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Thread: Life Givers Versus Life Snatchers.

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    Lightbulb Life Givers Versus Life Snatchers.

    Peace be on you…..Prophets of God are Life Givers because they bring teachings which teach morals and spirituality which connects believers to true source of life Who is God. Then, there are various life-snatchers. Some of them are those who spread immorality in societies that kill souls of people. Furthermore, there are those who use name of God and kill people physically.

    Holy Quran commands believers to respond to Allah and the Messenger to get life. (Ref: ch 8 , v 25).

    Prophets teaches followers by practicing Divine education. That is why, Hazrat Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) said about her husband, the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him), that his morals were (according to) the Holy Quran.

    If believers want to have love of Allah, they have to follow Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h.), as said in ch3, v 32, Holy Quran.

    Holy Quran tells that the enmity to a nation should not let one to do injustice; one should not shed others’ blood for no reason; one should pay rights of Creation; Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h.) is the Mercy for all people regardless of religion and nation in full colour of Allah’s attribute Al Rahman (Who is Merciful to all Creation)…………… All guidance is present in Holy Quran.

    If people claim they are believers but they do opposite to the teaching and they snatch lives of innocent people, it is absolute misguided-ness and ignorance. Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h.) was sent to teach verses and wisdom to ignorant.

    [ch62:v3] ‘He it is Who has raised among the Unlettered people a Messenger from among themselves who recites unto them His verses, and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and wisdom, although they had been, before, in manifest misguidance.

    [ch62:v4]’And among others from among them, who have not yet joined them. He is the Mighty, the Wise.’

    Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h.) was foretold that religious leaders of his religion in latter days would not pay their duties. Instead of guiding believers to righteousness, they would become the worst of creature under the heavens, they would start be the the source and sink of mischief and disputes. At that time, Allah the Exalted would send Holy Prophet’s devotee with the title Promised Messiah and Mahdi for peaceful revival and to give life. (Ref: Bukhari, Mishkaat, Ibne Majah). The news of coming of such Reformer is basically given in the 2nd of above verses i.e.

    [ch62:v4]’And among others from among them, who have not yet joined them. He is the Mighty, the Wise.’

    [i][Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h.) explained the verse that when faith would go to Pleiades [metaphor for faith going up in skies i.e. loss of faith, a devotee of him would bring it back….Bhukhari]

    Therefore, it is established that current weakness of Muslims was foretold. But remedy was foretold too. Ignorance of first era was dispelled by Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h.) and ignorance in latter days is to be dispelled by followers of his devotee.


    Recently, BBC Radio broadcasted some part of Ahmadiyya Muslim Khalifah’s interview, he told them that his Jama'at / Community is presenting the real teaching of Islam and because of this reason, hundreds of thousands people join the Jama'at each year. When they hear Islam’s life-giving message they join it. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/28774984 @ 15.43 minute]


    Khilafat is that bounty which is bestowed by Allah. It is not achievable by snatching, persecution and killing innocents. True Khilafat gives life.

    ........
    ........
    Ref: Based on Ahmadiyya Muslim Khalifah's words.
    Last edited by YALASH; 08-21-2014 at 11:19 AM.
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    I agree with you, JALASH, and your Quran's teaching that nobody has the right to take innocent people's lives.

    My question about Quran (which I haven't read yet) doesn't concern this topic you are talking about here, I hope you won't mind. Does the Quran preach reincarnation? I've read that the Bible's certain parts (I think it is John) could be understood as preaching reincarnation, although it is disputable, not openly expressed. And there is a certain church from 13th century, in which Jesus was depicted dressed in Buddha's gown, what to me is a sign, an insinuation of christians' belief in reincarnation (since Buddhism, as we all know, believes in it, i.e. it seems to be their idea). Kabbalah is also said to suggest reincarnation.

    Nice post, thanks.
    Last edited by free; 08-22-2014 at 04:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by free View Post
    I agree with you, JALASH, and your Quran's teaching that nobody has the right to take innocent people's lives.

