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Thread: why do we need God?

  1. #1
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Exclamation why do we need God?

    is it because one feels lonely lost and aimless?
    one does no longer understand what life is for or about one is focused thoughts and locus vehemently on God.

    or is it because
    God is the ultimate for our sins and weaknesses?
    we need to pass the blame onto a God when we have finished blaming ourselves.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  2. #2
    Registered User Frédéric Moreau's Avatar
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    That is a difficult question. I am an agnostic and I suffer a lot, actually two of the few reasons that keep me away from suicide (aside from the love of my family and a sense of effrontery, as if I had no right to commit it on account of my lack of actual suffering, like that of the Bulgarian soldiers blinded by Basil II, or the victims of the savagery of Yugoslavia) are both the fear of the existence of God and the possibility of his none-existence, given that I felt that the unique way to end with human cruelty is through his intervention, but somehow the remnant of suffering is still there and, therefore, it exists and still tortures feeble souls like mine. The unique way to erase it should be to delete every trace of this ghastly world. I don't know if I have been clear. I decided not to read History again because I ended up shattered.
    Last edited by Frédéric Moreau; 07-01-2014 at 10:35 AM.

  3. #3
    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    We need God (or Gods or Goddesses) as much as we need to breath and be aware, but all that means is that no matter how much we try to get rid of our need for them, they keep coming back.

    The only way to get rid of them would be to "delete every trace of this ghastly world" as Frederk_Moreau suggests. There was a movie a few years ago called Melancholia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melancholia_(2011_film) that showed one way the universe could get rid of us. However, I don't think suicide actually works. For it to work, there has to be no reincarnation or afterlife. So, one has to make sure there is nothing like that before trying it otherwise one might be worse off than one started. Of course there are other reasons to choose life, but then one is breathing, and aware, and looking at others and then at Others.

  4. #4
    Registered User Frédéric Moreau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesNo View Post
    We need God (or Gods or Goddesses) as much as we need to breath and be aware, but all that means is that no matter how much we try to get rid of our need for them, they keep coming back.

    The only way to get rid of them would be to "delete every trace of this ghastly world" as Frederk_Moreau suggests. There was a movie a few years ago called Melancholia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melancholia_(2011_film) that showed one way the universe could get rid of us. However, I don't think suicide actually works. For it to work, there has to be no reincarnation or afterlife. So, one has to make sure there is nothing like that before trying it otherwise one might be worse off than one started. Of course there are other reasons to choose life, but then one is breathing, and aware, and looking at others and then at Others.
    I agree totally with you. It is impossible to explain it better.

  5. #5
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesNo View Post
    We need God (or Gods or Goddesses) as much as we need to breath and be aware, but all that means is that no matter how much we try to get rid of our need for them, they keep coming back.
    I admit I see that but you have not actually said a good reason.
    we need light and we need dark as much as we need to breath as well as eat.
    does that mean our needs for the universe to connect is the same as that of god's needs?
    I could not live without light and water and oxygen.
    these are my priorities right? these stands more importance we depend on them.
    god is surely not the same.

    The only way to get rid of them would be to "delete every trace of this ghastly world" as Frederk_Moreau suggests. There was a movie a few years ago called Melancholia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melancholia_(2011_film) that showed one way the universe could get rid of us.
    if we do not need them we do not need to get rid of them, it seems that it is a work in reverse the more we want it the more we want to push it away and so is it futile to need?
    the universe could never get rid of humans. it is an impossibility. I do not see it.

    However, I don't think suicide actually works. For it to work, there has to be no reincarnation or afterlife. So, one has to make sure there is nothing like that before trying it otherwise one might be worse off than one started. Of course there are other reasons to choose life, but then one is breathing, and aware, and looking at others and then at Others.
    suicide is tricky and unwanted. to precipitate life to end may adjourn afterlifes theories. I am speculating.
    natural death is in accordance with the nature of things. it is suggests harmony life lasts longer.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  6. #6
    Registered User Frostball's Avatar
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    We don't.

  7. #7
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostball View Post
    We don't.
    and don't we all
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  8. #8
    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    I think of God as manifested in the process of our breathing. Since we need to breathe we get God whether we like it or not.

    We may actually need God in order to breathe. Certainly we need the body to function on its own. How does it do that? One can say there is some unconscious and random mechanism that makes that work. Or one can say the means is conscious. Both are metaphors. Since we ourselves are conscious, the conscious metaphor makes more sense.

    Of course, I am making all of this up as I go along. I don't have any specific religious tradition that I have to conform to so I can pick and choose what comes to mind. This also means I don't have any religion to rebel against.

