Personal matter

[chevalierdelame]

Of course it's not silly. I didn't say it was. I meant, what I'm saying was maybe ridiculous. And psychology's helped me in a way.

[YesNo]

The condition of Spanish youth is perfectly explained in this short:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1v-bCyeIR4

Unfortunately, I'm no better with the ladies than you are. So I won't bother giving advice. However, that video was funny! The heavier one reminded me of my niece.

[Iain Sparrow]

Of course it's not silly. I didn't say it was. I meant, what I'm saying was maybe ridiculous. And psychology's helped me in a way.

I was agreeing with you, and that what you said was neither silly or ridiculous; that understanding psychology is a great place to start when dealing with our own problems. I'd also add that reading books on philosophy is another way in which to deal with such things. It's certainly helped me at various times in my life.

[Frédéric Moreau]

First of all, thank you for your help.

[/QUOTE]Listen Frederic, you need to get yourself a book on Cognitive Therapy. When I was your age, I was helped considerably by an approach used to help people overcome self-consciousness and shyness. The author/psychologist, Albert Ellis, would give his patients assignments. He would ask you to do something completely ludicrous, so people would stare at you. For obvious reasons, I would advise completing this assignment somewhere other than in your home town. Anyway, his theory was that when you were stared at often enough by people with critical eyes, you would develop a degree of mental toughness.[/QUOTE]

I am not very fond of psychologists. When I was younger I went to several of them and I didn't receive much help: I was being bullied at school then and all I needed was a little bit of care and understanding. Instead, I had to spent hours playing chess with the psychologist, who only wanted to earn her living. Moreover, she didn't give me back a book I lent her.

The other experience with psychology was when I took a test of intelligence at school. According to its results, I was a dumb child and my reading comprehension and vocabulary were poor.

In spite of the aforesaid, I did somehow your assignment. During my adolescence, a very tough adolescence, I tried to do every sort of eccentricities in order to draw the attention of everybody. I found funny, for instance, to talk to myself aloud when I was in the bus, or to invent rare languages and feign to be a foreigner. Sometimes I even spoke Spanish with English accent -I didn't know anything of English then- to seem sophisticated. But I never did such things before people I know.

[/QUOTE]Another alternative is to read the Existentialists. They have a way of putting things in perspective. Obsessing about death, nonbeing, existential insecurity and inauthenticity will have an effect on your consciousness. If you decide not to slit your throat, you won't fret about social matters to such a large degree.[/QUOTE]

I like existentialists quite much, though when I read them I always end up feeling a sort of dizziness.

[/QUOTE]Yes, but the best thing to do is find out, and for that you need to talk to her. I know it's easier said than done, but... well there it is.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. But I never see her, and when I do it she is always with friends, a horrible kind of friends. And there is another problem, since I don't use social media it seems difficult to me to keep in touch with her.

[/QUOTE]I read some reviews of this book and an Amazon preview. Most people have interpreted the story in a different way, that is, that Castel "consistently misreads, overinterprets or simply imagines events in a vicious circle in which his own madness feeds on itself to the point that he destroys the very person who most profoundly understands him."
But in the passage you quoted, it says that he "had naïvely believed that she was moving in a tunnel parallel to mine, when in fact she belonged to the wide world, the unbounded world of those who did not live in tunnels; "
" And then, while I kept moving through my passageway, she lived her normal life outside, the exciting life of people who live outside, that curious and absurd life in which there are dances and parties and gaiety, and frivolity. "
So I don't think you can say that she actually understood him. [/QUOTE]

I don't have said that.

[/QUOTE]It is written in a beautiful style. Rather reminds me of the "I am a desert talking to myself" style of Violette Leduc.[/QUOTE]

Sabato seems to me one of the best writers of the South American boom, and sadly one of the worst rated. He lived almost a hundred years and only wrote three novels, given that everything he wrote ended up burned in the trash can. I suggest that you read also Alejo Carpentier, Borges, Vargas Llosa, Javier Marías, Antonio Muñoz Molina, Martín Santos and Juan Benet -this last was the Spanish Faulkner-. They are among the greatest writers of contemporary Spanish literature.