    My question about Quran (which I haven't read yet) doesn't concern this topic you are talking about here, I hope you won't mind. Does the Quran preach reincarnation? I've read that the Bible's certain parts (I think it is John) could be understood as preaching reincarnation, although it is disputable, not openly expressed. And there is a certain church from 13th century, in which Jesus was depicted dressed in Buddha's gown, what to me is a sign, an insinuation of christians' belief in reincarnation (since Buddhism, as we all know, believes in it, i.e. it seems to be their idea). Kabbalah is also said to suggest reincarnation.

    Nice post, thanks.
    Peace be on you. Thanks for your kind words. May God bless you.


    Holy Quran tells about numerous pure attributes of God and asks:

    " Say, ‘We will adopt the colour of Allah; and who is better than Allah in colour, and Him alone do we worship.’ " [ch2:v139]

    [The word 'sibghah' of Allah is used in Arabic of above verse which also means religion of Allah.]



    Messengers of Allah comes to teach people about the ways of Allah. They essentially copy the attributes of Allah in their morals and spirituality and teach it by their own example. They do not become God but they start to reflect His properties at human level. This like opening a window in front of Sun, the room will be lit. Not because room has its own light but it is reflection. A mirror will be far more reflective.


    Prophets and Messengers and other pure people who cleanse their thoughts, deeds and bosom fully and has not impurity left, they imbibe attributes of God at human level. In other words they spiritually get lost in God. One always find such metaphors in poetry --- the infusing of beloveds. But is never in real sense, a Messenger is always a human, he is never ever a God, though sometimes, his body movements, his pointing, his seeing, his hearing gets a flavour from God. It is the philosophy of miracles [the unknown of a time is shown, it may not be a miracle for latter people, for them new miracles are shown] extraordinarily.



    When Prophets / Messengers [they are same: By virtue of being sent to people, he is Messenger and by virtue of saying prophecies, he is Prophet] takes people under their wings of love and training, people start to colour of spiritual effects [like magnetic effects] of the Prophet who actually he had taken from God. That is why, some disciples are of very high order in every religions.


    This all is lost-in-love-metaphoric phenomenon. Everyone is independent entity otherwise.


    There is a human faculty of dreams. It is granted for high purpose. The dreams of holy and pure person who thinks and do clean and follow commandment of God, their dreams are much more refined. The dreams of Prophets / Messengers are highly refined they become revelation from God. There are Visions too, called Kashf is Islam; in a Vision, one may see incidences with their open eyes (while the person is physically awake). Some Visions are seen by un-religious people too. Dreams and Visions are given to human so that they under what these things are. But they are not reincarnation surely. In previous scripture, writers mixed actual dreams and Visions with actuality and they became fable latter.


    In Islam, God does not take any physical shape, He does not come as human, His Messengers do not take His form or vice versa, no human takes form of God, Messenger or other human, each soul is independent, souls come from God they do not come back, once gone gone for ever to their Lord, similar soul may come [Elijah was waited to come back, it was example of similar's coming and it turned out to be John the Baptist (Yahya in Quran, on whom be peace), Jesus (Esa in Quran, on whom be peace) is being waited by Muslims and Christians, according to Ahmadiyya Muslims it was a case like Elijah prophecy, actually Jesus was to come in properties metaphorically, not literally; he has come in 1889 in India in Islam -- Ahmadiyya Muslims believe and now his Khilafat continues]


    Everyone has to answer about his / her deeds on the day of judgment. Once people die their physical bodies become part of earth and atmosphere. Their souls return to God, they are saved till Hereafter but each soul gets quick feeling what they are going to get as reward.


    Each one is responsible for themselves. No one takes ones burden as it would be is against Justice and Mercy to punish one for other. Grace of God, right faith and good deeds are vital.


    Coming again and again for salvation is not present in Islam, in fact it was not present in the basic and actual form of any religion. Latter people added subtracted such creed.


