Who is Jesus Christ?

[HCabret]

No one believes any of this drivel. Not one person on the face of the earth believes the drivel of their respective religion. No one believes in Jesus or Allah, because the stories are patent garbage that should have been dismissed long ago, childrens' stories.

So you're a mind reader with the ability to gauge someone else's sincerity on demand? Sounds like hocum pocus nonsense to me.

Let's see. Has scholarly concensus ever been wrong? No, I guess not. Which must be why scholars everywhere always agree.

Do you have any evidence to counter scholarly consensus or are you being anti-intellectual just to sound cool?

Religious hamsters worldwide keep yawping on what they want to believe, not what they do believe. None of them believe it. After all, how could they? How could anyone? This Christian or Moslem fairytale is correct out of all the thousands of creation myths primitive man dreamed up.

why focus on just those two religions?

While we are at it, let's get rid of the notion of intelligent design. It is not a scientific theory. There is nothing to teach. What do such idiots want, a shoutout at the beginning of each class to intelligent design? I pledge allegiance to the notion of intelligent design...one nation under god...

how is this relevant to the topic of this thread?

I believe in intelligent design because I am a mathematician. I like to say that the only people who actually do believe in intelligent design are mathematicians. Why do I not believe in Jehovah or Allah, then? Because I said intelligent design.

Same as above.

Anyone who puts their faith in the words of some goatherds from four thousand years ago who ate spoiled cheese and had some visions is a mere coward. These goatherds had no special connection or understanding of the cosmos. How do I know? I can read their words.

Are you god? It sounds like you have all the answers.

[desiresjab]

So you're a mind reader with the ability to gauge someone else's sincerity on demand? Sounds like hocum pocus nonsense to me.

Do you have any evidence to counter scholarly consensus or are you being anti-intellectual just to sound cool?

why focus on just those two religions?

how is this relevant to the topic of this thread?

Same as above.

Are you god? It sounds like you have all the answers.

I know you live for the argument. My first imprssionm of you was a snapping wolverine.

I am God, yes. I am also a mind reader. The higher the IQ the easier it is for me to read the mind. At 185 you are a cinch, since you have spilled the well guarded secret that your IQ is one of the top several hundred in the United States. Congratulations, your IQ beats a wolverine! I do not even have to ask what you are doing wasting your time on here with the likes of me. You like to mix with Gods. You are a social climbing social warrior. Cheers.

[HCabret]

I know you live for the argument. My first imprssionm of you was a snapping wolverine.

My friend, you are the one the declared no religious person, now or ever before, has ever held a sincere belief concerning their religion. If that statement is not an invitation for confrontation, I don't know what is.

I am God, yes. I am also a mind reader.

I'm happy that you think this highly of yourself, but I would very much like to know if you have any actually evidence to back up either of these claims.

The higher the IQ the easier it is for me to read the mind. At 185 you are a cinch, since you have spilled the well guarded secret that your IQ is one of the top several hundred in the United States. Congratulations, your IQ beats a wolverine! I do not even have to ask what you are doing wasting your time on here with the likes of me. You like to mix with Gods. You are a social climbing social warrior. Cheers.

Huh? Did I miss something?


What do you have against people with sincerely held religious beliefs?

[desiresjab]

My friend, you are the one the declared no religious person, now or ever before, has ever held a sincere belief concerning their religion. If that statement is not an invitation for confrontation, I don't know what is.

I'm happy that you think this highly of yourself, but I would very much like to know if you have any actually evidence to back up either of these claims.

Huh? Did I miss something?


What do you have against people with sincerely held religious beliefs?

Nothing against the people but plenty against what you call sincerely held religious beliefs. God has already told you there is no such phenomenon as people actually believing that I exist and that I behave as I have been accuratley portayed in holy texts throughout the world, a world that I was good enough to create. I also created those holy texts, but humans are still skeptical of that. All of them, not just some of the people. I gave them critical reasoning so they could doubt. The reason for that was I wanted to test their faith against puny science and logic. It makes the punishment more satisfying. My Moslems have severed heads. My Christains have cloaked my enemies in wood and set them akindle. That proves the system works well enough because I have plenty of unfaithful to punish.

My goat herders were divinely inspired when they copied my holy will from memory. Every blasted thing in my books is true, including pi equals exactly three. And yes, I hear every weak prayer, and act on them commensurate with the Faith of the supplicant. So far, no one has had enough faith, except Job and ol' Abe and some of my boy's disciples. If people had some faith I might answer a few prayers. It is my prerogative. Sure I tried a good butt kicking here and there. I showed the Sodomites a thing or two. Absolutely, I do genocide. I am the one God, am I not? Let me explain something, those Amorites & Canaanites & Ba-shan-ites & Midianites & Perrizites & Hivites & Jebusites & Makkedahites & Hebronites & those inhabitants of Libnah & Lachish & Eglon & Debir--got exactly what they deserved, down to the man, woman & child. Don't tell me my business, because I know genocide, I throw a pogrom like no one else. I am famous for it. Okay,... so I did it more than a few times. It was all necessary, dictated by divine logic. I do not mean to slight my Hindus or Jainists or Rosicrucians in this account. They kill for me, at least they say it is for me. That is not the complaint. The complaint is no one actually believes in me. I have said this plainly. I said in my books all men are sinners, none deserving of my grace. Yet I sent my own boy down to be nailed to a snag and suffer for you. Don't you get that? Such a simple concept. What is there to not understand? If you want something done right, send your son to slaughter, it's tried & true. It would have worked if I had really wanted it to. You see, I have other motives you cannot comprehend.