[chevalierdelame]

I agree with you. But I never see her, and when I do it she is always with friends, a horrible kind of friends. And there is another problem, since I don't use social media it seems difficult to me to keep in touch with her.

I know. I used to fantasize about, what if he (the perfect guy I met last year) and I were alone in this world. I suppose this is immature and naively romantic.

I don't have said that.

Actually, when I said 'you' I was referring to the people who wrote the reviews. Silly way to speak, I suppose. I'm sorry and English isn't my first language either.

Sabato seems to me one of the best writers of the South American boom, and sadly one of the worst rated. He lived almost a hundred years and only wrote three novels, given that everything he wrote ended up burned in the trash can. I suggest that you read also Alejo Carpentier, Borges, Vargas Llosa, Javier Marías, Antonio Muñoz Molina, Martín Santos and Juan Benet -this last was the Spanish Faulkner-. They are among the greatest writers of contemporary Spanish literature.

Thanks, I'll try to find and read them.

I have this idea about psychology which may be prejudiced or just plain wrong. If psychology is like Newtonian physics, literature is like Einsteinian physics. The first is all very well to build a bridge or a road. But to differentiate between time and space, the finite and the infinite it's no use. So maybe psychology can help people with claustrophobia or OCD, but there are times when it is not sufficient. (I don't know a lot about physics, so sorry if this analogy is wrong.)
Lord Wotton wonders in 'Dorian Gray' "whether we could ever make psychology so absolute a science that each little spring of life would be revealed to us." Psychology does not take into account the fact that people are as irrational and illogical as they can be without being actually insane.

No offense anyone please, it's just an idea.

[Iain Sparrow]

Thanks, I'll try to find and read them.

I have this idea about psychology which may be prejudiced or just plain wrong. If psychology is like Newtonian physics, literature is like Einsteinian physics. The first is all very well to build a bridge or a road. But to differentiate between time and space, the finite and the infinite it's no use. So maybe psychology can help people with claustrophobia or OCD, but there are times when it is not sufficient. (I don't know a lot about physics, so sorry if this analogy is wrong.)
Lord Wotton wonders in 'Dorian Gray' "whether we could ever make psychology so absolute a science that each little spring of life would be revealed to us." Psychology does not take into account the fact that people are as irrational and illogical as they can be without being actually insane.

No offense anyone please, it's just an idea.

Psychology is a more exact science than you give it credit for, and it does indeed take into account irrational thought. We're hardwired to think irrationally, it's a product of evolution. We are by far the most emotional creature in the Animal Kingdom, and emotions often lead to irrational thought and actions. In fact no other animal can lay claim to irrational thought, it's purely human.

[Frédéric Moreau]

Hello everyone,

Unfortunately, until April 14th I am not very much available: I am on vacation, mainly in order to please my family, and I am now in the south of Spain, surrounded just by the kind of people I loathe: tourists. Here I don't even have an appropriate WIFI connection; the place is lousy -though I fear that most of people would like it-: the classic southern Spanish coast town. The heat is unbearable; I need cold to be fine, I can't do anything because of this torrid evil heat. Moreover, there is no bookstore around and I can't read due to my outrage. I should have stayed at home.

I hate that sort of dreams. Once I dreamed that I was strolling across a beach –a rare dream, given that I don’t like beaches- with a girl on whom I had a crush then. When I woke up I wanted to kill myself, it made me realize of how much love I lacked. I am a romantic man, and that is my disgrace.

Months ago I watched all the movies about Antoine Doinel, by Truffaut, and I realized that he was almost like me, even physically –I am a short man either, quite pale and black haired-. But what finally torn me down was seeing how his sentimental life was being gently developed, I don’t know how to explain it, but that made me hope, for a while, that also mine could eventually heighten. When the movie finished, I was altogether shattered.

Excuses for my English, I am writing hastily and thank you for your help, I will try to answer you.