    We come from God, we are expected to pay His rights, rights of people, rights of self, right of all creation with love, then we complete our time and by the time our soul return to our God, we are expected to have imbibed in His colour at human level as much we could. Then have life in Hereafter, wrongdoers will spent time in corrective facility [hell] and eventually come out to start journey in paradise. The Pious ones will start life in paradise, whose bounties continues always, these bounties are not seen by us in world, they can just be hinted about. The top most bounty is the nearness of beloved God.


    [54:55] Verily, the righteous will be in the midst of Gardens and streams,
    [54:56] In the seat of truth with an Omnipotent King.

    Hopefully, humbly speaking, I feel, you have the answer now. You can quench thirst at various sections of alislamDOTorg. You can find translation and commentaries of Holy Quran in there too.

    Good wishes.
    Last edited by YALASH; 08-23-2014 at 10:15 PM.
    Peace be on you and everyone. Online Books on Moral and Spiritual Reforms.

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    Thank you, YALASH. A very nice and clear explanation. I am not a believer of any religion, but I understand people who are. Once I went to a church to listen to some lectures with an interesting topic and I felt what a religion meant to people. It was a great feeling, really.

    Best wishes to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YALASH View Post
    Holy Quran tells that the enmity to a nation should not let one to do injustice; one should not shed others’ blood for no reason...
    What if followers of jihad think they are doing justice by killing Christians? Their reason might be that heretic Christians will not get into heaven, and will keep potential Moslems from an eternity of bliss, so surely it is reasonable to give the Christians a little pain by lopping of their heads, so that many Moslems can then spend eternity in bliss.

    Of course the Christian "extremists" use exactly the same argument to go on crusades against Islam.

    Note I put "extremists" in quotes because it's usually thinkers central to the tradition who inspire such appalling genocide, e.g. St Thomas Aquinas in the Christian sphere. "Moderates" are generally not really Christians or Moslems, they are just like most people "after an easy life". But when their young think deeply into the tradition they often see it's true implications, it's demand for jihad, and that's when some, then, unfortunately volunteer to go on jihad or crusade rather than going the one step further and rejecting religion, because as Christopher Hitchens said, "RELIGION IS POISON".

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    Quote Originally Posted by mal4mac View Post
    What if followers of jihad think they are doing justice by killing Christians? Their reason might be that heretic Christians will not get into heaven, and will keep potential Moslems from an eternity of bliss, so surely it is reasonable to give the Christians a little pain by lopping of their heads, so that many Moslems can then spend eternity in bliss.
    Peace be on you.
    Perhaps you mean, 'abusers' of concept of Jihad.....If they are really followers of Jihad against non-Muslims, then why they always fight with each other? Why not canals of milk and honey flow in their cities? Why do not they are at the forefront of science and invention as they once were?

    Quran says: [5:70] "Surely, those who have believed, and the Jews, and the Sabians, and the Christians — whoso believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, on them shall come no fear, nor shall they grieve."

    Thus it acknowledges the pious people of Books previous to Quran. These are the ones, to whom true message of Islam has not reached but yet they have God in their hearts, and they practice the true parts of their religions, and they realize they are accountable one day.

    According to Ahmadiyya Muslim such killings of non-Muslims is no Islam. It is plane error.

    Lets suppose the non-Muslims are the heretics ones, they are mentioned in Quran too. e.g.

    [21:27] "And they say, ‘The Gracious God has taken to Himself a son.’ Holy is He. Nay, they are only honoured servants."

    Such fact is mentioned at various places, but nowhere it is said to kill them because of their views. Judgment Day is for such matters.



    Quote Originally Posted by mal4mac View Post
    Of course the Christian "extremists" use exactly the same argument to go on crusades against Islam.

