I don't take these to be literally true any more than I take the stories in the Bhagavatam to be literally true, but that doesn't mean they aren't true at another level.

Sure there is law in the bible.

But should you look for good law from a genocidal son murderer?

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

If the bible has any good laws then you would thing our better secular system of law would have incorporated some of it.

At the same time, the bible is a great place to find good morals but you have to read it the was we Gnostic Christians do to not call evil good the way Christians do.

Said of Gnostic Christian versus Christian bible reading practices.

“Both read the Bible day and night; but you read black where I read white.”
William Blake.

I would take this further and advise you to read any scriptures from as many POV as is within you. Question everything including yourself.

The bible, if read as a book of wisdom, does have much wisdom though.

You just have to read it the way Gnostics do and revers a lot of the Christian morals.

Christians call evil good while Gnostic Christians call evil, evil.

I E. Gnostic Christians think that bible God, the demiurge to us, is quite immoral for thinking that torturing King David’s baby for 6 days before finally killing it is quite evil while Christians think that a good form of justice.

Regards
DL

[YesNo]

As ancient history that hopefully will not be repeated.

Why the deflection?

Regards
DL

It is not ancient history. It happened less than 50 years ago. What Constantine did through the early Christians to the various gnostic groups over 1500 years ago is ancient history.

The reason I am bringing this up is to show that making moral arguments against Christians can be turned easily back on their accusers after the events of the last two centuries.

You cited a video in one of your other threads:

My apotheosis was not to the bible God or any other creator God. They are all myths.

What I found was more down to earth.

https://vimeo.com/26318064

Nothing I believe requires the suspension of my critical thinking.

If you cannot believe what this science is showing and which I believe to be real, then nothing I can say will likely touch your curiosity.

Much of the content of that video about the sixth sense I agree with. However, I don't see how that fits into only the version of Chrisitianity you are promoting. It would seem to support panentheistic views in general which include traditional Christianity.

I suspect the personal "apotheosis" idea that you are promoting is a misunderstanding of the "cosmic consciousness" idea presented in that movie.

[Melanie]

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

I'd like to see proof of this statement from scripture….one scripture at a time please. I'll be happy to prove it wrong every time. God is and always has been a God of love. I've done this before here in other threads (search them if you'd like) and I don't mind doing it again. Some readers of the Bible, read only what they want to see. But they take it out of context…you can't do that if you want the truth. I have an appointment soon so I won't be able to send posts rapid-fire, but in time, today, I will answer every scripture…one at a time as it's a lot to cover.

YesNo...Genesis has a lot of genealogy in it which somewhat bogs down the delightful accounts of origin and eternal truths, resolving enigmas of mysteries and puzzling situations in the light of God's will. You just have to skim over all the genealogy. From creation to the introduction of sin to the tragic accumulation of man's wickedness that almost brought annihilation to the human society which I find depressing to read for long because of the fruits of sin in defeat. I prefer the New Testament beginning with the book of John (because the books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke are similarly the same account as John)

[Jackson Richardson]

The title of this thread includes two fallacies:

ONE That the Bible is a consistent and united text. It is a library of texts: the Jewish scriptures having been accumulated over some thousand years as the canon of a people. It includes a variety of approaches to God. The Christian community accepted this canon as the context in which to describe the saving work they experienced in the death and resurrection of Christ. Over time they realised which of their own texts, as used in worship, were authoritative.

TWO That myth and reality are incompatible and the only two categories to describe experience. Modern philosophy and indeed science accept there is no way of describing reality other than in symbols. A myth can well be a symbol of something important. Liberal Christians may well say the resurrection shows that love is stronger than death, irrespective of what happened to Jesus’ body. I think it is more than just that, but is certainly means that.

[Gnostic Bishop]

It is not ancient history. It happened less than 50 years ago. What Constantine did through the early Christians to the various gnostic groups over 1500 years ago is ancient history.

The reason I am bringing this up is to show that making moral arguments against Christians can be turned easily back on their accusers after the events of the last two centuries.

Sure but then I would throw the Dark Ages and Inquisition out there and get back to whatever the real issue was.

You cited a video in one of your other threads:



Much of the content of that video about the sixth sense I agree with. However, I don't see how that fits into only the version of Chrisitianity you are promoting. It would seem to support panentheistic views in general which include traditional Christianity.

It would yes and that is what I basically sell.

I have this that shows a bit of history and the rest shows what I promote and you will see that any religion or even atheists can access their higher minds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02...list=PLCBF574D

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRN...layer_embedded

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.

-----------------------

The higher mind I speak of though is not to the cosmic consciousness. That is the next step.

I suspect the personal "apotheosis" idea that you are promoting is a misunderstanding of the "cosmic consciousness" idea presented in that movie.

Correct. Apotheosis is finding yourself on Jacob's ladder and recognizing that there is something unseen out there.

My experience just showed a bit more of what that something is. It indicated that it was the final evolution of mankind's consciousness.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic Bishop]

I'd like to see proof of this statement from scripture….one scripture at a time please. I'll be happy to prove it wrong every time. God is and always has been a God of love. I've done this before here in other threads (search them if you'd like) and I don't mind doing it again. Some readers of the Bible, read only what they want to see. But they take it out of context…you can't do that if you want the truth. I have an appointment soon so I won't be able to send posts rapid-fire, but in time, today, I will answer every scripture…one at a time as it's a lot to cover.

YesNo...Genesis has a lot of genealogy in it which somewhat bogs down the delightful accounts of origin and eternal truths, resolving enigmas of mysteries and puzzling situations in the light of God's will. You just have to skim over all the genealogy. From creation to the introduction of sin to the tragic accumulation of man's wickedness that almost brought annihilation to the human society which I find depressing to read for long because of the fruits of sin in defeat. I prefer the New Testament beginning with the book of John (because the books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke are similarly the same account as John)

" infanticidal".

I use the main three instances of this but there are more. King David's baby, the great flood and the first born of Egypt. All show God as an infanticidal demiurge.

Lets do the following.

I use the story of King David's baby that God tortured for six days before finally killing it.

Can you justify the torture and killing of that baby?

Regards
DL