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Thread: God Speaking...anyone listening?

  1. #121
    Registered User Oedipus's Avatar
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    Also, has the thought struck you, that perhaps you are simply projecting your own fear and dislike of atheism, your intolerance, onto atheists?

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesNo View Post
    Now I would like to hear a justification that the current atheistic self-righteousness and defamation of religion is any better than what fueled atrocities in the past.
    Dawkins hasn't killed anyone.

  3. #123
    Registered User mona amon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesNo View Post
    Just to make sure I understand your position, do the terrorists who brought down the Twin Towers in New York over a decade ago represent for you the Islamic religion or just their own wacko natures? In other words, to respond to that terrorism, is it enough to confront Al-Qaeda or was that a reason to be opposed to Islam itself?
    Definitely not Islam's fault, but I'd call the terrorists misguided and brainwashed rather than whacko. The atheist has no 'word of God' to misinterpret, no religious teachers to be misguided by.
    Last edited by mona amon; 10-07-2013 at 05:32 AM.
    Exit, pursued by a bear.

  4. #124
    confidentially pleased cacian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal4mac View Post
    Dawkins hasn't killed anyone.
    and neither has god. people have.
    it may never try
    but when it does it sigh
    it is just that
    good
    it fly

  5. #125
    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mona amon View Post
    Definitely not Islam's fault, but I'd call the terrorists misguided and brainwashed rather than whacko. The atheist has no 'word of God' to misinterpret, no religious teachers to be misguided by.
    I agree that it is not Islam's fault either. However, I don't think that is Dawkin's view. He would blame Islam. Here's a quote from him I referenced to earlier: http://ffrf.org/news/timely-topics/i...me-to-stand-up

    "To blame Islam for what happened in New York is like blaming Christianity for the troubles in Northern Ireland!" Yes. Precisely. It is time to stop pussyfooting around. Time to get angry. And not only with Islam.

    In the interests of fairness, Dawkins, and atheists who agree with him, should be held to the same standards they impose on other religious groups.

    As far as atheists having no "word of God", they do have a literature and Dawkins has contributed to it. They do use metaphors, such as Dawkin's own "selfish gene" and they have myths such as the belief that chance can generate change.

    I know atheists claim they are not a religion, but I seriously doubt that. I will admit that their religion does not contain any god metaphor, but one can then focus on the "universe" to examine their belief system. They certainly believe the universe exists.

    I also know they claim to be scientific, but after 20th century science falsified materialistic determinism through quantum physics, they lost any scientific justification they might have had. This only confirms their status as a religion.

  6. #126
    Registered User Melanie's Avatar
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    Excellent post, YesNo! I'm beginning to think that atheists, unknowingly, look at Dawkins as their God because they follow his book just as Christians follow the Bible or Muslims follow the Koran, etc. What's the difference when describing religion? Some atheists here seem to idolize Dawkins.
    Last edited by Melanie; 10-07-2013 at 11:00 AM.
    Live in the sunshine. Swim in the sea. Drink the wild air ~Ralph Waldo Emerson

  7. #127
    I would argue that there are very few genuine atheists in the world. Most of them are pagans. They tend to always worship something, whether it be sex, science, tv, music, animals, etc.

  8. #128
    Orwellian The Atheist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
    I'm beginning to think that atheists, unknowingly, look at Dawkins as their God because they follow his book just as Christians follow the Bible or Muslims follow the Koran, etc.
    Complete nonsense.

    First off, how does one "follow" Dawkins' books? He does not give any life instructions, he does not prescribe morality and he most assuredly does not say what is right and wrong.

    You are making the identical error to a person who would claim that Clive Cussler is the same as Shakespeare because they both write in English.

    When Dawkins writes a bible and people start following the instructions in it will be the day you can make your comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
    What's the difference when describing religion? Some atheists here seem to idolize Dawkins.
    And you obviously accept the error of your own words, because you've already retreated to "some atheists".

    I would say that hardline Dawkins idolisers make up well under 1% of all atheists. There are definitely a very few people who see Dawkins as some kind of messianic character, but extrapolating anything about atheism or atheists because of that is making the identical error you're complaining he's made regarding islam.


    Quote Originally Posted by SentimentalSlop View Post
    I would argue that there are very few genuine atheists in the world. Most of them are pagans. They tend to always worship something, whether it be sex, science, tv, music, animals, etc.
    A nonsensical generalisation supported solely by a personal view.
    Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."

    Anon

  9. #129
    ^How is it a nonsensical generalization? I am not personally attacking you, by the way. I know nothing about you. But please, elaborate.