    Note I put "extremists" in quotes because it's usually thinkers central to the tradition who inspire such appalling genocide, e.g. St Thomas Aquinas in the Christian sphere.
    Reason is a faculty which is possessed by God with full perfection. Revelation is a truth too. They have to join hands.......as the source is same God. [online Book : " Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and Truth" by Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad , 4th Ahmadiyya Khalifah]

    A true believer in Islam is commanded by God to reflect on making of universe.

    [3:191]"In the creation of the heavens and the earth and in the alternation of the night and the day there are indeed Signs for men of understanding."

    [3;192]"Those who remember Allah while standing, sitting, and lying on their sides, and ponder over the creation of the heavens and the earth: “Our Lord, Thou hast not created this in vain; nay, Holy art Thou; save us, then, from the punishment of the Fire."

    (Ref: alislam.org/quran)


    Quote Originally Posted by mal4mac View Post
    "Moderates" are generally not really Christians or Moslems, they are just like most people "after an easy life".
    These terms are short in giving full sense. Practicing believer or non-Practicing believer are their. If they a practicing believer, what kind of practice they do? Senseless or sensible? According to true spirit and model of Base-Prophet or according to latter days pseudo-clergies?

    Quote Originally Posted by mal4mac View Post
    But when their young think deeply into the tradition they often see it's true implications, it's demand for jihad, and that's when some, then, unfortunately volunteer to go on jihad or crusade rather than going the one step further and rejecting religion, because as Christopher Hitchens said, "RELIGION IS POISON".
    Allow me to see differently please..... When people of eastern religions were migrating to west, there were many reasons [still they are migrating]; lack of peace in homelands, poor economy, education......etc.

    BUT soon after them, the senseless clergy thought that their subjects have left them and no more money and power is left, they too migrated with bags full of hatred and bigotry....At that time west did not use filter and let all in....There they made schools which taught hate on the name of Jihad.....The children you mentioned are due to the effect of those wrotten clergies who use name of Merciful God to do acts of non-Mercy to innocents.

    Injustice at all level has no excuse too.

    People reject religion when it fall short of solving their problem and do not help them meet God through practically morality and spirituality.

    True Islam provide all solutions with prayer and pen. In this era, opponents do use sword against faith thus there is no need to use sword against them. This is the era of prayer against Godlessness and pen against ignorance, that is what Ahmadiyya Muslims strive for under Khilafat.
    Last edited by YALASH; 08-26-2014 at 12:11 PM.
    Peace be on you and everyone. Online Books on Moral and Spiritual Reforms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YALASH View Post
    Peace be on you.
    Perhaps you mean, 'abusers' of concept of Jihad.....If they are really followers of Jihad against non-Muslims, then why they always fight with each other? Why not canals of milk and honey flow in their cities? Why do not they are at the forefront of science and invention as they once were?

    Quran says: [5:70] "Surely, those who have believed, and the Jews, and the Sabians, and the Christians — whoso believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, on them shall come no fear, nor shall they grieve."

    Thus it acknowledges the pious people of Books previous to Quran. These are the ones, to whom true message of Islam has not reached but yet they have God in their hearts, and they practice the true parts of their religions, and they realize they are accountable one day.

    According to Ahmadiyya Muslim such killings of non-Muslims is no Islam. It is plane error.

    Lets suppose the non-Muslims are the heretics ones, they are mentioned in Quran too. e.g.

    [21:27] "And they say, ‘The Gracious God has taken to Himself a son.’ Holy is He. Nay, they are only honoured servants."

    Such fact is mentioned at various places, but nowhere it is said to kill them because of their views. Judgment Day is for such matters.





    Reason is a faculty which is possessed by God with full perfection. Revelation is a truth too. They have to join hands.......as the source is same God. [online Book : " Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and Truth" by Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad , 4th Ahmadiyya Khalifah]

    A true believer in Islam is commanded by God to reflect on making of universe.

    [3:191]"In the creation of the heavens and the earth and in the alternation of the night and the day there are indeed Signs for men of understanding."