Frédéric

[Calidore]

Good grief. How exactly do you expect to find this love you lack when you seem to despise and complain about everybody and everything around you:

I am on vacation, mainly in order to please my family, and I am now in the south of Spain, surrounded just by the kind of people I loathe: tourists. Here I don't even have an appropriate WIFI connection; the place is lousy -though I fear that most of people would like it-: the classic southern Spanish coast town. The heat is unbearable; I need cold to be fine, I can't do anything because of this torrid evil heat. Moreover, there is no bookstore around and I can't read due to my outrage. I should have stayed at home.

not likeing either parties or what ominously is called 'fun'

I loathe the game of seduction,

The youngs here only drink, it is horrible.

I know that I have few chances, I am a weird and ridiculous man. When I was sixteen I decided to try to be another young, but I couldn't bear it.

But that's the only thing I miss in my life, it would be somehow so perfect to be real. I am sure that when I finally get an appropriate girlfriend I will be touched by disgrace.

But I never see her, and when I do it she is always with friends, a horrible kind of friends.

You say "I am a romantic man, and that is my disgrace", but how is anyone supposed to see a romantic man through all this bile and venom you throw about, including on yourself?

Important rule: If you want people to like you, you have to show them someone likable. This will require actual effort on your part to see others as different-but-equal rather than different-thus-"horrible".

but that made me hope, for a while, that also mine could eventually heighten.

It certainly can, but just as your current situation didn't just happen to you without any effort on your part, improvement won't either. For example:

That's another problem, I dropped out of High School when I was sixteen, I reckon now that it was a mistake, but it's a little bit late to solve it.

It's never too late. What keeps you from getting a high school equivalency certification?

And there is another problem, since I don't use social media it seems difficult to me to keep in touch with her.

Easy solution: Learn to use social media. You don't need to live on Facebook or Twitter, but you can at least understand them and have a presence.

since I don't know anything about her habits, I find it difficult to force that encounter

You do know something about her habits, namely that she likes clubbing.

I mean that the only way for me to end with lonesomeness is being with a person who shares equal interests, apprehensions and wishes.

This is true. However, you also need to be able to meet their needs. What do you offer?

I want a girl with whom I may talk about interesting subjects.

Again, what are interesting subjects to you? More to the point, how many interesting subjects do you actually have to talk about?

Reality check: You seem to do much less than most people, so you probably have much less interesting to talk about. Do more things, expand your horizons, and you'll have both more to talk about and more people to talk about those things with.

I don't know deeply the girl I am talking about and I am quite sure that if, at length, I realise that she is just another “average girl” I will not like her. My infatuation (in Spanish I would say “enamoramiento”, but that word does not exist in English) is build upon a hope that she may be the girl I need. There is an extraordinary novel by Ernesto Sabato, 'The tunnel', that reflects perfectly this anxiety. The main character is a painter. The story begins when, in one of his exhibitions, he notices a girl becoming aware of a subtle detail in one of his paintings that everybody has ignored. He gently develops an obsession that will end tragically when he realises, after all, of the ordinary girl she really is, I fear and feel the same.

Another reality check: This is some stupendous arrogance. The people around you are not less than you, and looking at them that way is not helping you at all.

[Pumpkin337]

@Calidor Well said!!!

[saralynn]

Calidor....well, someone had to say it.

The approach may be therapy, religion, philosophy, or pharmaceuticals, but a radical shift must somehow occur in his perceptions or he can anticipate a lifetime of misery. The first step is recognizing that our problems and their solution lie within us. Great suffering....and I do believe our friend Frederick is in pain....can either polish or corrode our character. Whether it is a gift or a curse depends solely on us.

[chevalierdelame]

Great suffering....and I do believe our friend Frederick is in pain....can either polish or corrode our character. Whether it is a gift or a curse depends solely on us.

Maybe he should read the 'De Profundis'
Oscar Wilde believed that it could only polish, and well, I don't know which it is. Perhaps it polishes and corrodes at the same time.

I am a romantic man, and that is my disgrace.

Read the romantics, starting with Keats' odes. Their Romanticism is not solely about love, but the aery things like perfection and idealism. What Mathew Arnold called 'an ineffectual angel beating his wings in a void' or something like that. It might be ineffectual but if poets like Keats and Shelley believed in them, it couldn't be very wrong to believe in them yourself. I find them very consoling, specially after I've read something by the existentialists.