The good thing is, I know the outcome in advance, since I am God. I recently made an expansive addition to hell. So, you think Syrians flooding into Greece is something, do you? Wait until I fling you to your new lodgings in my basement, if you want to see some squalling hordes suffer.

You would like to ask why I created the universe in the first place, but that is enough revelation for today. If you want more I expect some practiced teeth gnashing from you. Don't get shy now. I want those lips foaming with fury, then we will see about the laws of physics and arithemtic. They were separate creations, of course.

[HCabret]

Nothing against the people but plenty against what you call sincerely held religious beliefs.

So you want to make it illegal to have sincerely held religious beliefs?

God has already told you there is no such phenomenon as people actually believing that I exist and that I behave as I have been accuratley portayed in holy texts throughout the world, a world that I was good enough to create.

which god?

I also created those holy texts, but humans are still skeptical of that.

i am skeptical of anything which lacks evidence backing it up. I have zero proof that you have ever written any text, let alone one of holy stature.

All of them, not just some of the people. I gave them critical reasoning so they could doubt. The reason for that was I wanted to test their faith against puny science and logic.

whats wrong with science? why are atheists so adverse to the scientific method?

It makes the punishment more satisfying. My Moslems have severed heads. My Christains have cloaked my enemies in wood and set them akindle. That proves the system works well enough because I have plenty of unfaithful to punish.

what's a "christain"?

My goat herders were divinely inspired when they copied my holy will from memory.

goat herders? huh?

Every blasted thing in my books is true, including pi equals exactly three.

whats the name of your book? can I buy it on amazon? is there at least an e-book copy? or do I just have to take it on faith that you actually have written a book.

And yes, I hear every weak prayer, and act on them commensurate with the Faith of the supplicant.

why is "Faith" capitalized?

So far, no one has had enough faith, except Job and ol' Abe and some of my boy's disciples.

huh?

If people had some faith I might answer a few prayers.

I'm really confused. You've lost me. What does this have to do with the topic of this thread?

It is my prerogative. Sure I tried a good butt kicking here and there. I showed the Sodomites a thing or two. Absolutely, I do genocide. I am the one God, am I not? Let me explain something, those Amorites & Canaanites & Ba-shan-ites & Midianites & Perrizites & Hivites & Jebusites & Makkedahites & Hebronites & those inhabitants of Libnah & Lachish & Eglon & Debir--got exactly what they deserved, down to the man, woman & child. Don't tell me my business, because I know genocide, I throw a pogrom like no one else. I am famous for it. Okay,... so I did it more than a few times. It was all necessary, dictated by divine logic.

?

I do not mean to slight my Hindus or Jainists or Rosicrucians in this account.

Jains reject deities.

They kill for me, at least they say it is for me. That is not the complaint. The complaint is no one actually believes in me. I have said this plainly. I said in my books all men are sinners, none deserving of my grace. Yet I sent my own boy down to be nailed to a snag and suffer for you. Don't you get that? Such a simple concept. What is there to not understand? If you want something done right, send your son to slaughter, it's tried & true. It would have worked if I had really wanted it to. You see, I have other motives you cannot comprehend.

There is very little about this post which I comprehend.

The good thing is, I know the outcome in advance, since I am God.

which god? Are you not an atheist?

I recently made an expansive addition to hell.

which hell?

So, you think Syrians flooding into Greece is something, do you? Wait until I fling you to your new lodgings in my basement, if you want to see some squalling hordes suffer.

so you're against immigration?

You would like to ask why I created the universe in the first place, but that is enough revelation for today. If you want more I expect some practiced teeth gnashing from you. Don't get shy now. I want those lips foaming with fury, then we will see about the laws of physics and arithemtic. They were separate creations, of course.

what's "arithemtic"?

[Eupalinos]

desiresjab, your view is as anthropocentric as the ones you are mocking. What do you know of justice, this human-conceived paradoxical abstraction that even under ideal circumstances could only ever be partial? All you've done is show an atheist position based on the supposed injustice of God or gods of religions is no less ego- and anthropo-centric. IF by all appearances the forces of the universe seem to us malevolent, indifferent, contradictory, whimsical, reckless, it is the height of all absurdity for some species of ape to lament and moan about it. This excess is part of the Faustian self-absorbed madness of modern consciousness.

[desiresjab]

You are doing poorly enough that I can simply ignore you now. Anyone who asks me what a Christain is to merely point out a spelling oversight is not worth the effort of a relpy.