    [3;192]"Those who remember Allah while standing, sitting, and lying on their sides, and ponder over the creation of the heavens and the earth: “Our Lord, Thou hast not created this in vain; nay, Holy art Thou; save us, then, from the punishment of the Fire."

    (Ref: alislam.org/quran)




    These terms are short in giving full sense. Practicing believer or non-Practicing believer are their. If they a practicing believer, what kind of practice they do? Senseless or sensible? According to true spirit and model of Base-Prophet or according to latter days pseudo-clergies?



    Allow me to see differently please..... When people of eastern religions were migrating to west, there were many reasons [still they are migrating]; lack of peace in homelands, poor economy, education......etc.

    BUT soon after them, the senseless clergy thought that their subjects have left them and no more money and power is left, they too migrated with bags full of hatred and bigotry....At that time west did not use filter and let all in....There they made schools which taught hate on the name of Jihad.....The children you mentioned are due to the effect of those wrotten clergies who use name of Merciful God to do acts of non-Mercy to innocents.

    Injustice at all level has no excuse too.

    People reject religion when it fall short of solving their problem and do not help them meet God through practically morality and spirituality.

    True Islam provide all solutions with prayer and pen. In this era, opponents do use sword against faith thus there is no need to use sword against them. This is the era of prayer against Godlessness and pen against ignorance, that is what Ahmadiyya Muslims strive for under Khilafat.
    does your brand of Islam require submission to god? Is unquestioning obedience to god required?

    Even god has an unmanagble god complex. I have free will and refuse to submit to anything that is not me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HCabret View Post
    does your brand of Islam require submission to god? Is unquestioning obedience to god required?

    Even god has an unmanagble god complex. I have free will and refuse to submit to anything that is not me.
    Peace be on you.

    It is not realized that everyone, believer or non-believer, is submitting to God.


    As well written encyclopedia needs a writer, well made inter-related universe need a Maker.


    When we open the encyclopedia, we follow its Will how to read things, but we are free to absorb and use the information till the Professor asks us to sit in exam for an eventual result.


    Living in a universe made by God with double processes of creation plus guide evolution and the physical Laws, we are under the laws of God, we cannot stop earth's various motions, even we do not want to stop our heartbeat. If it stopped, we do our best to restart it [permission within Will of God] but if it do not restart [it is final Will of God]

    Quran [ch3:v84]Do they seek a religion other than Allah’s, while to Him submits whosoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him shall they be returned?

    Will of God is His commandments and directives which are for the good of people themselves. Will of God is not something which create fear and terror. It helps , it resolve problems, it eases life:

    --- require people to do good,
    --- remove fears and grieves of life,
    --- makes one friend of God.
    --- grant the station to a person that his or her requests / prayers are answered.
    --- mercy of God is with those who listen to God.

    As mentioned in following verses.

    [2:113] Nay, whoever submits himself completely to Allah, and is the doer of good, shall have his reward with his Lord. No fear shall come upon such, neither shall they grieve.

    [4:126] And who is better in faith than he who submits himself to Allah, and he is a doer of good, and follows the religion of Abraham, the upright? And Allah took Abraham for a special friend.

    [2:187]And when My servants ask thee about Me, say: ‘I am near. I answer the prayer of the supplicant when he prays to Me. So they should hearken to Me and believe in Me, that they may follow the right way.’

    [21:91] So We heard his prayer and bestowed upon him John and cured his wife for him. They used to vie with one another in good works and they called on Us in hope and in fear, and they humbled themselves before Us.

    [7:57]And create not disorder in the earth after it has been set in order, and call upon Him in fear and hope. Surely, the mercy of Allah is nigh unto those who do good.

    (alislam.org/quran)

    Inventions comes with instruction manuals, which tells the allowed capacity, allowed range of voltage etc. If we operate things within limits we get benefit or otherwise.....Here we follow Will of companies for our own good.