P.S. Don't worry so much about the heat and the tourists

[saralynn]

Maybe he should read the 'De Profundis'
Oscar Wilde believed that it could only polish, and well, I don't know which it is. Perhaps it polishes and corrodes at the same time.


Read the romantics, starting with Keats' odes. Their Romanticism is not solely about love, but the aery things like perfection and idealism. What Mathew Arnold called 'an ineffectual angel beating his wings in a void' or something like that. It might be ineffectual but if poets like Keats and Shelley believed in them, it couldn't be very wrong to believe in them yourself. I find them very consoling, specially after I've read something by the existentialists.

P.S. Don't worry so much about the heat and the tourists

All good ideas. Keats letters are especially wonderful. One thing I know with certainty....Frederick should NEVER NEVER read "The Sorrows of Young Werther"!!!!

Then there's Buddhism. He would understand that heat and tourists and all the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune are simply "manure for enlightenment"

[Iain Sparrow]

All good ideas. Keats letters are especially wonderful. One thing I know with certainty....Frederick should NEVER NEVER read "The Sorrows of Young Werther"!!!!

Then there's Buddhism. He would understand that heat and tourists and all the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune are simply "manure for enlightenment"

This has now gone off the deep end.
Our dear Frédéric should finish his education, and find a rewarding job!.. he most definitely does not need to be reading outdated, dreamy poetry by Keats and Shelley; both of whom should be blotted out as overrated, whimsical, silly men who produced overwrought prose that need be read once in school... and then soon forgotten.

Do you really think a woman of substance is ever going to be interested in a guy who dropped out of school, doesn't have a job, and complains about the heat?

It's time for some tough love around here.

[Pumpkin337]

I think the problem is already an excess of literature and what he needs is a dose of reality. There is a place for wafting around like a romantic poet all tragic like and there is a place for pulling yourself together and just getting on with it.

It's all fine and well to model all the angst ridden tragics of yesterday but they weren't the best friends to have around and were pretty messed up, not to mention booze soaked, rum ridden or chasers of the magic dragon - ie they were not people you want to look to for advice, either in their books, or personal lives in how to be happy, win friends and influence people.

One of the essential parts of growing up is realising that the world and every one in it aren't bit players in your own personal tragedy. Most of the time they are too self-absorbed in their own drama to care about yours. Most of the time when you think they are staring and talking about you, what they are actually saying is "Don't look at me! Dear God, please don't look at me!"


So get your nose out of the books and into real life. Look up, look around you instead of morosely contemplating the tragedy you think your life is, get involved, be the kind of friend to others that you would like them to be, for heaven's sake try to find something positive say! About anything! It will transform your life.

[Iain Sparrow]

I think the problem is already an excess of literature and what he needs is a dose of reality. There is a place for wafting around like a romantic poet all tragic like and there is a place for pulling yourself together and just getting on with it.

It's all fine and well to model all the angst ridden tragics of yesterday but they weren't the best friends to have around and were pretty messed up, not to mention booze soaked, rum ridden or chasers of the magic dragon - ie they were not people you want to look to for advice, either in their books, or personal lives in how to be happy, win friends and influence people.

One of the essential parts of growing up is realising that the world and every one in it aren't bit players in your own personal tragedy. Most of the time they are too self-absorbed in their own drama to care about yours. Most of the time when you think they are staring and talking about you, what they are actually saying is "Don't look at me! Dear God, please don't look at me!"


So get your nose out of the books and into real life. Look up, look around you instead of morosely contemplating the tragedy you think your life is, get involved, be the kind of friend to others that you would like them to be, for heaven's sake try to find something positive say! About anything! It will transform your life.

That is so true, so very true.

Life owes us nothing. We will take from it what we put into it.
I find myself thinking back when I was Frédéric's age... my energy was boundless, as was my naiveté, I was always broke and in and out of relationships. But I rarely complained, enjoying the troubled times as much as the good times.