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Thread: images versus words

  1. #1
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Lightbulb images versus words

    what do you most look for or go for when reading a book or a poem?

    images/visuals
    or
    words/sound/feelings



    I go for the latest at all times.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  2. #2
    Bohemian Marbles's Avatar
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    I can't distinguish the two groups without making a big mistake. I look for a succession of artistically woven words that release images and ideas into my mind without explicitly mentioning them.
    But you, cloudless girl, question of smoke, corn tassel
    You were what the wind was making with illuminated leaves.
    ah, I can say nothing! You were made of everything.

    _Pablo Neruda

  3. #3
    Voice of Chaos & Anarchy
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    I look for ideas, concepts that are expressed in words. Actual images are wonderful, and well written words evoke images very nicely, but both have their places. When it comes to communication, I think that words are better, because one word is worth a thousand images, if it's the right word.

  4. #4
    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    Words, whether as poetry, prose or just spoken communication, are meaningful sounds. There are no images involved although a reader or hearer might visualize something if they are so inclined. Whatever they visualize, it is not in the words, but in their minds.

    The acceptance of the belief that poetry contains images has led to elevating babble over sound and meaning. However, babbling, rather than communicating, to another person is usually viewed as rude or abusive unless one is an infant or senile or crippled in some way. Those claiming to be poets too often get away with it as well.

    Sound is actually more interesting. Words require time for their delivery. Images are nearly immediate. Words seem more fleeting than images and yet they form the basis of language. This is not to say that images aren't valuable, but they are not as fundamental as sounds are when it comes to communication.

  5. #5
    Bohemian Marbles's Avatar
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    ^ Yes, I believe images do not exist outside of, or other than, or apart from...words.

    Words, not things.

    Words, not ideas.

    All images, things and ideas will suggest themselves through the ebb and flow of your words.
    But you, cloudless girl, question of smoke, corn tassel
    You were what the wind was making with illuminated leaves.
    ah, I can say nothing! You were made of everything.

    _Pablo Neruda

  6. #6
    Ecurb Ecurb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesNo View Post
    Words, whether as poetry, prose or just spoken communication, are meaningful sounds. There are no images involved although a reader or hearer might visualize something if they are so inclined. Whatever they visualize, it is not in the words, but in their minds.

    The acceptance of the belief that poetry contains images has led to elevating babble over sound and meaning. However, babbling, rather than communicating, to another person is usually viewed as rude or abusive unless one is an infant or senile or crippled in some way. Those claiming to be poets too often get away with it as well.

    Sound is actually more interesting. Words require time for their delivery. Images are nearly immediate. Words seem more fleeting than images and yet they form the basis of language. This is not to say that images aren't valuable, but they are not as fundamental as sounds are when it comes to communication.
    Written words are NOT "meaningful sounds". They are, in fact, VISUAL IMAGES. When the reader sees (i.e. forms a visual image of) the word "cat", he can either visualize a furry animal, or imagine hearing the sound of the word "cat", or choose some other option.

  7. #7
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecurb View Post
    Written words are NOT "meaningful sounds". They are, in fact, VISUAL IMAGES. When the reader sees (i.e. forms a visual image of) the word "cat", he can either visualize a furry animal, or imagine hearing the sound of the word "cat", or choose some other option.
    I could not agree with that.
    words are sounds.
    images are visuals like a painting.
    why imagine/visualise a cat sleeping when we already know what cat looks like when it is asleep?
    what is the achievement of visualisng something we already know of?
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  8. #8
    Ecurb Ecurb's Avatar
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    Spoken words are sounds. Written words are not (they are, in fact, visual images). This is simply an obvious and self evident truth.

  9. #9
    Voice of Chaos & Anarchy
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    Written language is a different system of communication from the spoken language. Although most languages use symbols that are untended to mimic the spoken language; that is not true of all languages. Most notably, Chinese has a system of written symbols that are designed to inform a reader of the image , but the symbols can be used for languages that have different words for that image or idea. Mandarin and Cantonese are not mutually intelligible as they are spoken, but they use the same written language.

    On a more fundamental level the human brain doesn't manipulate words or images; it appears that it works with ideas that can be translated as necessary (don't hold me to this, because this field is changing constantly).

  10. #10
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecurb View Post
    Spoken words are sounds. Written words are not (they are, in fact, visual images). This is simply an obvious and self evident truth.
    i am not sure i agree here either.
    a written word is a meaning with a sound to imagine it a picture would be to strip it off its own valuable feeling/truth.
    anyhow what fact do you have that says a word is a visual image?
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  11. #11
    Ecurb Ecurb's Avatar
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    We SEE written words; we HEAR spoken words. Why is this hard to understand?

  12. #12
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecurb View Post
    We SEE written words; we HEAR spoken words. Why is this hard to understand?
    I personally think we READ words. we SEE things people pictures we don't read them.
    it is hard to comprehend a picture to a word to me.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  13. #13
    Ecurb Ecurb's Avatar
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    How can we read written words if we don't see them? Don't we have to see them first? (I suppose blind people can read Braille, but they still don't HEAR the words, they feel them.)

  14. #14
    Bohemian Marbles's Avatar
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    We have a crisis of definition here.

    If water is wet, then written words are not sounds but symbols through which we perceive images. Words become sounds only when they are uttered but their function (symbols leading to images) remains the same.
    But you, cloudless girl, question of smoke, corn tassel
    You were what the wind was making with illuminated leaves.
    ah, I can say nothing! You were made of everything.

    _Pablo Neruda

  15. #15
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecurb View Post
    How can we read written words if we don't see them? Don't we have to see them first? (I suppose blind people can read Braille, but they still don't HEAR the words, they feel them.)
    we see them in order to read them and not to imagine them.
    we see a painting because it has colours and shapes instead of words.
    we don't read a painting we look at it because we can see it.
    here is a question:
    why a paint someone with their eyes closed
    when you can paint them with their eyes opened?
    Last edited by cacian; 11-03-2014 at 04:26 PM.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

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