    Free Will is not fully free. We have limitations , e.g. we cannot raise two legs simultaneously without external help, no matter how much we desire.

    Living in a country require to submit to laws made by people. If one does not like a law, one has mountains to climb before on change it. Practically Free Will is a desire only. Some times one get a brain stroke, he keeps lying on bed, his Free Will desire he should extend arm or leg, but nothing moves due to paralysis........ We are not really Free.

    Besides if such Free Will is there, life will not be able to continue. Things will eat-up each others. Restrictions are needed. [i.e. Will of State]

    God in 'my brand of' Islam [Ahmadiyya Muslims] is Truely Worthy of Worship, One with no associates, Has all pure Attributes, Does not have any weakness, Is Source of all Blessings, His worship tells to pay rights of creation too.

    Good wishes.
    Last edited by YALASH; 08-27-2014 at 11:43 AM.
    Peace be on you and everyone. Online Books on Moral and Spiritual Reforms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HCabret View Post
    I have free will and refuse to submit to anything that is not me.
    You submit to many of the demands of society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YALASH View Post
    Peace be on you.
    Perhaps you mean, 'abusers' of concept of Jihad.....If they are really followers of Jihad against non-Muslims, then why they always fight with each other? Why not canals of milk and honey flow in their cities? Why do not they are at the forefront of science and invention as they once were?

    Quran says: [5:70] "Surely, those who have believed, and the Jews, and the Sabians, and the Christians — whoso believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, on them shall come no fear, nor shall they grieve."

    Thus it acknowledges the pious people of Books previous to Quran. These are the ones, to whom true message of Islam has not reached but yet they have God in their hearts, and they practice the true parts of their religions, and they realize they are accountable one day.

    According to Ahmadiyya Muslim such killings of non-Muslims is no Islam. It is plane error.

    Lets suppose the non-Muslims are the heretics ones, they are mentioned in Quran too. e.g.

    [21:27] "And they say, ‘The Gracious God has taken to Himself a son.’ Holy is He. Nay, they are only honoured servants."

    Such fact is mentioned at various places, but nowhere it is said to kill them because of their views. Judgment Day is for such matters.





    Reason is a faculty which is possessed by God with full perfection. Revelation is a truth too. They have to join hands.......as the source is same God. [online Book : " Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and Truth" by Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad , 4th Ahmadiyya Khalifah]

    A true believer in Islam is commanded by God to reflect on making of universe.

    [3:191]"In the creation of the heavens and the earth and in the alternation of the night and the day there are indeed Signs for men of understanding."

    [3;192]"Those who remember Allah while standing, sitting, and lying on their sides, and ponder over the creation of the heavens and the earth: “Our Lord, Thou hast not created this in vain; nay, Holy art Thou; save us, then, from the punishment of the Fire."

    (Ref: alislam.org/quran)




    These terms are short in giving full sense. Practicing believer or non-Practicing believer are their. If they a practicing believer, what kind of practice they do? Senseless or sensible? According to true spirit and model of Base-Prophet or according to latter days pseudo-clergies?



    Allow me to see differently please..... When people of eastern religions were migrating to west, there were many reasons [still they are migrating]; lack of peace in homelands, poor economy, education......etc.

    BUT soon after them, the senseless clergy thought that their subjects have left them and no more money and power is left, they too migrated with bags full of hatred and bigotry....At that time west did not use filter and let all in....There they made schools which taught hate on the name of Jihad.....The children you mentioned are due to the effect of those wrotten clergies who use name of Merciful God to do acts of non-Mercy to innocents.

    Injustice at all level has no excuse too.

    People reject religion when it fall short of solving their problem and do not help them meet God through practically morality and spirituality.

    True Islam provide all solutions with prayer and pen. In this era, opponents do use sword against faith thus there is no need to use sword against them. This is the era of prayer against Godlessness and pen against ignorance, that is what Ahmadiyya Muslims strive for under Khilafat.
    Yalash, that was a wonderful post, in the spirit of true religious tolerance. Thank you!
    Last edited by mona amon; 08-27-2014 at 04:27 AM.
    Exit, pursued by a bear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YALASH View Post
    Peace be on you.