    I agree with you about suicide. We're here. We might as well enjoy it even when we suffer.

  9. #9
    Registered User Frostball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    and don't we all
    Some, without a doubt, believe they do need a god or gods. But certainly not all. Certainly not me.

  10. #10
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesNo View Post
    I think of God as manifested in the process of our breathing. Since we need to breathe we get God whether we like it or not.
    that is an interesting theory.

    We may actually need God in order to breathe. Certainly we need the body to function on its own. How does it do that? One can say there is some unconscious and random mechanism that makes that work. Or one can say the means is conscious. Both are metaphors. Since we ourselves are conscious, the conscious metaphor makes more sense
    to me we make sense but we can see talk hear each other.
    we cant see god so it does not make sense.
    that is my simplest theory about

    Of course, I am making all of this up as I go along. I don't have any specific religious tradition that I have to conform to so I can pick and choose what comes to mind. This also means I don't have any religion to rebel against.
    making things up is a positive attitude to me it means we care about things and so we even imagine to create ideas.

    I agree with you about suicide. We're here. We might as well enjoy it even when we suffer.
    we are here and there is no going back.
    suffering is symptomatic of our insecurities. we have many and we don't know how to undo them.
    it is easier then one thinks because when one wants one can. fear I think is a main factor that we feel we suffer.
    it is that that makes us suffer not us and not what is within us. I believe we are logical and the way out is to find courage to expose fear and rid of it.
    it is a habit of mine to always say to myself:
    I know fear
    but it does not know me
    and so I wont suffer but it will.
    Last edited by cacian; 07-01-2014 at 02:10 PM.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  11. #11
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostball View Post
    Some, without a doubt, believe they do need a god or gods. But certainly not all. Certainly not me.
    true.
    and those who need god would need more then that to give me a rod to pull them out when they are got.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  12. #12
    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    we cant see god so it does not make sense.
    We can't see a lot of stuff, at least, not without some help from technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    we are here and there is no going back.
    That's how I see. I am amazed how much I take for granted the fact that I'm here at all. It really doesn't make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by cacian View Post
    suffering is symptomatic of our insecurities. we have many and we don't know how to undo them.
    it is easier then one thinks because when one wants one can. fear I think is a main factor that we feel we suffer.
    it is that that makes us suffer not us and not what is within us. I believe we are logical and the way out is to find courage to expose fear and rid of it.
    it is a habit of mine to always say to myself:
    I know fear
    but it does not know me
    and so I wont suffer but it will.
    Interesting: "suffering is symptomatic of our insecurities". Sounds true. How does fear suffer?

  13. #13
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesNo View Post
    We can't see a lot of stuff, at least, not without some help from technology.
    I am not sure. I think we see everything we need to see to live and survive.
    we see nature
    we see light and dark
    we hear sound
    we see people each other
    so we are in effect complete with everything we need.
    the stuff we do not see I am guessing we do not need.
    we can see as far as the moon and back and that is as good as it gets.

    That's how I see. I am amazed how much I take for granted the fact that I'm here at all. It really doesn't make sense
    agreed and if we are it means we have made it what comes next can only get better.
    it may not happen now but it will happen. I feel positive is a way forward. we take it for granted. I feel we ought to count our lucky stars because sometimes when things get too much we forget.
    sometimes the questions we want answers too are within us close to us but we chose to look away somewhere else because it is easier to think it is far away from us.
    we have learn to accept who we are and until then we won't. I feel there is not that bad after all.

    QUOTE]Interesting: "suffering is symptomatic of our insecurities". Sounds true. How does fear suffer?
    fear we all know but those who feel it does not know them are the one who do better emotionally and physically.
    they are more tolerant of themselves.
    fear suffers in the same way that we do.
    so we acknowledge it to ignore it.
    ignorance is bliss
    and then it learns to go away and one day there is no fear anymore.
    I think it is a mental process that the mind goes through by assimilating logical doable facts.
    one reasons with oneself and eventually learns to manage.
    control is about logic
    and fear is illogic.
    Last edited by cacian; 07-01-2014 at 04:52 PM.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  14. #14
    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    Maybe all the stuff we do see and need is God projecting Herself (or Himself) (or Itself) out there for our benefit. Just trying to rationalize a need for God.

    That "fear is illogic" makes sense.

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    We need god because we don't know for sure how has the world been created. Until we find it out we will ascribe the creation to something as unknown as god. But those who prefer to stay eternal children will always stick to the idea of an unknown, unknowable, unreachable, untouchable idea of divinity.

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