  10. #130
    Orwellian The Atheist's Avatar
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    I would have thought it was patently obvious, but here it is again:

    Quote Originally Posted by SentimentalSlop View Post
    I would argue that there are very few genuine atheists in the world. Most of them are pagans. They tend to always worship something, whether it be sex, science, tv, music, animals, etc.
    You say that atheists "always worship something" and give some examples of what you think.

    You offer no evidence beyond your own opinion. Then, if you look at it carefully, it is obvious how nonsensical that statement is. Who "worships" television? Does liking TV programs mean one is worshipping it? How does one worship television? The concept is idiotic, yet you apply it to atheists, while clearly knowing absolutely nothing about what you've gone and typed.

    You also suggest atheists worship animals. In what way? Which animals? Give an example of one atheist anywhere who worships animals. Do veterinarians worship animals?

    Music, ditto - how does one worship music? Did Beethoven & Mozart worship music? (not that they were atheists as far as I'm aware)

    Sex? Sex is the best thing in the universe, but I certainly don't worship it, and as far as I can tell, many atheists tend to do without it, because lots of them are geeks with no interpersonal skills. They might worship it if they ever got any, but I doubt it.

    Even science. I don't know of a single atheist who worships science, and lots of atheists are distinctly anti-science. I'm sure a majority of atheists do accept science as a means of explaining the mysteries of life & the universe, but I'd like you to expand on how they worship a subject or concept.
    Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."

    Anon

  11. #131
    When I say worship, I don't mean nominal atheists go about on their knees and bow before their televisions or pets. What I mean is that most so-called atheists, unbeknownst to them, look for an outlet to complete them. They go after sex, television shows, science, among other things, to fill a void in their lives they cannot explain. Instead of turning to religion, they turn to the material world. Most, not all.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by SentimentalSlop View Post
    ... most so-called atheists, unbeknownst to them, look for an outlet to complete them. They go after sex, television shows, science, among other things, to fill a void in their lives they cannot explain. Instead of turning to religion, they turn to the material world. Most, not all.
    I don't think this idea of "something to complete one" is useful. We are products of evolution, not jigsaw puzzles. There is nothing to complete! Ditto for "void in our lives", I can't see that as a useful concept. We are curious creatures who get bored easily, so all of us (atheists or Christians!) look for activities that are interesting. These include sex, television shows, science, and arts.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal4mac View Post
    I don't think this idea of "something to complete one" is useful. We are products of evolution, not jigsaw puzzles. There is nothing to complete! Ditto for "void in our lives", I can't see that as a useful concept. We are curious creatures who get bored easily, so all of us (atheists or Christians!) look for activities that are interesting. These include sex, television shows, science, and arts.
    Indeed. If you didn't, read Michel Serres on the subject.

  14. #134
    I am sure you can ask any atheist if they've ever felt "incomplete," and I bet almost all of them would say yes to at least one point in their lives. Who hasn't felt that way? Whether you call it incompleteness or a void, it's natural to feel this way and seek out things to fill it. People put their faith into all sorts of material things all the time. I see it everyday, even with those very close to me.

    And it's not merely being interested in something that makes people deify material things--it's the obsessiveness of it. Take someone's tv or internet away from them and they'll flip out, or turn off their football game and they'll raise hell. People have all sorts of things that they'll lose their mind over if it's taken away from them. They look to something material to fill their lives. Without whatever that thing is, they feel threatened.

  15. #135
    Registered User Melanie's Avatar
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    "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." ~Matthew 6:21

    SentimentalSlop is correct that every person has a void deep within. It's the innate longing of the human heart for something outside itself, something transcendent. No one can disagree with that. Ecclesiastes 3:11 refers to God's placing of "eternity in man’s heart." Believers feel God made humanity for His eternal purpose, and only God can fulfill our desire for eternity. Without that fulfillment from God, man attempts to fill it with things other than God. “The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?” Jeremiah 17:9. Solomon said, “The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live…” (Ecclesiastes 9:3). Romans 8:7 says, “The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so”.

    Romans 1:18-22 describes man ignoring what can be known about God and instead worshipping anything and everything other than God...TV, electronic gadgets, sports, hedonism, etc. That part of humanity will never be fully satisfied. They'll find a measure of happiness for a time but Soloman, who had all the riches, success, and power in the world, claimed that it was all in vain and concluded that we should all respect God and keep his commandments "for this is the whole of man" (Ecclesiastes 12:13).
    Live in the sunshine. Swim in the sea. Drink the wild air ~Ralph Waldo Emerson

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