    It is not realized that everyone, believer or non-believer, is submitting to God.


    As well written encyclopedia needs a writer, well made inter-related universe need a Maker.
    Where is your evidence for these statements. And please don't say "the Koran". To me, that's just a book like any other. To me, saying, "Allah exists because it says so in the Koran" is just like saying "Ghosts exist because they appear in a story by Dickens." Where is your evidence for Allah in the world? Where is the evidence for Mohammed being his last prophet? Oops, sorry - YOU don't believe Allah is the last prophet in your particular branch of "Islam". But what makes you think you know better than other branches of Islam, or better than Christians or Buddhists? All religious people are just trying to believe in fairy tales, like children believing in ghosts and goblins 'cause they appear in a book of fairy stories. It's time to grow up and face the evidence (or lack of it...) By removing religion we can get away from all this fighting between religions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YALASH View Post
    Peace be on you.

    It is not realized that everyone, believer or non-believer, is submitting to God.


    As well written encyclopedia needs a writer, well made inter-related universe need a Maker.


    When we open the encyclopedia, we follow its Will how to read things, but we are free to absorb and use the information till the Professor asks us to sit in exam for an eventual result.


    Living in a universe made by God with double processes of creation plus guide evolution and the physical Laws, we are under the laws of God, we cannot stop earth's various motions, even we do not want to stop our heartbeat. If it stopped, we do our best to restart it [permission within Will of God] but if it do not restart [it is final Will of God]

    Quran [ch3:v84]Do they seek a religion other than Allah’s, while to Him submits whosoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him shall they be returned?

    Will of God is His commandments and directives which are for the good of people themselves. Will of God is not something which create fear and terror. It helps , it resolve problems, it eases life:

    --- require people to do good,
    --- remove fears and grieves of life,
    --- makes one friend of God.
    --- grant the station to a person that his or her requests / prayers are answered.
    --- mercy of God is with those who listen to God.

    As mentioned in following verses.

    [2:113] Nay, whoever submits himself completely to Allah, and is the doer of good, shall have his reward with his Lord. No fear shall come upon such, neither shall they grieve.

    [4:126] And who is better in faith than he who submits himself to Allah, and he is a doer of good, and follows the religion of Abraham, the upright? And Allah took Abraham for a special friend.

    [2:187]And when My servants ask thee about Me, say: ‘I am near. I answer the prayer of the supplicant when he prays to Me. So they should hearken to Me and believe in Me, that they may follow the right way.’

    [21:91] So We heard his prayer and bestowed upon him John and cured his wife for him. They used to vie with one another in good works and they called on Us in hope and in fear, and they humbled themselves before Us.

    [7:57]And create not disorder in the earth after it has been set in order, and call upon Him in fear and hope. Surely, the mercy of Allah is nigh unto those who do good.

    (alislam.org/quran)

    Inventions comes with instruction manuals, which tells the allowed capacity, allowed range of voltage etc. If we operate things within limits we get benefit or otherwise.....Here we follow Will of companies for our own good.

    Free Will is not fully free. We have limitations , e.g. we cannot raise two legs simultaneously without external help, no matter how much we desire.

    Living in a country require to submit to laws made by people. If one does not like a law, one has mountains to climb before on change it. Practically Free Will is a desire only. Some times one get a brain stroke, he keeps lying on bed, his Free Will desire he should extend arm or leg, but nothing moves due to paralysis........ We are not really Free.

    Besides if such Free Will is there, life will not be able to continue. Things will eat-up each others. Restrictions are needed. [i.e. Will of State]

    God in 'my brand of' Islam [Ahmadiyya Muslims] is Truely Worthy of Worship, One with no associates, Has all pure Attributes, Does not have any weakness, Is Source of all Blessings, His worship tells to pay rights of creation too.

