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Thread: The Camphill Village Movement

  1. #16
    Registered User Jackson Richardson's Avatar
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    Nasty. However just because someone is taken up by violent thugs, doesn’t mean their work is to be ignored.

    I had a friend who was an impassioned Marxist and socialist. He loved Wagner’s operas and was very interested in Nietzche’s philosophy, anti-semites both.

    Steiner’s ideas are unhelpful for quite other reasons. He did however believe learning disabled should be educated in the same system as ordinary children and were to be treated with respect. I was shocked when I briefly volunteered to help at a local council home for learning disabled children how they were treated – not with any cruelty but not to be taken seriously.

    The Nazis, of course, would have regarded them as decadent and destroyed them.
    Previously JonathanB

    The more I read, the more I shall covet to read. Robert Burton The Anatomy of Melancholy Partion3, Section 1, Member 1, Subsection 1

  2. #17
    Registered User NikolaiI's Avatar
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    This is a wide-spread group dedicated to the philosophy that many groups of people are not human -

    and many other facets of their philosophy are identical with Nazism - all that is light and airy is good, all that is dark is bad; taken to such an extreme that they do not allow their children to use black crowns; they believe all the other groups such as "Blacks" and "reds" and "Yellows" are subhuman.

    Anything you say which makes the issue less clear or more confusing is only aiding their cause, Jonathan B.

    Was this of any help in clarification of the issue?


    I could say I wish it didn't exist - I could say I wish it could be ignored. . It would be far more pleasant for me, personally, to ignore it.


    By the way, I would perhaps say, you are losing ground with me fast, that is, as a disinterested observer.

  3. #18
    Registered User Clopin's Avatar
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    Nietzsche was certainly not an anti semite, rather he was anti anti-semite.

    Whether Steiner had some unsavory views personally is irrelevant considering whether or not these Camphill Village schools actually do some good, as Johnathan is suggesting.

    Also throw a dart at a list of famous names, important thinkers etc from say, 1950 back and there's very good chance you're going to hit someone who said or believed things which are currently very much out of fashion, that doesn't mean you can ignore or denounce everything written by these people.
    Last edited by Clopin; 12-17-2014 at 02:22 PM.

  4. #19
    Registered User Jackson Richardson's Avatar
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    Neo Nazis may quote Steiner, but they wouldn't last a day in a Steiner community such as I knew, with all that organic, vegetarian food and Bach's preludes and fugues played on the lyre.

    I am highly critical of Steiner, I hope you've noticed, and would like to discuss some of my experiences.
    Previously JonathanB

    The more I read, the more I shall covet to read. Robert Burton The Anatomy of Melancholy Partion3, Section 1, Member 1, Subsection 1

  5. #20
    Registered User NikolaiI's Avatar
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    The movement is dedicated to the ideology that evolution is reflected in the colour of your skin, and that "Blacks," "reds," and "yellows" are all inferior "races," while the blond-haired, blue-eyed "Aryans" are the supreme race. This idea led to the Holocaust, and you'd better be sure that if you don't want it to happen again, you should not encourage that idea.

    Anything you do to white-wash it is only helping them. There are no doubts about what this is. Or about what it leads to. Goodbye. You are insane if you think that the idea of Aryan supremacy, and the rest, is anything less than dangerous and evil.

    Everything you say to obfuscate the issue is irrelevant. They quote him - you white wash him, and apologize for him - you will find no traction here. He was a leader during that time - not just a follower. If you are aware of how ideas spread, you would you know that to help these people is wrong. Adios.

  6. #21
    Registered User Clopin's Avatar
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    I don't think that the Waldorf or Camphill movements are dedicated to the idea that 'Aryan's' are the supreme race. You sound like some overly emotional idiot to me.

    Speaking of the holocaust, I know of one group of people who certainly do teach their children that they are the members of a special and 'favoured' race. Oho I would love to see you have a go at all of Judaism! Wouldn't want to be a hypocrite now would you?