[desiresjab]

desiresjab, your view is as anthropocentric as the ones you are mocking. What do you know of justice, this human-conceived paradoxical abstraction that even under ideal circumstances could only ever be partial? All you've done is show an atheist position based on the supposed injustice of God or gods of religions is no less ego- and anthropo-centric. IF by all appearances the forces of the universe seem to us malevolent, indifferent, contradictory, whimsical, reckless, it is the height of all absurdity for some species of ape to lament and moan about it. This excess is part of the Faustian self-absorbed madness of modern consciousness.

I think I got it. A species of ape should never lament or moan. To you, this conveniently includes questioning the existence of God. Better not do that, because you are an ape. Instead, we apes should keep praying faster, eh?

I fully expected squallers. What you really want to do is defend religion, but you are afraid. You are afraid those you can now get support from against my wicked views would abandon you as just another religious "sapster." If you hate atheists, lad, I am the wrong guy. I am an agnostic.

What's his name that I just responded to insinutates I would like to outlaw religion. His insurance was a question mark at the end of his sentence. Outlawing religion would do more harm than good by actually strengthening religious fervor, the very thing I want to shake. It has to be voluntary.

Religion has never accomplished anything useful that could not be acquired on pragmatic grounds in a secular society. Go ahead and name what it has accomplished that could not have been attained without religion.

[Eupalinos]

Most of the summits of art would not have been attainable in a secular society. Name a text from a predominately secular society to compare with the Iliad, the dialogues of Plato, the Commedia, Hamlet, etc. I could make similar lists for music, painting, architecture and so on. The death of religious feeling has shown itself to be also the death of culture. Let me be clear: I see no way back to genuine religious feeling. I am agnostic too and art can't be bluffed. The pretense of religious feeling is not a replacement for the real thing. We are stuck where we are.

As to the first point: your list of atrocities was fraught with the petty outrage of anthropocentric absorption. You did not reference any consequences of the existence of humans on anything other than humans. And there is a long tradition of blaming the cosmos for what we do to one another, which, yes, I think is indefensibly idiotic, personally; even though it wasn't your main point it was very present in what you wrote.

[HCabret]

You are doing poorly enough that I can simply ignore you now. Anyone who asks me what a Christain is to merely point out a spelling oversight is not worth the effort of a relpy.

This is a literature forum. Correctly spelling words, or at least taking the time to read over your posts before publishing, them is vital to the entire enterprise of this forum (or at least editing them ex post facto). Unlike you, I am not a mind-reader, and can only base my interpretations of what you write on what you have actually written. Words have meaning; if I don't know a word, I tend to ask for clarification. If you choose not to respond to my posts any longer for whatever reason, that is fine, but that will not prevent me from either responding to your posts or to anyone else's posts.

[HCabret]

I think I got it. A species of ape should never lament or moan. To you, this conveniently includes questioning the existence of God. Better not do that, because you are an ape. Instead, we apes should keep praying faster, eh?

the existence of which god?

I fully expected squallers. What you really want to do is defend religion, but you are afraid. You are afraid those you can now get support from against my wicked views would abandon you as just another religious "sapster." If you hate atheists, lad, I am the wrong guy. I am an agnostic.

Are those you disagree with not allowed to defend any particular religion and/or the concept of religion?

What's his name that I just responded to insinutates I would like to outlaw religion. His insurance was a question mark at the end of his sentence. Outlawing religion would do more harm than good by actually strengthening religious fervor, the very thing I want to shake. It has to be voluntary.

What's wrong with "religious fervor"?

Religion has never accomplished anything useful that could not be acquired on pragmatic grounds in a secular society.

Which religion?

Go ahead and name what it has accomplished that could not have been attained without religion.

which religion?

[Eupalinos]

Since I used the unfortunate phrase 'religious feeling', I want to add to my post above HCabret's last two that I would guess the religions whose works can result in great metaphysics, philosophy, and art-making above all, are based in false reasoning, and NOT irrationalist 'feeling', which is mostly a rearguard action and which I'm ready to believe leads to little except evil.

[desiresjab]

Hey, brains, how many secular societies have their been in the history of the world? You have no argument.

[desiresjab]

Yes, I am so sorry, H, that I misspelled a word. I have undermined the entire forum and no doubt it will now collapse, all due to me and the transposition of two letters. How can I express my grief? How can I adequately express my sorrow to those who have never misspelled? You got me. I think I will just go hang my head.

[HCabret]

Yes, I am so sorry, H, that I misspelled a word. I have undermined the entire forum and no doubt it will now collapse, all due to me and the transposition of two letters. How can I express my grief? How can I adequately express my sorrow to those who have never misspelled? You got me. I think I will just go hang my head.

A little dramatic, don't you think? I was simply expressing my position in favor of properly spelling words, as well as the process of editing one's work before publishing it. Part of this forum's function is to promote practices such as proper spelling and proofreading.

I am sorry if I came across to you as a prick for suggesting that you spell words correctly, but I will continue to advocate for proper spelling in all areas of this forum, regardless of any criticism I may receive for doing so.