The Third Man - Graham Greene

[Pompey Bum]

Okay. I just voted.

[easy75]

I'd be up for it, though I would have to get started pretty quick. I've haven't read it yet... When would discussion start?
Also, I don't think I have earned enough points to vote yet.

[Pompey Bum]

It's not that long a read, EZ. What's this about points and reading? Doesn't sound very democratic to me.

[Emil Miller]

For those who haven't read The Power and the Glory, it's worth pointing out that it's Greene's most overtly Catholic novel
and might come as a surprise to readers of The Third Man or Our Man in Havana for example.
Oddly enough, Greene went to Mexico, where the story is set, to escape a libel suit following a review in his capacity
as a film critic, of a Shirley Temple film in which the studio accused him of suggesting they were exploiting the girl for
immoral purposes.
Personally, I didn't like the book which has at least two major inconsistencies in it and unlike many of Greene's
other novels, it doesn't appear to have been filmed.

[Pompey Bum]

I was thinking something similar, although since the Vatican banned the book, it might be better to call it the Catholic Greene's most overtly religious novel. (The pope who banned it is supposed to have told Greene that it was just business--personally he thought it was a pretty good book). I suppose I feel the same way (although I'm not a Catholic). I could see things in the book that I don't accept, but I still found it a moving and intelligent novel. For those who don't know the premise it's about an alcoholic priest with a common law wife who chooses to remain at large during a short-lived persecution of Catholic priests in the Mexican state of Tabasco during the 1930s; even though most of the other priests have already surrendered to the government. I would recommend it (I voted for it), but only if we can discuss matters of faith (and atheism) without going on the warpath. Otherwise, we should read something else.

The movie version (I guess I'm talking to Emil now) was called The Fugitive. It was directed by John Ford and starred Henry Fonda as the whiskey priest. There was also a television version in the early 60s with Sir Laurence Olivier as the priest.

[Emil Miller]

The movie version (I guess I'm talking to Emil now) was called The Fugitive. It was directed by John Ford and starred Henry Fonda as the whiskey priest. There was also a television version in the early 60s with Sir Laurence Olivier as the priest.

Thanks for the info. I imagine that the title was changed because there is an earlier film called The Power and the Glory starring Spencer Tracy but it has nothing to do with Greene's story. I always suspect, perhaps wrongly, that the Vatican doesn't entirely trust converted Catholics because they feel the need to prove themselves and are something of a loose canon. Greene's flirtation with the left wing is unlikely to have impressed the Holy See.

[easy75]

It's not that long a read, EZ. What's this about points and reading? Doesn't sound very democratic to me.

Okay. But I'm right in the middle of an Arkady Renko story that I need to see through to completion. Regarding voting, I tried to vote and it said I was not allowed. Maybe I'm too new. Or maybe it's because I'm black. But how would the computer know?

For those who haven't read The Power and the Glory, it's worth pointing out that it's Greene's most overtly Catholic novel
and might come as a surprise to readers of The Third Man or Our Man in Havana for example.
Oddly enough, Greene went to Mexico, where the story is set, to escape a libel suit following a review in his capacity
as a film critic, of a Shirley Temple film in which the studio accused him of suggesting they were exploiting the girl for
immoral purposes.
Personally, I didn't like the book which has at least two major inconsistencies in it and unlike many of Greene's
other novels, it doesn't appear to have been filmed.

Graham Greene was an interesting character, wasn't he? Maybe we should read his biography instead. lol

I would recommend it (I voted for it), but only if we can discuss matters of faith (and atheism) without going on the warpath. Otherwise, we should read something else.

I'm good with that. But I can only vouch for me

[Emil Miller]

Okay. But I'm right in the middle of an Arkady Renko story that I need to see through to completion. Regarding voting, I tried to vote and it said I was not allowed. Maybe I'm too new. Or maybe it's because I'm black. But how would the computer know?



Graham Greene was an interesting character, wasn't he? Maybe we should read his biography instead. lol



I'm good with that. But I can only vouch for me

It's nothing to do with being black, yellow, white or any other colour but I believe it's based on the number of posts
a member has submitted.

Yes, Greene certainly was an interesting character and his authorised biographer Norman Sherry is as good a
read as any of Greene's novels

[Pompey Bum]

Thanks for the info. I imagine that the title was changed because there is an earlier film called The Power and the Glory starring Spencer Tracy but it has nothing to do with Greene's story.