  7. #22
    Registered User Jackson Richardson's Avatar
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    There have been many significant and influential philosophers and thinkers in Western culture: Plato, Aristotle, Augustine of Hippo, Thomas Aquinas, Calvin, Rousseau, Marx, Freud and others. They had definite ideas how existence was and how humans and human society should behave. But even if you disagree with their conclusions (and they can’t all be right) you can relate to their concepts as we construct our own understanding.

    Rudolf Steiner certainly thought he was in that league and probably thought he knew better than any of them. But he isn’t. He doesn’t provide any insights or concepts relevant in other contexts. He provides a whole package of religious ritual, architecture, music, art, gardening, education, cooking and whatever. You don’t have to be a catholic to get something from Aquinas or a socialist to get something from Marx. But you can’t get anything from Steiner unless you are an anthroposophist.
    Previously JonathanB

    The more I read, the more I shall covet to read. Robert Burton The Anatomy of Melancholy Partion3, Section 1, Member 1, Subsection 1

  8. #23
    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanB View Post
    Neo Nazis may quote Steiner, but they wouldn't last a day in a Steiner community such as I knew, with all that organic, vegetarian food and Bach's preludes and fugues played on the lyre.

    I am highly critical of Steiner, I hope you've noticed, and would like to discuss some of my experiences.
    I don't know much about Steiner. I can see how NikolaiI could view the racial interpretation of karma and reincarnation as, well, racist. I have a similar distaste for the Hindu caste interpretation of karma and reincarnation.

    What were some of your experiences?

  9. #24
    Registered User NikolaiI's Avatar
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    I would stipulate that he was actually insane, so, not just harmless, but actually quite harmful. This is one of his views, couched within a heap of others, quite similar.

    ◊ “The French are committing the terrible brutality of moving black people to Europe, but it works, in an even worse way, back on France. It has an enormous effect on the blood and the race and contributes considerably toward French decadence. The French as a race are reverting.” [18]


    When I saw such quotes as these, I was horrified, but I wasn't confused - it is the tip of the ice-berg. Jews, "Reds," "Blacks," and oriental peoples, are all lower stages of evolution in his mind, and the blond-haired, blue-eyed "race" is the supreme one. The fact that he was a leader in Germany, promoting these views on a large scale in Pre-World-War-1 Germany indicates he and his followers were part of the problem, not part of any solution.

    Secondly - the descendant organizations are not divorced from him, but there on the contrary seems to be extremely strict control over many things. I know less about the Camphill Villages, but they are essential another branch of the same group. In the schools, every day there is a Steiner study session.

    I am going to take a while off, because it is very painful for me to think of such things, and the convoluted insanity of the whole thing is not easy to deal with.

    Best of life and peace to you all, and protection from harm. . .

  10. #25
    Registered User Jackson Richardson's Avatar
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    NicholaiI –

    I can see you are very distressed about all this and I won’t post anything further here. I've made comments on my time at a Camphill community here and on the Theosophy thread if YesNo is interested.

    I am very concerned indeed at the move to the right across the world, putting the blame for society’s ills on the outsider. In the UK, there is increasing support for UKIP and its implied racism so that all politicians feel obliged to commit themselves to restricting immigration. There’s the Tea Party movement in the USA and the Republican Party is getting more and more aggressive and insular.

    With all these worrying trends, Anthroposophy, I would suggest, is not a big player.
    Previously JonathanB

    The more I read, the more I shall covet to read. Robert Burton The Anatomy of Melancholy Partion3, Section 1, Member 1, Subsection 1

  11. #26
    Registered User Clopin's Avatar
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    Blah blah, all non liberals are evul. Totally man.

    Also what exactly about Ukip is racist? They don't want open border immigration and that's fine, check out Switzerland for a country that is difficult to immigrate to; is this because the Swiss government is racist? Should they repeal their immigration laws in your opinion?
    Last edited by Clopin; 12-19-2014 at 08:51 PM.

  12. #27
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