    Good wishes.
    i did not ask to be created by god. My existence is against my will. Why should I be any nicer to god than god has been to me? God is in constant battle against his own creations who are constantly rebelling.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal4mac View Post
    Where is your evidence for these statements. And please don't say "the Koran". To me, that's just a book like any other. To me, saying, "Allah exists because it says so in the Koran" is just like saying "Ghosts exist because they appear in a story by Dickens." Where is your evidence for Allah in the world? Where is the evidence for Mohammed being his last prophet? Oops, sorry - YOU don't believe Allah is the last prophet in your particular branch of "Islam". But what makes you think you know better than other branches of Islam, or better than Christians or Buddhists? All religious people are just trying to believe in fairy tales, like children believing in ghosts and goblins 'cause they appear in a book of fairy stories. It's time to grow up and face the evidence (or lack of it...) By removing religion we can get away from all this fighting between religions.
    everything is real. The distinction between fact and fiction is all relative.

  14. #14
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    YALASH: Peace be on you.

    It is not realized that everyone, believer or non-believer, is submitting to God.

    As well written encyclopedia needs a writer, well made inter-related universe need a Maker.


    mal4mac : Where is your evidence for these statements. And please don't say "the Koran". To me, that's just a book like any other. To me, saying, "Allah exists because it says so in the Koran" is just like saying "Ghosts exist because they appear in a story by Dickens." Where is your evidence for Allah in the world?

    YALASH:Here I mean, even no-believers submit to God. How?. They have to follow laws of nature, unknowingly God made it. So one way or other, they are following God, whether they realize or no.

    As a well made system is not made or run by itself, similarly well made, deeply-full-of- knowledge-based making of universe is due to Maker. It is the stage 'should be Maker'. Religion tells Who is that Maker.


    mal4mac :Where is the evidence for Mohammed being his last prophet? Oops, sorry - YOU don't believe Allah is the last prophet in your particular branch of "Islam". But what makes you think you know better than other branches of Islam, or better than Christians or Buddhists? All religious people are just trying to believe in fairy tales, like children believing in ghosts and goblins 'cause they appear in a book of fairy stories. It's time to grow up and face the evidence (or lack of it...)

    YALASH:According to Ahmadiyya Muslims understanding for Holy Quran and Sayings of Holy Prophet (s.a.w.):
    --Adam was the first Prophet in the evolution of religious message given by God.
    --Then Prophets kept comming, some with Book, some not with the Book.
    --Religious message was completed at Holy Quran, and Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) was Last Prophet with Book [which contains true essentials of all truths]
    --He and Quran gave news about coming of Latter day's reformer of the order of subservient Prophet with title, Messiah and Mahdi,
    --He and Quran mentioned CONNECTED signs of the Era of coming of reformer, these are fulifled. The Promised Reformer has come to revive faith with peace.



    mal4mac :By removing religion we can get away from all this fighting between religions.

    YALASH:Godless soviet era could not do that.
    Fight among religions is wrong.
    Revival is needed, so Ahmadiyya revival is on time. Welcome.
    Peace be on you and everyone. Online Books on Moral and Spiritual Reforms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YALASH View Post

    As a well made system is not made or run by itself, similarly well made, deeply-full-of- knowledge-based making of universe is due to Maker. It is the stage 'should be Maker'. Religion tells Who is that Maker.
    Living creatures are "well made systems" but no one made them, there is overwhelming evidence that they evolved from simpler creatures.

    YALASH:Godless soviet era could not do that [remove religions].
    But the best Western Democracies are moving quickly toward that:

    http://www.salon.com/2012/08/29/eigh...be_an_atheist/

    Only 17% religious in Sweden and Denmark! And are there any more civilized countries? Compare with countries where religion is strong - Northern Ireland, Iraq, Israel, Sri Lanka,...

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