It probably had something to do with that, but the studio was surely also trying to downplay the Catholic aspect. There was still a lot of anti-Catholic bigotry in America in 1947, and from a pecuniary point of view, a "Catholic movie" called The Power and the Glory would have been seen as having a much smaller customer base than a John Ford western called The Fugitive. Then as now, the mighty buck ruled.

TI always suspect, perhaps wrongly, that the Vatican doesn't entirely trust converted Catholics because they feel the need to prove themselves and are something of a loose canon. Greene's flirtation with the left wing is unlikely to have impressed the Holy See.

I think you're right, especially when the convert wants to tell his newly chosen orthodoxy how to do things. If you've read Sherry (which I have not), you may know that there was a story that went around that Greene's conversion was never sincere, but cynically calculated--as part of his alleged work for British intelligence? I never quite got the story. And while I don't think that it's generally accepted, neither is it considered a looney conspiracy theory--more of an ugly rumor no one wants to talk about.

But the reason that the Vatican didn't like The Power and the Glory was the bad light in which it put priests and (in their view) the Church itself. The whiskey priest is no hero: he is weak, drunken, promiscuous, and a coward; and the other priests in the novel are bigger cowards. But I think what really bothered them was that the book's resolution could be taken to imply that the Catholic Church lies as a matter of course (I don't want to say more, since not everyone has read it). And since lying is a mortal sin according to Catholic dogma, the book could be rejected on theological grounds. Or maybe that was just a pretext to make Greene persona non grata in Rome--to keep him from spying on them? I don't really know. I'm going to have to break down and read Sherry one of these days.

[Pompey Bum]

Regarding voting, I tried to vote and it said I was not allowed. Maybe I'm too new. Or maybe it's because I'm black. But how would the computer know?

I don't know, EZ. We had a religious propaganda bot the other day that somehow knew Ecurb was weak and didn't use evidence. It's getting to be like I, Robot in here these days.

As far as the voting goes, I think it sucks, but I guess them's the rules. :-(

Graham Greene was an interesting character, wasn't he? Maybe we should read his biography instead. lol

Well, since his biography (by Norman Sherry) weighs in at just over 1300 pages, we're probably safe in saying that 1) he was an interesting character; and 2) we won't be reading his biography on LitNet.

[easy75]

It's nothing to do with being black, yellow, white or any other colour but I believe it's based on the number of posts
a member has submitted.

I was only joking! I like to joke. I am not to be taken seriously.

[Pompey Bum]

I was only joking! I like to joke. I am not to be taken seriously.

Aw, I knew you weren't really black!

Actually I still think it's rotten you can't vote. Next time we have one of these, PM me your choice and I'll vote it for you. We can alternate that way until you have enough posts to vote for yourself. Until then, at least we'll both have .5 votes. Seriously. We noobs have to stick together, right?

[Emil Miller]

I think you're right, especially when the convert wants to tell his newly chosen orthodoxy how to get things right. If you've read Sherry (which I have not), you may know that there is was a story that went around that Greene's conversion was never sincere, but cynically calculated--as part of his alleged work for British intelligence? I never quite got the story. And while I don't think that it's generally accepted, neither is it considered a looney conspiracy theory--more of an ugly rumor no one wants to talk about.

I have just been re-reading the chapter Sherry wrote about Greene's spying activities in MI6 under Kim Philby. Interestingly, he used actual events within the organisation as the basis for Our Man in Havana, and Wormold is based on a real man who was using the service to extract money for imaginary agents. Philby, of course, was a Soviet double agent eventually unmasked when he defected to the former USSR.
Sherry suggests that Greene's resignation from MI6 was because he had come to suspect that his friend was a traitor but didn't want to be a part of any activity that might have exposed him.
You may be right about the Vatican being concerned over the possibility that Greene might have been used to spy on them. After all, the British suspected them of being in sympathy with Germany and they probably had one of the best secret services in the world
.

[easy75]

Aw, I knew you weren't really black!

Actually I still think it's rotten you can't vote. Next time we have one of these, PM me your choice and I'll vote it for you. We can alternate that way until you have enough posts to vote for yourself. Until then, at least we'll both have .5 votes. Seriously. We noobs have to stick together, right?

Heehee.
Thanks Pompey! That is a nice gesture. I will have to get posting. Also I got a copy of The Power & The Glory and plan to start this weekend.

[byquist]

One of my top 3-4 films of all times. Could watch it once a week and always find new stuff. Favorite line: "I cannot form an opinion" in Viennese accent of course -- Dr. Vinkle.